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my guess is that Apple knows this is a problem...and they dont want to help us at all :-(
apple has deleted ALL of my posts on the discussion forum about thius issue...and worst of all..no explination as to why
im about 15 min from posting this on DIGG
Power Mac G5 logic board failure?
#309
wrbmonster 
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 02:51 PM
MultiQuote
#310
wrbmonster
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:08 PM
#311
bonzo65
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:23 PM
Drew has set up a link to his site in attempt to create a single database of G5 problems
take a look
http://pixelchimp.net/mac-death
http://pixelchimp.net/mac-death/list
take a look
http://pixelchimp.net/mac-death
http://pixelchimp.net/mac-death/list
#312
rwalsh17
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:36 PM
Hi Charles,
No, unfortunately, I didn't record the aforementioned conversation 'cause I had to call during Apple business hours, which means that I was at work and didn't have access to a recording device. Moreover, even if I had recorded the conversation, I don't believe an admission such as the G5 'delicate circuitry remark' would be proof of a design flaw in the eyes of Apple anyway, since it was basically the opinion of one Apple Technical Supervisor and not something founded upon impirical evidence. I guess our next course of action would be to start our own little investigation to find out if the G5 logic board IS in fact, physically inferior to those of the G3 and G4. If we could prove that a design flaw exists at the MANUFACTURING process level, I think we'd have a solid case for Apple to pick up the bill for repairs.
Also, I'm aware that the Apple Service rep was placating me to the extent that a hired representative of a huge corporation is required to in order to extinguish potential flames, but I truly feel that the Supervisor I talked to understood that there is something significant going on here. I knew that he would never agree to pick up the cost of the repairs, but filing a formal complaint with Apple and getting a case number for my claim was worth it.
For everybody out there who has or had repaired your expensive PowerMac G5 systems, call Apple and let them know about it!!!
The more repair claims that Apple receives regarding this problem, the more significant the problem will look later on if legal action is taken against the company. The more individual case numbers Apple has logged regarding logic board failures, the better. We have NOTHING TO LOSE by contacting Apple about this problem! That's what customer service is for -- to serve those whom keep the company in business!!!
However, there are few things to keep in mind when doing this...
1. Remember to be polite and cordial while on the phone with the Apple representatives. Never yell or raise your voice to the rep. Always keep your cool, and ALWAYS avoid name calling or profanity.
2. State ONLY the facts. If you embellish or straight out lie, you could be sabotaging a potential out-of-warranty repair service for yourself and could get an earful later on if you're caught lying.
3. ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. Of course, the low-level Apple rep who answers your call first isn't going to be able to do anything, so you need to talk to somebody at least one level up. Try to get as high up the chain as you can, because higher-ups don't want to waste their time on repair claims. Just think if 1,000 Mac customers called about the same problem and asked to speak to a supervisor about the same hardware failure problem? That's a step in the right direction at least!
4. Make sure to always ask for your Apple represnetatives' names, and be sure to write down your case number.
I know there are things I've probably left out, but if you keep cool, are objective, and use common sense during your call with Apple you'll be fine. If an overzealous rep decides to get really nasty with you (as I've read about on these boards), make sure you ask for said rep's supervisor and then tell them how you were treated. Don't EVER let a rep's bad attitude escalate the situation to a hostile one. If he/she loses his/her cool for no good reason, then it'll be in your favor.
Happy holidays all!
rwalsh17
No, unfortunately, I didn't record the aforementioned conversation 'cause I had to call during Apple business hours, which means that I was at work and didn't have access to a recording device. Moreover, even if I had recorded the conversation, I don't believe an admission such as the G5 'delicate circuitry remark' would be proof of a design flaw in the eyes of Apple anyway, since it was basically the opinion of one Apple Technical Supervisor and not something founded upon impirical evidence. I guess our next course of action would be to start our own little investigation to find out if the G5 logic board IS in fact, physically inferior to those of the G3 and G4. If we could prove that a design flaw exists at the MANUFACTURING process level, I think we'd have a solid case for Apple to pick up the bill for repairs.
