[bonzo65]

another lemon to the list...

Dual 2.0GHz Power Mac G5 - Serial No. CK513

I've finally resigned my shiny G5 super computer to the role of doorstop

After 3 years and 2 months of good service (well apart from a replaced logic board after 18 months) it just decided to die.

All the usual symptoms - kernal panics, freezes, grey screens, turbo fans... After 2 months of trawling forums, testing this and that, changing RAM/hard drives the Apple geniuses confirmed what I'd guessed all along - it could be the logic board (again) or maybe the processors or maybe both! There's no way I'm forking out between #500 and #900 to get it fixed especially after spending #2300 to get a replacement. Were these computers designed to fail after 3 years? I can't believe the amount of similar cases that occur just after Applecare expires.

Ho hum :0(

steve

Tamworth UK

edit: for what it's worth (having read many of the other posts) - mine failed end of July this year and I'm pretty sure not long after the Leopard security update. Since then I've completely wiped the HD and installed Tiger but the machine still freezes either on startup or within a couple of hours.

[rifraf]

Unfortunately,

Mine has fallen AGAIN as well. This is after extensively cleaning the computer twice, removing PSU, fans, CPUs, everything. I've disabled CPUs, reseated CPUs, removed memory, switched hard drives and then it dawned on me
"THIS IS WHY I BOUGHT A MAC, TO NOT HAVE TO DO ALL THIS CRAP."

I would try Leopard, but I doubt it has much if anything to do with Leopard, this seems more about flawed hardware and planned obsolescence. I don't think I could even fix my face to suggest to anyone to get an Apple right now, much less getting one for myself. Right now I have a Dell laptop that is running better than my Mac - and I'm well beyond deadline on a project. I'll be switching from Final Cut Pro to Premiere Pro on a PC environment pretty soon, I can't stomach shelling out another 2-3 grand for a promise of a mere 3 years.

#G8451

[shawend]

After struggling with my 2.5 GHz dual processor for about a year now I have come to the conclusion that Leopard has absolutely nothing to do with the problem. Once the system fails it does not matter what OS you try. I tried Tiger, Leopard, and Yellow Dog Linux all with no joy.
I am also not a believer in the planned obsoleteness argument. I do not subscribe to malice that which can more easily be attributed to a bad design. I think that there are two major flaws with the G5 towers at least. First, a crappy memory controller that "probably" fails for thermal reasons. Second, a bad liquid cooling design.
Some have said that liquid cooling a computer was a bad idea from the start. However, there have been a number of liquid cooled computers that have not leaked. So it can be done successfully.
I get the impression from some of the posts and some of the people that I have talked to about this that Apple is more that aware that there is a problem with these computers. They are trying to walk a fine line here. There largest concern seems to be avoiding a class action lawsuit. If you complain long enough and loud enough they seem to do something for you. I, however, have yet to be one of the lucky ones who have either gotten a new computer or gotten their old one fixed but I am still trying.
I have heard others say just come clean admit the problem and repair or replace all of the G5s. First, if Apple "admitted the problem" that would ensure that the lawsuits started. Second, admitting the problem would cast ALL of the G5 systems in doubt and would probably force Apple to do something with all of them. Finally, if we get to a class action state do not expect Apple to be forced to repair or replace your computer. Once the lawyers take their cut we would most likely end up with something like a $500 dollar credit towards the purchase of a new MacPro.
All of this is why I am still trying to work something out with Apple. Some money off a $2500 computer does not seem like a good deal for me and with a lawsuit that would be all we would get.

Shawen
#G8444CD....

[rifraf]

Planned obsolescence or bad design, the bottom line still stands Apple should do more for its customers or at least acknowledge the issue. I myself didn't buy AppleCare, but for the number of people who did, if they fall a short period outside of service apple should honor it or in the future develop a lease program or trade-in program. That way they could at least refurb/recycle hardware and more easily retain customers. I don't think its likely though, in this case since there is no benefit if refurbing ppcs since that leads little to forward movement from that chipset. Aside from the fact Apple keeps its fanbase lock and step.

Its probably my loss not getting Applecare in the first place. Still does not replace the probability of either flawed design or planned obsolescence. Or the fact that even if I had gotten AppleCare, I'd be like the others who fell right outside of the warranty just hoping Apple would give a flip without giving the 3rd degree (or 3rd Tier of Support) before something was done.

