[Macworld]

Post your comments for Resolving preamp problems here

[maineguy]

Hey Jim
I am enjoying following these articles, thanks!
I was checking out the Mackie website and it says there:
"You can even daisy-chain two 16-channel Onyx mixers via FireWire and send a whopping 32 mic signals right to your laptop. (PC only; Mac support for mixer chaining coming soon.)"
Have you tried it on the Mac yet? Even if it's PC only at this point, how the heck did they get a firewire interface to work right on the PC?!?! I have the M-Audio 1814 and I have not been able to make it work on my pc, and I have tried every driver, update, restart technique, etc... this pos compaq can't even find the box! Of course it could be M-Audio...
Old mac mini works fine with it...
Also, I want your recording budget (or exchange rate!) ;-)

[Jim Dalrymple]

Hey maineguy,
I actually talked to them about that page and what it says. Short answer, it's outdated and just hasn't been updated yet. I'll let you know how the daisy chain goes.
Jim

[AJAXRAYOVAC]

This sort of nonsense is another reason why the record industry is in such sad shape. ( and why so many amateur records today lack in sonic character and soul.) Thank god for companies like, Chandler and Neve for keeping quality pre-amps alive and affordable.
AJAX

[maineguy]

Glad they update their products faster than their webpage! I'm looking forward to hear how it works out!

[emvw]

Wait a minute... 32+ channels? For a "blues album"? Look up Glyn Johns' micing technique. You've got too many mics on the drums - especially if you proclaim not to be a pro. Can you say "phase issues"? (If you don't know what I'm referring to, you definitely don't need to be messing with so many mics!) I have made great drum tracks with only 3 or 4 mics, placed well...
Along those lines, more is NOT always better. Take the gear you have and learn how to use it. The right mic in the right place is always better then 10 mics placed wherever it "looks good". Music is the art of SOUND. Use your ears to find where a mic sounds good - stop following the formulas that every GC employee thinks are the end all-be all or recording.
So return all that cheap gear you bought, and get less - but better - gear!. Get good mics and some good preamps (UA, Avalon, Great River, etc) and learn how to use it!

[Jim Dalrymple]

emvw, I'm not using all 32 channels, but that's what I have available if I want them.

[Jim Dalrymple]

AJAXRAYOVAC, I would love to have all Neve gear. Someday.

[bafonso]

Mackie's pre-amps? Please... get apogee's ensemble or any really pro preamps. As much as those mackies are really useful for live work, they're not up to the higher standards one would expect from pro studio preamps. You'll never fully enjoy the quality of the whole setup if you're starting off with those mackie preamps.
Apogee's preamps are very clean and transparent so you may look into other alternatives such as focusrite, API, Neve, etc. Preamps are one of the most critical elements in the path, only second to the mic perhaps...

[mblasini66]

I totally agree with "bafonso". You should always look after pro gear, and you also need to be a great engineer. I just got the Apogee Ensemble and it sounds beautiful. I also bought the Apogee Big Ben Master Clock. That combination has taken my sound to a new level. Plus, I bought a Vintech 273 (based on the Neve 1073), a Neve 1272 and the Universal Audio 610 Solo tube preamp. This stuff costs a lot of money, but the sound is as good as a pure analog setting. Of course, analog is always better and nothing can beat the sound of tape compression!!!
You can also get API and SSL channel strips to complete the perfect musical ritual (with this, you don't need to invest a million bucks on a huge console).
To me, the 003, the M-Audio and the Mackie preamps sound thin and silly. You really need to get high end microphones and preamps. Apogee converters are simply the best, and don't forget to get the best clock source: Apogee's Big Ben Master Clock. Without good clocking, digital completely sucks!!!

[protoolshdman]

AJAX,
Was your first mic pre a Neve? Was your first mic a Telefunken? Was your first console an SSL? Is your current console an SSL? Doubt it. It is very foolish to forget were we came from. My first mic pre was the cheap focusrite that comes in the 001. However, had I not made that purchase I would not have eventually had the career that it takes to purchase the Pro Tools HD rig I have or any of the mics I now have or any of the mic pres I now have. By the way I was nominated for a Dove award (Christian Grammy's) that I cut using the Digi 001. A good engineer should be able to mix a gold record on a Mackie 1604. That was the best advice I ever received. I never respond to blogs but I got so frustrated with the Elitist vibe I was sensing when reading some of the comments.
As far as how many mics you are using. I say use 20 mics on the kit if you can. Then in mix down decide which combination gives you the sound you are looking for. I started out as an assistant for a big engineer in Nashville. We used to put mics in water bottles and coke cans near the drums. Just incase we needed them. By the way we cut mostly old school Blues and R&B.
One more thought, A Neve 1073 or 1081 can be a $3000 piece of crap if that mic pre doesn't work with a particular vocal or instrument. It's great to have the high end stuff, don't get me wrong. But what makes a good mic pre? Whatever mic pre accurately reflects what you are trying to record. It may be a UA or an API, or it may be the onboard focusrite mic pre in a Digi 001. Good luck Jim, use your ears more than your wallet.

[maineguy]

AMEN brother!

i see a line of tee shirts, "Ears not Gear!"

[drbob1a]

I'm going to come down on both sides of this issue. I think it's critical to have at least a couple of REALLY good mic preamps for the special stuff (lead guitar, vocals etc). Something you just know is going to sound great no matter what mic and what type of material you're throwing at it. It might be something completely uncolored like the RNP or something with a bit more character and scope (like the Langevin Dual Vocal Combo I use). There's an audible difference in the quality I get. Two to 4 channels of great preamps are a really good start, then have the 32 channels of Mackie in the background for micing the drum kit, the room, the band in an ensemble situation (although I can't really imagine needing 32 channels for anything). Also worth having at least 2 channels of REALLY good AD conversion if you can-Apogee Mini for example... You're right, of course, the ears and the experience makes a much bigger difference than the equipment, but it's nice to have stuff you can rely on to sound great without having to fight with it.

[emvw]

I don't mean to sound like a "gear snob". But perhaps I was not clear - my fault there.
What I really mean is that nowadays too many people just buy a bunch of gear, believing the hype that it is "pro" and it will make them sound like a commercial release. No, I did not start with a Neve: I started with very little gear - but I experimented, moved mics around, did A/B tests and used my ears to really learn how to use what I had. I also learned the physics of sound, so I understand why things do what they do in a space. That is what is so lacking today. I'm not against 20 mics on a drum kit - if you understand why each mic is there.
For the record, I have some high-end pres, but I also have the 4 pres in the Digi002 and some other "cheap" pres. But I really KNOW what they do, and I'm able to prioritize my inputs to get the most out of my gear. And I am consistently complimented on the sound of my recordings.

I second the motion for t-shirts...