Also, I'm aware that the Apple Service rep was placating me to the extent that a hired representative of a huge corporation is required to in order to extinguish potential flames, but I truly feel that the Supervisor I talked to understood that there is something significant going on here. I knew that he would never agree to pick up the cost of the repairs, but filing a formal complaint with Apple and getting a case number for my claim was worth it.
For everybody out there who has or had repaired your expensive PowerMac G5 systems, call Apple and let them know about it!!!
The more repair claims that Apple receives regarding this problem, the more significant the problem will look later on if legal action is taken against the company. The more individual case numbers Apple has logged regarding logic board failures, the better. We have NOTHING TO LOSE by contacting Apple about this problem! That's what customer service is for -- to serve those whom keep the company in business!!!
However, there are few things to keep in mind when doing this...
1. Remember to be polite and cordial while on the phone with the Apple representatives. Never yell or raise your voice to the rep. Always keep your cool, and ALWAYS avoid name calling or profanity.
2. State ONLY the facts. If you embellish or straight out lie, you could be sabotaging a potential out-of-warranty repair service for yourself and could get an earful later on if you're caught lying.
3. ALWAYS ask to talk to a supervisor. Of course, the low-level Apple rep who answers your call first isn't going to be able to do anything, so you need to talk to somebody at least one level up. Try to get as high up the chain as you can, because higher-ups don't want to waste their time on repair claims. Just think if 1,000 Mac customers called about the same problem and asked to speak to a supervisor about the same hardware failure problem? That's a step in the right direction at least!
4. Make sure to always ask for your Apple represnetatives' names, and be sure to write down your case number.
I know there are things I've probably left out, but if you keep cool, are objective, and use common sense during your call with Apple you'll be fine. If an overzealous rep decides to get really nasty with you (as I've read about on these boards), make sure you ask for said rep's supervisor and then tell them how you were treated. Don't EVER let a rep's bad attitude escalate the situation to a hostile one. If he/she loses his/her cool for no good reason, then it'll be in your favor.
Happy holidays all!
rwalsh17
#313
wrbmonster
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 03:51 PM
ive tried to call apple...no i dont know if called the wrong number..but i kept getting to the part where they want to charge me 49 dollars to continue...all the info i coudl get out of the people i was able to talk to was to go to the apple store...lol
Yea right...ive called most of the apple stores in LA and just about all of them are booked solid!
i fell if we get enought diggs going..that apple might take a serious look into this problem. Digg has its ways of making corporate america change their stance. (i saw it a few times effect Microsoft's decision on xbox related topics)
Yea right...ive called most of the apple stores in LA and just about all of them are booked solid!
i fell if we get enought diggs going..that apple might take a serious look into this problem. Digg has its ways of making corporate america change their stance. (i saw it a few times effect Microsoft's decision on xbox related topics)
#314
wrbmonster
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Posted 09 December 2008 - 07:43 PM
i found on a nother forum tht if you use a hair drier around the RAM slots ( i focused more on the top slots) that the heat heats up the solders and the computer should start up just fine...
SO
I tried it..plugged everything in, took the side off, removed the fans and turned on the hair drier. I then hit the power buttin and what do you know?! it worked...she started up just fine!! im actually on the G5 right now...
i kinda scared to restart her to see what happens but im going to do that now..ill keep you guys posted....
PS - THIS IS DEFINITELY A MANUFACTURING PROBLEM!!!!!
SO
I tried it..plugged everything in, took the side off, removed the fans and turned on the hair drier. I then hit the power buttin and what do you know?! it worked...she started up just fine!! im actually on the G5 right now...
i kinda scared to restart her to see what happens but im going to do that now..ill keep you guys posted....
PS - THIS IS DEFINITELY A MANUFACTURING PROBLEM!!!!!