I sincerely love Apple, I do. I've only owned 1 PC my entire life (a graduation present - not something I spent money on)...everything else Apple, and it doesn't boost my confidence that right now I'm typing from a Dell laptop that is more stable than my G5 tower. I'm sorry, but if Apple is not willing to at least look at this generation of computers and proactively try to at least usher PPC users into the Intel fold it doesn't say they care much IMO. Also, its not a matter of whether they admit it or not - I think we can all agree seeing the myriad issues here and even on the
Apple Support forums here
and here

there is a systemic problem with the last generation of PPC computers. Planned or not. Admission by apple doesn't mitigate there is already clearly doubt about the G5 system and with the Intel chips not at the 3 year mark, the question is whether Apple's going to take a proactive stance to at least acknowledge/remedy this doubt or ignore it. That is what concerns me: as a consumer and user of Apple products since I was a kid - they're not even attempting to acknowledge this issue, so what guarantee do I have that I won't be down this same road 3 years from now if I buy into another product at the tune of $2,000 -$3,000 dollars?

Granted, I'm just feeling pissy at the moment (and have been since realizing this was a widespread issue with no official remedy set forth) - at the end of the day the feigned ignorance on Apple's part is a fact, and one I'm doubtful I can live with in the future.

[shawend]

Don't think that having AppleCare would have resulted in getting your G5 repaired. Mine originally broke while it was still covered under AppleCare. The local Apple store "tried" to fix it until the AppleCare expired then stuck me with a dead G5 and told me it would be $1,800 to fix it. You can imagine my displeasure at that response. Unfortunately, I had to drop the issue for about 6 months while I attended to a personal problem. Now that I am coming back to the issue Apple is even more resolute in their denial of my request to repair my G5.
I have a reasonable repair quote from DT&T but I am reluctant to have the unit repaired due to their apparently high failure rate. That said, my unit did work flawlessly for almost three years before it just died. At least I have my trusty G4 tower to fall back on. As I have said in previous quotes I purchased a Dell tower and have OS X loaded on it and will be loading FinalCut on it sometime soon. So far so good. I am an Apple fan also. However, you can forgive me if I am not in a big hurry to go purchase a new MacPro with AppleCare based on my previous experience.
Unfortunately, a number of people have asked me for recommendations on new computers for themselves. Previously I would have recommended Apple without reservation. Now I have to give then a brief history of my issue with Apple before I make my recommendation so people can put my answers into perspective based on my slightly pessimistic feelings towards Apple at the moment.
Well here is to hoping that Apple restores my faith in them soon by either fixing my G5 or replacing it.

Shawen
#G8444CD....

[rifraf]

Shawen,

The moment you figure that out on a Dell, I am right behind you...actually granted I can already do what I need on After Effects and Premiere, I'm going to put my money on getting over their quirks and put Apple on hold until they actually give a flip about this issue.

I know I always had leanings when i got the Dell monitor over the Apple Cinema displays (they're the same friggin LG screens anyway) - but now I know hell has frozen over the day I'm actually going to get a Dell tower over a Mac.

[Droid]

VladimerePain In this post you say the PSU resistors were fried? http://forums.macwor...e/669802#669802

Did your PSU resistors look like this ?
http://pixelchimp.ne...81016_20413.JPG
http://pixelchimp.ne...81016_20401.JPG
http://pixelchimp.ne...81016_20402.JPG
http://pixelchimp.ne...81016_20411.JPG
http://pixelchimp.ne...81016_20412.JPG


Did you have you mac running on a UPS or line conditioner etc?

My G5 has recently failed (2 months out of warranty) with a similar issue. One processor disappeared after a 'fans on full sleep crash'.
My issue is documented on the Apple discussions - http://discussions.a...672650&tstart=0
(my username :drew reece)

PS my serial is CK532xxxx - I believe the CK denotes manufacture in Cork Ireland.
Message was edited by: Droid added serial & link to Vlad's post

[VladimerePain]

Droid

It's in the exact same spot. I remember that one of them was the R86 same as in your picture. I wasn't running a UPS though or line conditioner. OK so now we know that the power supplies are failing in the same spot as others.

Vladimere

[notjaded]

a few days before mine went totally down it would lock up, days before that for no reason i would also get the full on fans and have to shut it down. What happens now is i can boot it but it immediately starts the series of light flashes that indicate what the problem may be. I have totally torn it down and put it back together and still get the same thing. The thing that pisses me off is that when i took it in i was told it was EITHER one or both of the CPUs or POSSIBLY the logic board. Why can't they tell what it is one way or the other. I'm not paying for the repairs knowing there is no guarantee that i won't be right back here in a few months, i will also go to dell first.

[Droid]

Great, thanks for replying. I thought I was the only one with the cooked PSU resistors.

