[quato]

ello, first time for me on this forum.

My wife will be starting Med school in the Fall and we just received this mass email from the IT department regarding the use of Mac computers. I feel like it's more a PC'ers perspective that is not to excited about macs. I'm no IT/Windows Guru, yet have a hard time excepting that I need to go and buy a PC. I've included the entire email but pulled these main two questions out. Hopefully someone can help.

"As of now, the Microsoft network environment (Server 2007) does not recognize Macs. This may change in the future as compatibility issues are being addressed by the respective manufacturers and software updates are made available", is this true?

"The campus will also be implementing collaborative software (Sharepoint 2007) which as of now does not support Mac or Mac networks", is this true?



Origional email.
(Several of you guys have asked about Mac's, so I'm starting a new thread... I'm a PC guy myself. I don't particularly care for them but I know a lot of people who just absolutely love them. If you are
one of them, more power to you.

Periodically I send a memo with updates from my meetings with IT.
Below is an excerpt regarding Mac's from my April memo:

[This is probably the most hotly contested and debated technology
issue on the table.

First, let's start with a history like all good physicians should.
Professor Ma has had to overhaul a grossly
inadequate network. Remodeling something usually doubles the time,
manpower, and capital
requirements because not only do you have to put in the new stuff but
also take out the old. That being
said, there is already a significant demand on current IT resources.
The new network decision was not
made based on anyone's personal preference, but on the basis of what
could be done with available
resources and prioritizing.

Only 7% of campus users use Mac's. The hardware cost to support both
Mac and PC on one network is
ridiculous. Simply put, it doesn't make financial sense to lay out
that much money for so few users.
Also, the current IT staff is not trained to handle Mac's. Further
capital expenditure would be required
for training and certification.

Some people have brought up programs that will allow you to run XP or
Vista on a Mac computer (i.e.
Boot Camp or something like it). That might work, but the overwhelming
likelihood is that it will not. As of now, the
Microsoft network environment (Server 2007) does not recognize Macs.
This may change in the future as
compatibility issues are being addressed by the respective
manufacturers and software updates are
made available.

The campus will also be implementing collaborative software
(Sharepoint 2007) which as of now does
not support Mac or Mac networks.

Future budgets may allow for compatibility. No guarantees.

All incoming freshman students, regardless of program, have been /
will be informed of the network
change.

If you are a Mac user and cannot access the network, the IT department
will loan you a PC based
machine for you to use as long as you are on campus.]

I discussed the Mac issue at length with IT. The discussion got kind
of heated... Some of you guys have brought up "bootcamp." IT told me
that while it does run XP on the surface, the underlying layers are
still Mac and that the driver signatures probably wouldn't be updated
correctly. THEY TOLD ME that the overwhelming probability is that
bootcamp or something like it won't work.

As far as the wifi issue goes... If you can get your Mac to connect
with all the certificates and all, that's great. But the wifi
connects to the server. Furthermore, since you are incoming first
years and have been notified about the PC only status of the network,
the IT department may elect not to loan you a PC laptop should you
need it.

If any of you guys can get your mac's to work on the network, please
let me know so I can inform the rest of the student body who uses
Mac's. It would be a neat trick and should be shared. It would also
put down a lot of complaining...

Chad)

[Quietus_Prime]

Quato,

I just printed out your message and will read it very carefully so I can answer your questions. Based on what I read quickly something seems very odd about this university's IT policy.

Like I said, I will read your message and properly answer. I can't believe that no one has given you any guidance since your original post. There are so many in these forums who could have answered your concerns a lot sooner.

Martin M. Mune

[rab777hp]

The stuff they said on boot camp is a lie. Boot camp runs windows natively, and when it's running the only difference between it and a mac is that it's a mac computer, you can even delete the mac partition of your hard drive and get a Mac that only runs windows.

Also, virtualization is another option, the three virtualization programs out there are

Parallels Desktop

VMware Fusion

VirtualBox

I listed them in the order of best to least best (my personal opinion, there is huge debate between whether Fusion or Parallels is better)

Also, Parallels and Fusion are the same price (they are in constant battle for the market) VirtualBox is free.

Virtualization allows you to virtualize an operating system, running two OS's side by side at the same time. There should be know problems with mac/pc stuff as it is plain old windows.

