Macworld Forums: Imaging a new iTunes - Macworld Forums

Jump to content

  • (8 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

Imaging a new iTunes

#57 User is offline   folklore Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 739
  • Joined: 09-August 05

Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:10 PM

rab777hp said:

However, an idea struck me, I don't want to go too in-depth, because it's hard to describe with words, but it's sort off like you fire up iTunes, and you are presented with a few buttons, kind of like if anyone has every used the app Adobe in Adobe air, where you minimize it in to a widget. And you select one and enter that app, like a player, or a store, etc.


With a multi-purpose app like iTunes, that's one of those ideas that sounds good until you actually use it. Windows CD burning software (either Easy CD Creator or Nero or both) used to be like that several years ago. You'd start the application and were immediately presented with pretty but mostly superfluous eye-candy menu asking what sort of task you were doing - audio CD, data CD, DVD, etc. If you wanted to burn a data CD and then an audio CD, you had to unintuitively exit the data burning section of the app to return to that first screen to switch tasks.

It drove me absolutely crazy. It was just another step in the way of actually getting something done with the app.
0

#58 User is offline   rab777hp Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Banned
  • Posts: 1,840
  • Joined: 11-June 08

Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:17 PM

It could be done right. You would integrate all those small apps i talked about earlier. Like having a bunch of different apps, you could get rid of the ones you didn't need. And instead of a bunch of different apps all over the place, just one app, just one item in the dock. no clutter.
0

#59 User is offline   stormko Icon

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 14-August 08

Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:23 PM

bq. "Why should I have to manually add album covers to all of my Beatles albums just because Paul McCartney and Steve Jobs can't settle their differences?"
Wow.
Anyway, I think subtitles and language options would be a great feature for video (TV shows, films). For example, it sucks to only have a dubbed version of an anime being sold on iTunes. Being able to choose language and subtitles would give bootlegs a run for their, uh, money. I think the ease of availability would make someone more likely to just purchase a show on iTunes than have to look for a specific bootlegged version on the internet.
Also, it since iTunes organizes PDFs, why not allow the app to also open one? Is't it cumbersome to have to open Preview just to view a file in iTunes?
0

#60 User is offline   rab777hp Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Banned
  • Posts: 1,840
  • Joined: 11-June 08

Posted 14 August 2008 - 06:31 PM

Mentioning The (AWESOME) Beatles, all my cover art works fine; and didn't Apple and Apple finally settle (for like the tenth time)?
0

#61 User is offline   mrrichardlewis Icon

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9
  • Joined: 29-June 08

Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:00 PM

I think iTunes is the best music management application there is, but has tried to over-extend itself a little. I would like to see some of the iTunes features moved into seperate apps so each can concentrate on 1 thing. For me, iTunes should be about music, and only music.

Video should be handled seperately (iVideo or iFlicks as someone else suggested) with a different database, stored in a different location and yet managed by the new app. It needs to have the same functionality that iTunes currently has for music ie, being able to find artwork, being able to edit info on multiple items and also a simple way of managing different resolution versions of the same file would be great for home and iPod use.

'iSync' could then handle bridging your mac with your portable devices. This could easily connect with data from iCal, iPhoto, ITunes and iVideo along with your Address Book and Mail.

As I have already said, I think iTunes is already great for managing music. The main changes I would like to see are music tagging to replace Genre. So much of my music can fit in multiple Genres but I'm limited to adding it to just one. I would like to be able to append to a comment on multiple items, rather than replacing the entire comment. And finally, as with video, I would like to see a simple way of managing different quality versions of the same file. I have about 400 albums ripped in Apple lossless for listening at home but these quickly fill up my iPod. If I could have one file show up in iTunes but the app intuitively know that when I drag a song to my iPod it should use the low quality version I would be much happier.

As for the Music Store, I think it's pretty good in its current format. I don't buy music from it but do use it to browse and see whats new. I'm a bit old school and if I like a song enough I'll usually take a punt on the entire album anyway so I stick to buying CDs. They can be ripped at what ever quality you decide, not what apple offers, and become their own backup. Having the boxes, the sleeve notes and browsing in a brick and mortar store all add to experience and make it much more satisfying than purchasing online.

Anyway, thats my two cents.
0

#62 User is offline   mdawson Icon

  • Veteran
  • PipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 3,792
  • Joined: 31-August 04

Posted 14 August 2008 - 07:59 PM

iTunes is as the User Does, but Documentation Would Help

For the most part, I have little complaint about iTunes, as I have found that iTunes is as powerful and usable as the user is organized. On the other hand there are a number of the ?little things? that could be improved for better user experience. In reality, anyone that goes about handling a collection in an off-the-cuff manner is going to experience issues should their collection grow beyond a certain tipping point. I find that playlists are often underutilized by people with small, let alone sizable, iTunes libraries; I have seen enough shared libraries on the lab network to see this first hand time-after-time over the past 3+ years as students have come and gone.