#315
wrbmonster
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Posted 10 December 2008 - 08:38 AM
that fixed worked for 3 restarts, i booted from CD to do the hardware test on the 3rd restart and 2/3rds the way through, it froze and the fans went into turbo. The next restart my G5 was back to the 3 flashing lights.the Logic Board was really hot when i touched it near the upper RAM slots on the lower right corner.
tonight, im going to try the hair drier method again and try another hardware test..se if that completes.
tonight, im going to try the hair drier method again and try another hardware test..se if that completes.
#316
yevlar
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 03:47 PM
My Dual 2GHz G5 just died yesterday (12-15-08) with the same issues that others have cited - freezing on the grey apple screen, fans going crazy after several minutes, and naturally the Apple store says it's the Logic Board and at least one processor -$1700 to fix. It's the late 2005 model, which I purchased refurbished from Apple in early 2006. No new software or hardware has been installed in the machine in over a year, no apple updates, no downloaded software, I'm even still running 10.4.10, so any sort of application update did not cause this issue. It was simply working great one day, complete failure the next. Thank god I do daily backups.
I will be calling Apple tomorrow to lodge a former complaint, then, after reading this forum and several others like it, am strongly considering moving back to the PC. This level of failure is astounding to me, and Apple's seemingly half-handed response to it is disturbing and unfortunate. I hope to have luck when I speak to them, but since it is a refurbished machine and I never bought Applecare, I'm not holding out for any miracles. And I could get one helluva PC for $1700 these days.
I will be calling Apple tomorrow to lodge a former complaint, then, after reading this forum and several others like it, am strongly considering moving back to the PC. This level of failure is astounding to me, and Apple's seemingly half-handed response to it is disturbing and unfortunate. I hope to have luck when I speak to them, but since it is a refurbished machine and I never bought Applecare, I'm not holding out for any miracles. And I could get one helluva PC for $1700 these days.
#317
charlesc
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:04 PM
Hello All -
Just an update here - an FYI for my fellow Mac users who have had this problem. I sent my machine to DT&T Computer in Fremont, CA, and indeed they diagnosed a failed logic board. The repair for a 2.0 dual G5 is $450 which gives one a refurbished logic board with a six month warranty. For my money this is better than the $1000 Apple store deal. Other folks on this forum have had good luck with DT&T.
I called Apple and asked to speak with a supervisor. The service rep was very nice and connected me, after a few minutes, with a supervisor. We discussed the problem at length and, as others have said, he indicated this problem was currently not listed as a known issue that is considered wide-spread enough to warrant a repair notice or recall. Apparently there was a known issue with the power supply for certain runs of the G5, but the logic board failure is still under their radar. However, the supervisor was quite concerned with the issue and assigned a case number to it and forwarded my problem to the tech department. He told me that they would make the call as to whether or not Apple will pick up the tab for the repair. He said he could not guarantee anything but he would try and would call me back in a few days with an answer. I was very impressed with the way he handled my query.
In response to Yevlar: I agree that you that Apple might not be responsive because you bought a machine that was already refurbished. I don't know but give it a shot. It is always worth a try. It is important to always be polite and to understand their position which is the units are no longer under warranty and they cannot be certain of how the unit was handled over the years. Still, if enough people formally log this issue with Apple, the company will have to recognize it if it is as prevelant as it appears on this forum. Then again, we may be just an unlucky handful of people out of millions of users who have had no problem.....
As far as switching to PC - boy, it would take more than this. My primary work program is for Mac only, so that would mean switching programs. Not interested. I used PCs for 15 years before switching to Mac and I had problems with them, too. Sure, they were cheaper to fix, but they never ran as well. Oh, BTW, I priced a PC with 8 cores, xeon processors at 2.8 GHZ and it was around $4,000. The Mac Pro 2.8 is around $2500 street price. So it is a bargain compared to the high-end PCs I have seen out there.
If anyone is interested, I'll report back when I hear from Apple.
Happy Holidays, everyone!
