[mdawson]

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Diazruanova wrote:

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Get a life, go out side and do some exercise, get a girlfriend but leave us (me ) along with our naive point of view.

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Diazruanova wrote in response to MycroftHolmesMW:

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?I am not attacking anyone?

You indeed did engage in personally attacking me as your quoted words clearly show. Your ad hominem response to me only serves to prove my point. You have no objectivity because you are directly impacted and when someone posts facts about how production works you dismiss those facts and attack the poster.

[gagandelhi]

thanks again.all your points are well within the rule book.
my objective is to highlight the problem (which is a fact and cannot be denied) and make as many affected people come forward and discuss or maybe atleast get a reaction from apple. coz pls also count the numerous people who got repairs for this problem under extended warranty... again i would repeat it is a widespread FLAW.

since you know numbers then pls also tell us what percentage of people get extended warranties? I am sure this problem has only stuck us lowly beings who didnt extend their warranties?!!!??!?!?!


Please use your imagination and think that this problem has been faced by people with extended warranties also ... (well ofcourse they got repairs and dont care to rake up this issue) so what does that imply ???? that this is a widespread problem. IT IS ONE PROBLEM WHICH HAS OCCURED IN THE 17" IMACS MUCH MORE THAN ANY OTHER PROBLEM. so what does that imply? that its a major flaw which is widespread and the company should ackowledge that. (why is apple deleting threads from their website about this topic??)

Also pls note that most of the imac line problems have been reported on one particluar serial number starting with W860 ... which is apparently manufactured in one particular factory W8 (Shanghai China).

" Lastly, as I stated
before, you are within your rights to complain and you are within your
rights to bring this matter to Apple’s attention ... "

well thats exactly what i/we are attempting. thanks for your point/s but i will always raise my voice/opinion when i believe something wrong has been done.

[Diazruanova]

It seems that the great majority of those with AppleCare, that took their iMacs for repair and had changed the LCD panel for a brand new (of a totally dif. batch), had the problem came back after just one or two weeks and even some of them, had their panel changed for a second time only to have the problem returned again in a very short time, so...

[gagandelhi]

yes true, my research has also thrown up similar results. the
problem doesnt seem to go with the changed LCD but recurs after a short
time even on the new replaced LCD.

i've recently bought a $350
external monitor to attach to my imac, i would have preferred to get my
imac lcd replaced which would have costed me somewhere $450... but
there was no surety that it'd last me more than few months!

[Heian]

{quote}If you want perfect products all the time, then be prepared to spend well in excess of $10,000 for an iMac because the expense that Apple would have to bear in order to achieve that level of quality is most definitely going to be reflected in the market price. Even then a chance of failure still exists.{quote}

MDawson, on this point I think you're misunderstanding what Gagandelhi and the other dissenters want.

Nobody is expecting Apple to manufacture products to such stringent standards that they never fail. On the space shuttle, even a single failure means that people could die, so quality has to be as close as possible to absolutely perfect, whatever the cost.

With mass-produced computers, I don't think people get angry if defective items are shipped, as long as the user eventually gets a working product -- just let them exchange their defective screens for working ones. The 1-year warranty is hardly meaningful if this fault only showed itself after more than a year. The lines on the screens were, at the point of manufacture, guaranteed to eventually happen no matter what the user did.

So the figure of $10,000 is a wild exaggeration. If only 1% of the users have to get new parts put in, or even have to get entirely new iMacs, then the cost becomes 101% of what it is now -- the only change being an extra 1% to cover replacements that people will eventually demand.

[lyndseyoliver]

Hi,

I bought my apple mac in 2005, batch number W8543. As I bought this as a student I was entitled to the extended apple care support. I left university due to my fathers death and took some time out. I started back at university last year and heavily rely on my mac for projects and magazine design (I am a journalism student.) Every product I buy is apple and I have invested a lot of my student loans into their software and hardware. As a struggling mother, I find that buying a mac is usually good value because of their ease of use and the capabilities that they have - however last year I noticed my first horizontal line. Then a month later the next, I now have a total of 27 horizontal lines on my desktop, pink, blue, green, you name a colour, I have it. Having researched into this I have noticed that this is not a one off occasion, this is a very common default that their products seem to display. There has even been a case in france where one gentleman took apple to court for not acknowledging the problem, and refusing to pay for the faulty equipment. Having paid over a thousand pounds for this product to break just outside of its warranty, and then to find that it will cost me #700 to replace the LCD display I have to say I am absolutely disgusted. I will now no longer be purchasing the leopard operating system, because I will not be able to afford to pay for the repairs necessary for my computer. I was also going to purchase a Mac Book Pro this month, but am begrudged to shell out even more money for a computer which will probably break and I will not be able to afford to replace or fix. I have always used mac products, and even talked friends and family to convert as before this I had absolutely no problems whatsoever but will now be taking my business elsewhere, unless they can offer me a free repair on a faulty product that thay have supplied.