Fortunately for me, I am someone anal by nature when it comes to my collections?I like to be able to easily find things once I have more than a few?and after juggling a large media collection for the better part of two decades, by the time I first started using iTunes in my lab back in 2005, one of the first things I did with the 2,500+ select tracks that I ripped from my CD collection was experiment with the organizational features in iTunes. By the time I began ripping the entirety of my CD collection onto my Mac at home in early 2006, I had already come up with a folder/playlist tree structure for organizing my music as well as a ?standard? for the metadata entered for each track (e.g., artists in the Last, First format for proper sorting, genre/style format based on information from AllMusic.com, 300 x 300 pixel cover art scanned from the liner notes, etc.).

Alas, as has been noted, even with the amount of playing around and organizing that I did, some features that have been a part of iTunes for some time were lost on me and I am far from a novice computer user. One such feature, which is not a major priority so much as a curiosity was the ability to browse by artist/album as one can on an iPod. It was not until a few months ago when someone else made an inquiry about this that I became aware that in List or Album view you can activate the category browser. So now, should I ever be in the mood to listen to an album all the way through, I now know that the horrid option of creating artist- or album-specific playlists is unnecessary.

A major part of the problem here is that iTunes, in fact most of the iApps and other pre-installed goodies from Apple, despite their user friendliness lack adequate documentation. Apple, and a number of software developers, could take a page out of Macromedia?s book on built-in help and tutorials. Every version of Macromedia?s Web Studio that I have owed had wonderful tutorials built into the software to get a new user up and running or to introduce legacy users to new features. In fact, the Studio tutorials for Dreamweaver, Fireworks, Flash and Freehand, seemed like something that would have come out of Jobs? II Apple.

Simply put, it is no longer 1984 and despite how user friendly many of Apple?s application can be, they, like many applications today, no longer include user manuals. As such, either the developer needs to implement built-in tutorials or at the very least make sure that search-based help covers every single feature of the software in detail.

Audiphile Rule #2: Separates Are Better

The addition of multimedia support has only made iTunes more complex, especially for the casual user. iTunes should be just that, an audio media manger and Apple should have introduced a second application for video content. From the user perspective Apple could create an iMedia suite with and interactive (smart) source list. The iMedia suite would consist of three apps. The first would be the legacy iTunes for music (user library and internet radio), podcasts and audiobooks. iWatch, or whatever Apple coins, would be for managing video content and iSmart would be for anything related specifically to the iPhone (Apple?s smartphone). Much more separation than that will only serve to introduce complexities in the opposite direction.

To make things easy for the user, the source list would sense which iMedia apps are open and only include items related to those apps in the source list when the accompanying application is active. For instant, I loathe cell phones and I do not download media or collect video content, so my (smart) source list would only contain items related to audio. Should I start collecting television shows and movies then when in iTunes the source list would include a ?Video? in the source list under ?Library?, if I select that option, the Mac would automatically switch to iWatch and the source list would change to items related to video content save the Audio option under ?Library? to go back to iTunes. The Smart source list would be something like the Project Gallery in Office:mac, but better. Thus the user is never burdened with options for content that they are not utilizing at the time, but they still retain the ability to quickly access all media from a single location given which iMedia apps are open.

Complete iTunes 7?s Sorting Options

One area where iTunes has not completed the implementation of a feature is in artist sorting management. The addition of the Album Artist field and later sort fields in iTunes 7 has made it possible for those of us in the know to properly sort albums by artist in iTunes regardless of what is actually contained in the ?Artist? field without having to resort to flagging albums that are not compilations as compilations. The addition of these sorting tags is great if you only organize your music in iTunes but it leaves those of us that have enabled the ?Keep iTunes Music folder organized? option in iTunes? preferences SOL. It stands to reason that if someone has gone out of their way to select that option, which is not set by default, they chose to do so for a reason.

Now, using the iTunes 7 sorting features I could theoretically have ?Mary J. Blige? in the ?Artist? and ?Album Artist? fields and place ?Blige, Mary J.? the ?Sort Artist? and ?Sort Album Artist? fields so that her albums are correctly sorted under ?B? when browsing my music library or playlists. Good. The addition of the sort fields also means that for her debut album What?s The 411? , the title track and track 8, ?I Don?t Want To Do Anything?, that have guest artists can be properly tagged as ?Mary J. Blige featuring Grand Puba? and ?Mary J. Blige with K-Ci Hailey?, respectively. The ?Sort Artist? field has priority over the ?Artist? field and will keep those tracks properly grouped within the album block. Good again. Unfortunately this smart sorting does not translate to the artist folders in the user?s iTunes Music folder; the artist folders are still being named based on the contents of the ?Artist? field. At the very least, artist folders should have begun defaulting to naming based on the ?Album Artist? field in iTunes 7.

