[JeffDy]

Seems that this server is off!!

http://www.articlesb...sue-399545.html

[tek_uk]

Right, i'll try to contribute:

I will also send an email to the journalist.

As for the description of the problems, here's a first attemps.

Whenever i called, and from other posts, it seems they always use the excuse of 'we are not aware of this problem' so i think we need to make them aware, in an official way so they can't ignore it. Coming up with a standard descitpion of the problem is a good way in my view.

Feel free to add/update but i think it would be useful if we all communicated about the issue constistently. Here's a start:



Model

PowerMac G5 dual 1.8, Late June 05

(need to add all models impacted in this section)

Symptoms

- Power light stays on only when power button pressed. Sometimes stays on.

- No chime

- Ni disk spinning

- No keyboard or mouse

- Fan noise

- After a few minutes fans go full speed

Tests performed

Rest PMU

Reset Pram

Reseated Ram

Reseated PCI cards



Workaround

Blow hot air with a hair dryer to the front of the unit or open the unit and blow hot air near to teh left bottom corner of the Logic board, near Ram slots. The computer will then boot normally.

When booted, computer passes all hardware tests.

*

Right, this is my start. I think we maybe should aim to structure this like an apple support document.

We should also be clear as to what we expect from apple. In my opinion, a recall is very unlikely so we should aim for a repair program, like the one they had for the power supply problem. It's also the first thing they checked when i called (if there was a repair program.

I'm also thinking about sending a recorded letter to apple customer services.

Laurent

[macbabe]

Droid already has a list started similar to what you're talking about. He's asked everyone to add their system specs and problems to the list so we have one database of all our issues.



When I talked to Apple tech support about the power supply problem, they said my model wasn't included in that range they were repairing. Logically we all know that when they changed models they didn't ditch all the power supplies they already had and not install a single one in newer computers, but right now they are still denying some model numbers with the same problems. And they're saying "we haven't heard of any of the same issues with other models" even though you're on the phone with them telling them there are issues with other model numbers.

[Rambo66]

Hey Guys,

That reporter I contacted, and subsequently, many of you contact, sent me an e-mail this morning politely asking me to remove his address and number from the forum. He's a really nice guy who said he's the only person in his office and

"I receive an average of 200 calls and 750 e-mails a week. I don't have the time to respond to these folks and I would hate for them to waste their time sending me e-mails that I won't read."

So, if you wouldn't mind please don't contact him again. It was nice having his interest but we gots to move.

Thanks!!

[benjikant]

A few months ago, I noticed that my computer was not running as quickly
as it used to. I checked my system profiler and it showed that it was
running on just one (1) CPU. I am running Leopard 10.5.6. I thought
that it was perhaps for this reason. I re-installed Tiger, but the
problem still persisted. I was told that perhaps the logic board was
telling the computer that there is only one CPU, as I was also told by
a Mac repair shop that normally the computer should not start up if
only one CPU is working. I have included the system profiler GRAB shot
off of my computer. Can anyone PLEASE HELP?
Thanks
Ben
Model Name: Power Mac G5
Model Identifier: PowerMac7,3
Processor Name: PowerPC G5 (3.1)
Processor Speed: 2.3 GHz
Number Of CPUs: 1
L2 Cache (per CPU): 512 KB
Memory: 4 GB
Bus Speed: 1.15 GHz
Boot ROM Version: 5.2.4f1
Serial Number: CK51900

[glaston]

I find it interesting that although Apple considers this a series of isolated incidents that are not likely to be caused by the same issue, that there's so many people with the same issue that flooded a reporters inbox that he was unable to deal with the volume.



I think what we need to do is establish a central place to compile all the information regarding this problem.

Maybe someone has some extra web space to host some of the data.

That can be referenced and linked to on social networking sites, and when trying to make media sources aware.



If it was done right using the various web 2.0 services, that alone would generate interest.

The clever use of social networking to make a unified complaint/voice heard.

[tommthorsen]

Same problem here - just when the weather started to get cold - BOOM, no computer - and took out my main drive with it as I was trying to back up recent files. I ended up strapping my G5 to a radiator wrapped in foil (I joke not) in order to get it run just long enough to attempt to get some files and try the hardware test. Sure, everything is just fine when strapped to a radiator and wrapped in foil.

I hope Apple reads this because their G5 looked like week-old leftovers - but leftovers would have had more horsepower than that mess they called a Professional Computer, and sold priced-accordingly. How embarrassing for Apple and just another reason why you shouldn't buy an Apple Computer. Ever. Keep the hairdryer - toss the G5. It's quieter.

It is most definitely chip creep - and I wanted to know if anyone can figure out which solder areas might be the problem so perhaps a re-soldering can be attempted. I would like to simply try a slowly-increasing heat gun method, laying the board flat and slowly increasing the heat to avoid shocking the parts, and then pulling back to allow the solder to reconstitute itself and blending across any microcracks that have appeared. Could it be that simple?

If so, is there a way to figure out which joints might have cracks or has anyone figured that out?

Mine is a one-location, never-been-moved Dual 2Ghz G5 and there is no reason a solid state part should fail at the solder level from simple operation in 3-4 years. No reason.