[cousinisaac]

MDawson,

Your logic and insight are much appreciated, but unfortunately this might not be as anomalous an issue as you think. Dell users are experiencing the same issues, and Dell has responded in kind. See: http://direct2dell.c...6/19/17774.aspx It seems the affected LCD screens may in fact all come from the same manufacturer in Shanghai, although no one seems to have proven that theory yet. But if you understand manufacturing, then you know that many OEM's source their parts from the same factories, hence the big recall with Sony and Apple batteries a few years back. In that case, the issue was more pressing: safety. In this case, you are correct, Apple is well within their rights not to pay for repairs outside of their warranty. However, Apple has built their business on good will and good design. So when a design flaw is discovered, they would do well to back up their image with a substance, lest they risk their user's loyalty.

Lastly, I wonder how many users have been plugging in the non-grounded travel charger attachment rather than the three-pronged grounded attachment on their power supplies? I read somewhere that vibrations in the screen can cause this issue, and using an ungrounded plug causes my machine to vibrate ever so slightly with electrical current. Just a thought.

[SnottyOne]

Everyone in this discussion TAKE NOTE: rest assured that gagandelhi is almost assuredly (as per your deduction) either
* employed by apple &/or
* somehow derives livelihood from apple &/or
* is simply one of the slavish legion of the hypnotized (by Jobs)
The most telling barometer? Simply close your eyes (go along with me here) & try to actually imagine someone without a vested interest legitimately objecting to sincere efforts to identify, substantiate/document, & publicize a problem?

Why would anyone object vociferously to that?

My personal testimony is that I was the most resistant of mac "converts." Yet I overcame all my own prior observations about mac shortcomings before committing to one for a second office.

Found "used" an immediately pre-Intel 17" which had been purchased for a recent grad, whose classroom needs ultimately dictated a laptop. So, my find was well within warranty; perhaps nine months' worth. Machine virtually unused; all original packaging - exquisitely pristine. Virginal.

After barely a year, I began to observe the 1st dying lcd elements (vertical "stripes," not specific pixels). First gradually, then suddenly (by orders of magnitude), the display began to die. Approx a week ago, I awoke to find over 1/3 of the display vanished/blinking.

We're talking maybe between 500 & 1K hrs usage, here, folks.

One 22" aftermarket lcd expenditure later, I'm back in business, no thanks to apple.

Don't fall for highfallutin' rhetoric about manufacturing & acceptable rate(s) of error. This is a forum for people favorably predisposed to mac. No axes to grind. Computer literate, internet savvy, educated; we know about reasonable rates of failure. Good consumers. Yet note gagandelhi's overreaction.

There wouldn't be an outcry if this were merely anecdotal.

As for extrapolation, gagandelhi, apply this: like any manufacturing defect, for every signature on a petition, dozens more would be on board if they only knew about the petition, where to find it, etc, etc. For every reported display failure, (at least) dozens more have gone unreported in a busy world where there's only time to replace it & keep working...

There's good reason that a petition exists & has so many signatories. I signed immediately upon learning about it, and say "Thank you!!!" for this petition!

[gagandelhi]

Dear SnootyOne,

I dont understand why are you berating me... have you even read my posts? what makes you think i am a beneciary of apple's ??? on the contrary i've also suffered becoz of the verticle line fault on my imac. your extrapolation is exactly the point i've been making against 'mdawsons' apple supportive arguments. pls read my posts then reply.

cheers.

[macnuke]

for some reason.. this thread smells trollish

[Heian]

I agree; SnootyOne, are you sure you're not confusing him with MDawson? If Gagandelhi were working for Apple, he wouldn't be agitiating for them to help their customers out on this issue by digging up a whole pile of old discussions regarding this issue.

[SnottyOne]

ABSOLUTELY; just, just found all posts/replies pointing out slipshod error/mistaken ID on my part.

It is MDawson whose posts are egregious (& motives suspect). While Gagandelhi defends all that is good (in "street" vernacular, u rool, dood).

Please, PLEASE forgive; inadvertent error purelly a typo on this end.

Meanwhile, all spread gospel of the petition!!!

[dscott15]

Just found the posts here regarding the Vertical Lines of Death on the Mac 17" Powerbook displays. Mine just started a few weeks ago (Serial # starting with W85) with a greyed-out band about 2" wide. It suddenly turned solid black yesterday, then decided to become a rainbow of thin vertical stripes. Any suggestions as to what to do aside from paying the local Apple Store £600+ for a new LCD and logic board?

[Diazruanova]

One alternative is to buy and attach an external monitor, way cheaper than paying that amount to Apple.