[Quietus_Prime]

Quato,
I read the email from the university about Macs. Well, where do I start. Oh, yeah! The IT department at that university should be fired because of gross incompetency and mismanagement. But let me elaborate:
The assertion that "the hardware cost to support both Mac and PC on one networkis ridiculous" is in itself rediculous. I have built cross-platform networks with routers, switches, VPN concentrators, etc. and there were no additional costs for extra hardware just for Macs. Last time I checked, Macs connect using the same ethernet that Windows PCs use. My own home network has a Windows 2003 Server, a Windows 2003 SBS, a Mac, and a PC workstation. All of it connected with a Netgear ProSafe Firewall, and a Belkin WAP (my Mac is connected via the WAP.) Oh, yeah, my Mac connects just fine to Active Directory and all the resources from both servers (including the email component of SBS,) but more on that later.

The assertion that "IT staff is not trained to handle Macs." Furthermore it is mentioned that further training and certification will require "further capital expenditure." There is a quite simple solution for this: grab all those people who have been awarded Work Study Program for financial aid and are in a computer related major and put them to work for the semester. The one key requirement that needs to be added to the job description is that they should be proficient on both Macs and PCs.

The assertion that Macs using BootCamp and/or any other virtualization software "might work, but the overwhelming likelihood is that it will not" is just not true. Anyone making this type of statements is incompetent and, again, should be fired. I would not elaborate any more on this since rab777hp just made the point very clear. (Thanks rab777hp for contributing!)

There are at least 5 different server software labeled 2007. Which one of these the IT personnel is talking about? Furthermore, the assertion that such server does not recognize Macs and "this may change in the future as compatibility issues are being addressed by the respective manufacturers" is just plain false. As a general rule any of the server software published by Microsoft will support Macs one way or another. Certainly there is always room for improvement but there is no need to say that Microsoft servers are not compatible with Macs.

The assertion that "the campus will also be implementing collaborative software (SharePoint 2007) (perhaps this is the Server 2007, eh?) which as of now does not support Mac or Mac networks" is, how shall I put it, ridiculous. SharePoint can be accessed through its web interface; as long as people use a standard web browser (Safari, FireFox, etc.) there should not be any issues. I access my Office Live account all the time via my Windows or Mac OS and, so far, I have not have any issues uploading documents and other files.

The assertion that "some of you guys have brought up 'bootcamp.' IT told me that while it does run XP on the surface, the underlying layers are still Mac and that the driver signatures probably wouldn't be updated correctly. THEY TOLD ME that the overwhelming probability is that bootcamp or something like it won't work" is just a lie. I will not even entertain an explanation on this; these incompetents need to keep pace with technologies that are relevant to their network environment.

The assertion that "as far as the wifi issue goes... If you can get your Mac to connect with all the certificates and all, that's great. But the wifi connects to the server." I challenge these "IT people" to produce a server that acts as a Wireless Access Point. Even if they had VPN concentrators (which will require security certificates to connect,) MacOS X will support them without any issues. At the university I attend, the Wireless Access Points installed will allow for any computer to connect. I fail to see why it should be any different at your campus.

Please take this post and forward it to this Chad guy so he can send it to these IT guys. In all seriousness, what the IT department is doing to all the students who have Macs is just wrong. Quato, I would like to apologize on behalf of these people because it makes us competent IT guys look like st. Like I said at the beginning, this so-called IT department needs to be fire for gross incompetence.

Martin M. Mune

[sparx]

Sounds like your IT staff is incompetent to handle a PC network as well as a Mac network.

Their statements about virtualization software like VMWare, Parallels or VirtualBox (free product from Sun) shows a degree of cluelessness I don't see very often. A Mac running Boot Camp is a PC with an Apple logo on it. I suggest installing Boot Camp or virtualization software and placing a sticker over the Apple logo if it confuses them.

I think the MS Server 2007 software is compatible with the new version of MS Office that is out, but I haven't tried it and don't know what level of interoperability exists in the Student & Teacher version as opposed to the professional version. I doubt the problem is as severe as the IT staff suggests. More likely they are just incompetent and don't want to be responsible for troubleshooting the computers if something doesn't work.

- Mike