Where are you VladimerePain, I'm in the UK. I suspect its something to do with the mains supply. I had mine checked out by the electricity network people, but they didn't find anything unusual, it could still be a fault within the property though. I also wondered if it was to do with our mains being 240V here, perhaps that is close to the upper specs on the PSU. I'm planning on getting a battery backup/ surge protector to try to limit these issues when I get paid.

The SATA card that failed, was that an extra PCI card, or something on the main logic board? I have had my G5 to pieces to clean, but still one processor goes missing & now it won't boot with the display working at all. Time to strip it again or get the Applestore to diagnose it.

My G5 is a Dual 2.3Ghz from August 2005.
What is the first part of your serial no?

[Droid]

@ notjaded,

It doesn't really sound like a diagnosis, did you pay them to tell you what was wrong with it? If they did it for free I can see why they want you to come back & pay for the fix. To diagnose they should replace parts & test it until it is stable. It would be costly to have the parts around just to test with. I was contemplating getting mine diagnosed so that i could get the parts myself. To be honest i think a mac mini will be a simpler option for the time being.

The flashing lights you speak of represent error states, they are listed on Apple http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2652
Sorry if you already know this, I suspect you do since you have stripped & rebuilt the G5.

[VladimerePain]

Droid
The SATA card was an add-on for the PCI slot. I'm in the US. I've had the power supply replaced before. After going through these posts again I'm starting to lean towards a faulty power supply screwing up creating problems with other hardware in the system. I went through and compiled these serial numbers.
CK501
G8445
G8451
XB3340E8NVQ
XB3450XXXXX
G851138....
G8535
G84138XXXXX
G843xxxxxxx
g8447
G8532XXXXXX
G844XXXXXXX
G8508xxxxxx
W873.....
G8538xxxxxx
W8448DL1PP6
G8444xxxxx
G8518
G844xxxxxxx
G843xxxxxxx
CK513
CK532

I hope the other posters will forgive my laziness when it came to weeding through the imac and tower serials.
Mine is the g8532 one.

[Droid]

Thanks for the list, one day Apple may recognise this & it may be useful :)

In my case I think the PSU could be an issue, but I have heard of other cases where the PSU doesn't have the same scorching and cooked resistors.
We seem to get through a lot of light bulbs here, so I suspect our supply is not quite right. Perhaps over voltages are causing it.
My old G4 also had a resistor on the PSU that shows similar scorching too. I'm starting to think UPS's or conditioners are essential with this expensive equipment.


Here is a brief case history of my 2005, Dual 2.3Ghz G5 CK532 on the list.

From new it would occasionally lockup in sleep - fans going full blast. I stupidly never reported it to Applecare.
3 Weeks ago after one 'sleep & fans lockup' incident it restarted on one processor. (2 months past Applecare ending)
I couldn't get it to run on 2 processors reliably.
Applecare said I would be charged for diagnosis & repairs. So I stripped it, cleaned it, reseated the heat sink on the back of the logic board and the processor that was listed as missing and put it back together. (Apple hardware test lists serial numbers for the active processors).
It worked well on 2 processors for 5 days then froze & has since stopped booting at all. I now have no display on startup & even the power light goes out (but I can hear drives & fans spinning).

I may strip it again, re-seat the other processor's heatsink & try running in 10.4, but I think it is completely broken now.

[peterflat]

I concur, this thread is been super useful...

I thought I was alone in my struggle to discover exactly what is wrong with my g5 till i found this thread. although, given that my machine is still occasionally operational i don't know if i am in the dead g5 club yet. i live in ny and took my machine to tekserve and they ran a bunch of diagnostic junk on it and said it was probably the logic board... they were happily ready to charge me the standard 740 that apple charges for a replaced logic board plus labor = approx 900$ YAR

my main symptom is the blue screen hang post grey apple boot up screen. also 4 of the 8 slots do not recognize ram and it appears that 2 sticks just recently stopped recognizing... also, my video card died a while ago and i called apple, they replaced it even tho the computer has long been out of warantee. then THAT video card died and I had to replace it myself because everyone I talked to from apple after that said it was suddenly my problem.

I don't know if this suggests the logic board or not... I have been trying to read through, but given that there are now 13 pages of this thread, maybe someone else can just give a holler to let me know if it sounds like i'm experiencing the same thing as everyone else.

my stats are as follows

Machine Name: Power Mac G5
Machine Model: PowerMac7,3
CPU Type: PowerPC G5 (3.0)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 2.5 GHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 2 GB // are actually 3 gigs worth of chips in here but not recognized any more.
Bus Speed: 1.25 GHz
Serial Number: G8438*

thanks for any help. I would love to at least get this machine up and running again without spending a s*ton of money.

p