Just an update here - an FYI for my fellow Mac users who have had this problem. I sent my machine to DT&T Computer in Fremont, CA, and indeed they diagnosed a failed logic board. The repair for a 2.0 dual G5 is $450 which gives one a refurbished logic board with a six month warranty. For my money this is better than the $1000 Apple store deal. Other folks on this forum have had good luck with DT&T.
I called Apple and asked to speak with a supervisor. The service rep was very nice and connected me, after a few minutes, with a supervisor. We discussed the problem at length and, as others have said, he indicated this problem was currently not listed as a known issue that is considered wide-spread enough to warrant a repair notice or recall. Apparently there was a known issue with the power supply for certain runs of the G5, but the logic board failure is still under their radar. However, the supervisor was quite concerned with the issue and assigned a case number to it and forwarded my problem to the tech department. He told me that they would make the call as to whether or not Apple will pick up the tab for the repair. He said he could not guarantee anything but he would try and would call me back in a few days with an answer. I was very impressed with the way he handled my query.
In response to Yevlar: I agree that you that Apple might not be responsive because you bought a machine that was already refurbished. I don't know but give it a shot. It is always worth a try. It is important to always be polite and to understand their position which is the units are no longer under warranty and they cannot be certain of how the unit was handled over the years. Still, if enough people formally log this issue with Apple, the company will have to recognize it if it is as prevelant as it appears on this forum. Then again, we may be just an unlucky handful of people out of millions of users who have had no problem.....
As far as switching to PC - boy, it would take more than this. My primary work program is for Mac only, so that would mean switching programs. Not interested. I used PCs for 15 years before switching to Mac and I had problems with them, too. Sure, they were cheaper to fix, but they never ran as well. Oh, BTW, I priced a PC with 8 cores, xeon processors at 2.8 GHZ and it was around $4,000. The Mac Pro 2.8 is around $2500 street price. So it is a bargain compared to the high-end PCs I have seen out there.
If anyone is interested, I'll report back when I hear from Apple.
Happy Holidays, everyone!
#318
gbenner6
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Posted 16 December 2008 - 08:34 PM
A follow-up to my post on 11/16.. my G5 is still running like new. The replacement processor appears to have taken care of the problem. I have ran a few programs a little harder than before just to "satisfy" myself during this 90 day parts warranty.
I stumbled across a website that may offer an alternative to the DIY folks..
http://www.dvwarehou...pple-c-253.html
They have logic boards, processors, and anything else you might need. One drawback- the parts were pulled from used machines. How long before the parts fail? A gamble.
I will most likely call Apple and lodge a formal complaint as several have suggested. Not expecting a lot, but one never knows which straw will be the tipping point. It would be great if Apple would recognize the issue and provide relief to affected owners. Time will tell...
Merry Christmas and a joyous holiday season to all...
I stumbled across a website that may offer an alternative to the DIY folks..
http://www.dvwarehou...pple-c-253.html
They have logic boards, processors, and anything else you might need. One drawback- the parts were pulled from used machines. How long before the parts fail? A gamble.
I will most likely call Apple and lodge a formal complaint as several have suggested. Not expecting a lot, but one never knows which straw will be the tipping point. It would be great if Apple would recognize the issue and provide relief to affected owners. Time will tell...
Merry Christmas and a joyous holiday season to all...
#319
wrbmonster
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Posted 17 December 2008 - 10:00 AM
update:
i brought my computer to the local apple store. All i was told was that this problem isnt as common as i think (this board an all the other forums ive seen sem to prove that claim wrong) and that all they could do to help is waive the labor fee. i declined the offer and now my g5 sits in the corner broken.
ive called apple to complain, and got nowhere.
what number have you other guys called? perhaps im calling the wrong one?
i was just informed that most of the 1.8, 2.0 and 2.3's my work had were no longer being used for FEAR of this happening! From what i was told..5 of the G5's did exactly what mine did and then the company started upgrading to intels.
i brought my computer to the local apple store. All i was told was that this problem isnt as common as i think (this board an all the other forums ive seen sem to prove that claim wrong) and that all they could do to help is waive the labor fee. i declined the offer and now my g5 sits in the corner broken.
ive called apple to complain, and got nowhere.
what number have you other guys called? perhaps im calling the wrong one?
i was just informed that most of the 1.8, 2.0 and 2.3's my work had were no longer being used for FEAR of this happening! From what i was told..5 of the G5's did exactly what mine did and then the company started upgrading to intels.