[bonzo65]

here

http://pixelchimp.net/mac-death

[macbabe]

A problem I'm seeing is that we're calling Apple support, the techs are telling us that they haven't heard of this issue, and it doesn't seem like anybody at Apple is keeping up with it. Not a single one of us posting here has said that a tech told them "Your complaint will definitely be noted and Apple will be keeping up with how many complaints we have", or "Apple has received several complaints like this and it's under investigation." You know Apple has to do that to issue the recalls and fixes that it does, but It feels like we're being pushed to the side. As if the problem is so huge Apple is ignoring it. Not saying that's what Apple is definitely doing, but that's what it appears to us. Of course we're the ones with thousands of dollars each invested in relatively new but already dead machines, so I suppose it would feel that way to us.

[tek_uk]

Just a quick note:



I think the web site mentioned in a post above is a very good idea.

I would make the name or title a lot more specific though such as "PowerMac G5 Logicboard failure after 3 years" because i guess Apple won't care much about dead macs. I think we need to make it clear in all correspondances that we are dealing with a manufacturing defect here.

Also, with regards to making apple "aware" of the issue (which i think is the main point of all this, or at least a prerequisite to them doing something), i am happy to compile a spreadsheet that would contain something like name, machine type , serial and more importantly case number. I think this is the key here. All of us who have contacted Apple have a case number. We need to compile those and send them to Apple so they can't ignore the issue anymore. I guess a few hundred case numbers would be good.

Let me know if you think this is a good idea and then i can send an email address to send me the details and i'll compile the file.

Oh, and one last thought: Somebody mentioned using social networking. How about creating a Facebook groups called something like "for Apple to deal with the faulty Powermac G5 Logicboard issue" ?

Laurent

[benjikant]

I think this is a great idea...



Ben :8}

[Droid]

tommthorsen said:

It is most definitely chip creep - and I wanted to know if anyone can figure out which solder areas might be the problem so perhaps a re-soldering can be attempted. I would like to simply try a slowly-increasing heat gun method, laying the board flat and slowly increasing the heat to avoid shocking the parts, and then pulling back to allow the solder to reconstitute itself and blending across any microcracks that have appeared. Could it be that simple?

If so, is there a way to figure out which joints might have cracks or has anyone figured that out?

Mine is a one-location, never-been-moved Dual 2Ghz G5 and there is no reason a solid state part should fail at the solder level from simple operation in 3-4 years. No reason.

There is some speculation that it is the U3 controller. It's on the back of the logic board, and governs the passing of data between CPU's, RAM and IO. There is also a suggestion that Apple may have switched solder to lead free solder to comply with RoHS guidelines at the time. The newer solder doesn't flow as well, and seems to be more prone to thermal fatigue & cracking.

The U3 controller is a 'Ball Grid Array' chip, and has a lot of connections all soldered directly under the chip. It looks like a nightmare to resolder, probably impossible without a lot of experience & equipment IMO. I suspect the only way to get to the bottom of this is to have 3 random machines tested by experts that will diagnose the failures. Apple seem to have a 'rip it out & start again' approach to fault finding, which doesn't help pinpoint the failure.

From what I can tell it is in the area of the U3 controller & memory slots that the 'hairdryer fix' has an effect. This doesn't work for my dead G5.

[Droid]

tek_uk said:

I think the web site mentioned in a post above is a very good idea.

Good, that is my site.

Quote

I would make the name or title a lot more specific though such as "PowerMac G5 Logicboard failure after 3 years" because i guess Apple won't care much about dead macs. I think we need to make it clear in all correspondances that we are dealing with a manufacturing defect here.

I can't promise when, but I plan on making the data clearer & should highlight that it seems to be a built in fault.

Quote

Also, with regards to making apple "aware" of the issue (which i think is the main point of all this, or at least a prerequisite to them doing something), i am happy to compile a spreadsheet that would contain something like name, machine type , serial and more importantly case number. I think this is the key here. All of us who have contacted Apple have a case number. We need to compile those and send them to Apple so they can't ignore the issue anymore. I guess a few hundred case numbers would be good.

I don't have previous case numbers in my list, but it does show prior issues with the G5. I personally don't have any case numbers for my G5 & this issue, Apple just won't acknowledge it.

Quote

Let me know if you think this is a good idea and then i can send an email address to send me the details and i'll compile the file.

I'd suggest working with what we have already. I'll export the data to a Google spreadsheet, I was planning on doing so to graph the life spans anyway. I'm trying to figure out if I can automate it. I'm afraid I cannot include the full email & serial numbers, since it is a privacy issue, but the rest of the data will be there.

Quote

Oh, and one last thought: Somebody mentioned using social networking. How about creating a Facebook groups called something like "for Apple to deal with the faulty Powermac G5 Logicboard issue" ?

Laurent

Go for it, it could help.

[rifraf]

I think both of these ideas are a good way to organize and promote this information - and Facebook should be interesting indeed.
The funny thing is, Apple seems to think willfully ignoring their customers is a good thing in the age of emerging clones. After this experience, if I ever find a feasible hackintosh alternative I find it doubtful I won't take that route. I mean even if Apple eventually straightens up over this issue, its been MONTHS of ignoring it and at this point - I've lost any and all loyalty to Apple beyond needing Final Cut Pro.