#320
rwalsh17
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Posted 17 December 2008 - 12:08 PM
wrbmonster,
Of course Apple is gonna say that the problem is not as common as you think. The fact that they offered to waive the labor fee is surprising to me, as it implies that they're at least willing to accept SOME of the responsibility, or else they'd tell you that you're out of luck, as they told me.
When I got through to Apple, I just used the standard US tech support line at 1-800-275-2273. They didn't give me any help, but at least I was able to make a record of the problem and receive a case number. If you haven't done this already, I suggest you call back and go as high up the Apple foodchain as you can, until you're given a case number (and then turned away with feigned apologies). Who knows? You may have better luck the second time around anyway.
ALWAYS make a record of the computer failure with Apple, regardless of whether or not they agree to pick up the cost of the repairs. This is the only way that a class-action lawsuit will ever get off the ground. Apple knows there is a problem with the G5 -- they just refuse to admit it. Hopefully, we'll all have to opportunity to FORCE them to acknowledge the shoddy craftsmanship of the G5 logic board soon.
Let's do everything we can to get our hard-earned money back! We don't have to sit around and 'eat up' the repair costs just 'cause Apple is a big, hip company with high-powered lawyers. If this PowerMac G5 manufacturing defect is as common as it seems to be, then Apple is responsible for a lot of reimbursements! Forum members 'yevlar' and 'charlesc' have the right idea: we've got nothing to lose by complaining to Apple! If they say no to our repair request, at the very worst we're simply right back where we started, and at the very least there will be a formal record of the complaint on file.
MAKE SURE TO FILE A FORMAL REPAIR REQUEST WITH APPLE AND GET A CASE NUMBER!!!!
Check out post number 311 on 12/9/08 for things to keep in mind while on the phone with Apple.
Good luck and Happy Holidays all!!!
--rwalsh17
Of course Apple is gonna say that the problem is not as common as you think. The fact that they offered to waive the labor fee is surprising to me, as it implies that they're at least willing to accept SOME of the responsibility, or else they'd tell you that you're out of luck, as they told me.
When I got through to Apple, I just used the standard US tech support line at 1-800-275-2273. They didn't give me any help, but at least I was able to make a record of the problem and receive a case number. If you haven't done this already, I suggest you call back and go as high up the Apple foodchain as you can, until you're given a case number (and then turned away with feigned apologies). Who knows? You may have better luck the second time around anyway.
ALWAYS make a record of the computer failure with Apple, regardless of whether or not they agree to pick up the cost of the repairs. This is the only way that a class-action lawsuit will ever get off the ground. Apple knows there is a problem with the G5 -- they just refuse to admit it. Hopefully, we'll all have to opportunity to FORCE them to acknowledge the shoddy craftsmanship of the G5 logic board soon.
Let's do everything we can to get our hard-earned money back! We don't have to sit around and 'eat up' the repair costs just 'cause Apple is a big, hip company with high-powered lawyers. If this PowerMac G5 manufacturing defect is as common as it seems to be, then Apple is responsible for a lot of reimbursements! Forum members 'yevlar' and 'charlesc' have the right idea: we've got nothing to lose by complaining to Apple! If they say no to our repair request, at the very worst we're simply right back where we started, and at the very least there will be a formal record of the complaint on file.
MAKE SURE TO FILE A FORMAL REPAIR REQUEST WITH APPLE AND GET A CASE NUMBER!!!!
Check out post number 311 on 12/9/08 for things to keep in mind while on the phone with Apple.
Good luck and Happy Holidays all!!!
--rwalsh17
#321
yevlar
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Posted 17 December 2008 - 02:53 PM
After reading up a bit more, I think I will give DT&T a try
first. Even if it ends up being a $900 repair for the logic board and a
processor, it's still better than $1700 from Apple, and certainly
better than $2500 for a new mac.
Charles- Could you point me to where you say an 8-core for $2500? On the Apple store the 8-cores start at $2700. I was looking at the 4-core Mac Pro (2 GB RAM Nvidia card, the rest at default) for $2449, and comparing to a 4-core Dell (except 8 GB RAM similar Nvida card, but also a BD-RE burner) for around $1700.
My #1 problem with upgrading to a Mac Pro is not really this current issue or worry that it would happen again in 4 years with a new machine (though that is definitely a concern) -my issue is that 90% of the software I purchased was before the Universal Binaries were released. So if I wanted to upgrade to the Intel cores, I'd need to purchase UB upgrades for Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Maya, and Lightwave, which could easily add a grand plus to the cost of the machine, which I quite simply can't afford, whereas I could transfer my licenses to PC for free (for all except Final Cut) and move to Adobe Premiere for $500, which would bring the grand total for the system to around $2200. I only moved to the Mac in 2006, so migrating back isn't a huge issue for me, just a bit of an inconvenience.
It's a connundrum, because I really enjoy the Mac, but am I willing and able to shell out an extra grand for it? I just don't know right now. In the meantime, I'll just have to see if the G5 can be saved and running until I can actually afford an upgrade.
Thanks for all of your help, everyone!
first. Even if it ends up being a $900 repair for the logic board and a
processor, it's still better than $1700 from Apple, and certainly
better than $2500 for a new mac.
Charles- Could you point me to where you say an 8-core for $2500? On the Apple store the 8-cores start at $2700. I was looking at the 4-core Mac Pro (2 GB RAM Nvidia card, the rest at default) for $2449, and comparing to a 4-core Dell (except 8 GB RAM similar Nvida card, but also a BD-RE burner) for around $1700.
My #1 problem with upgrading to a Mac Pro is not really this current issue or worry that it would happen again in 4 years with a new machine (though that is definitely a concern) -my issue is that 90% of the software I purchased was before the Universal Binaries were released. So if I wanted to upgrade to the Intel cores, I'd need to purchase UB upgrades for Final Cut Studio, Photoshop, Maya, and Lightwave, which could easily add a grand plus to the cost of the machine, which I quite simply can't afford, whereas I could transfer my licenses to PC for free (for all except Final Cut) and move to Adobe Premiere for $500, which would bring the grand total for the system to around $2200. I only moved to the Mac in 2006, so migrating back isn't a huge issue for me, just a bit of an inconvenience.
It's a connundrum, because I really enjoy the Mac, but am I willing and able to shell out an extra grand for it? I just don't know right now. In the meantime, I'll just have to see if the G5 can be saved and running until I can actually afford an upgrade.
Thanks for all of your help, everyone!
#322
charlesc
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Posted 17 December 2008 - 04:28 PM
Yevlar: the 8 core machine I saw was on MacMall www.macmall.com/macmall/families/macpro/
I priced a similar PC on PCaudiolabs and it was much higher. But if a 4 core works for you, maybe it makes sense to go back to PC. I use Digital Performer as my primary music sequencer/recorder and really do not want to switch programs. Sounds like you can use most of your programs on PC, so that is not an issue for you. Except for Final Cut........
Do you like Adobe Premier?
Good luck with DT&T. I'll have my machine back next week, so hopefully they will have made a solid repair. You do know they use "refurbished" parts, right?
~C
I priced a similar PC on PCaudiolabs and it was much higher. But if a 4 core works for you, maybe it makes sense to go back to PC. I use Digital Performer as my primary music sequencer/recorder and really do not want to switch programs. Sounds like you can use most of your programs on PC, so that is not an issue for you. Except for Final Cut........
Do you like Adobe Premier?
Good luck with DT&T. I'll have my machine back next week, so hopefully they will have made a solid repair. You do know they use "refurbished" parts, right?
~C