In this scenario described above, the tracks for Mary?s premiere album are separated into three different artist folders on the hard drive. I, and others, have always found this to be a problem from the outset with iTunes as it defeats the purpose of having music files sorted by artist then album; so much for the organized iTunes library option in iTunes? preferences. Prior to iTunes 7 this required any number of workarounds. The first was to classify the tracks as being apart of a compilation, but then the album is misfiled under iTunes Music > Compilations instead of within the appropriate artist folder. The second option, which I implemented in my iTunes library, was to forgo acknowledging guest artists and list the artist in the (Last, First) naming convention so that proper sorting occurs both within iTunes and in the iTunes Music folder.

With iTunes 7?s sorting capabilities the default naming for artist folders in organized libraries should have defaulted to the following logic:

Quote

IF SortAlbumArtist NOT empty THEN ArtistFolderName = SortAlbumArtist
ELSE IF AlbumArtist NOT empty THEN ArtistFolderName = AlbumArtist
ELSE IF SortArtist NOT empty THEN ArtistFolderName = SortArtist
ELSE ArtistFolderName = Artist


Not having iTunes respect the nature of that option I not a good thing, particularly if the user has used that organization outside of iTunes as I have. My Music Collector database links to the tracks in my iTunes music library, so if I were to fully utilize the sorting features of iTunes, thousands of links in Music Collector would be broken because the artist folders would change from their current (Last, First) naming convention to (First Last). I actually have filled the ?Album Artist? and sort fields should Apple ever complete this feature, but for now because the logic described above is not followed, I stand with the 7th revision of iTunes 7 still having to resort to a pre-iTunes 7 workaround.

Speaking of Sorting? WTF

One has to wonder what they were smoking in Cupertino when the iTunes developers decided on the Byzantine Microsoftian implementation of adding sort fields to multiple tracks. With any other tag, if you want to add say a year, cover art, etc., across several tracks all one needs to do is select the tracks to be updated, invoke the Get Info dialog and update the appropriate fields. Yet, for some reason, with the sorting fields the can only modify one track then they have to select the others they wish update then apply the sort fields. Huh? That type of New > Folder? unnecessary extra step stuff may be something that Windows users are accustomed to, but it has no place in an Apple application. The worst part is that this ?feature? is still not documented in iTunes help as of iTunes 7.7; in fact, sorting fields are not documented in iTunes help at all.

(? Anyone familiar with Windows know that creating new folders is a two-step process in Windows, but a one step process in the Mac OS. These kinds of subtle differences are part of the reason Mac users can be more productive, but applying sort fields in iTunes reverses that trend.)

Better Library Management

In terms of library management, many others have validly griped about the way in which iTunes handles multiple libraries. Granted, in the general case, if one properly organizes their music library by using folders/playlists and properly tags their content instead of relying on whatever Gracenote or the iTunes Store provides, then there is no real need for a user to have more than a singular library on their primary computer. On the other hand in those instances where someone wishes to quickly switch to an alternate library for whatever reason?for instance on a family computer where there may be a shared library for all users along with personal music libraries that are account specific?it should be as easy to switch libraries from within iTunes as it is to switch user accounts in OS X.

Allow iPods to Play Nice With Folders

The last incomplete/smi-implemented feature in iTunes is another case of application stinginess. In iTunes, folders are recognized as (manual) smart playlists. As such, when using a feature such as Party Shuffle, folders appear in the source dropdown menu with other playlists, as they should. Unfortunately, unless Apple has addressed this in the latest models, that functionality does not carry over to iPods. As such, one has to manually create smart folders on their iPod?how many people know that this is possible let alone how to do this?that are similar to the folders in iTunes. For people with few playlists and folders, the omission of folder recognition is a minor inconvenience, but for people like me that have well over 100 playlists organized into 30+ folders and subfolders, having to manually recreate iPod-specific smart playlists or, just as bad, create redundant smart folders in iTunes is an exercise in tedium.

Dual Ripping/Downloading

In terms of overall functionality iTunes is pretty complete, so there is not much in the way of new features that I can think of short of morphing it into a fully blown media management database package like Delicious Vinyl, Music Collector, etc. I do have to admit that while that being able to catalog my physical media in the same application in which the music is ripped to the hard drive is nice, a great many iTunes users at this point and as time goes on, will have little to no physical media to catalog.

On the other hand, a nice addition to iTunes would be the ability to create a dual library. Huh? What I mean is have iTunes have the ability to create a single library with both a high quality and portable version of songs added to iTunes. For instance, I chose to rip my CD collection at 160 Kbps when I started building my iTunes library. The reason for this was not because of the capacity of the hard drives on what was then my new Power Mac G5?I could always upgrade to larger hard drives?but due to the unknown of how many songs would make their way to my iPod. While I knew that larger capacity iPods would be coming down the pike, I did not see myself needing to (rapidly) replace the 60GB iPod I purchased a few months before I got my G5.

Using information from my old MusiCatalog database and the roughly 2,500 songs I ripped to my work PC, I estimated that I would actually listen to upwards of 6,000 to 7,000 of the nearly 19,000 songs (32 to 37 percent) I have on CD and vinyl. Thus, I attempted to balance that number with the bit rate at which I would rip songs into iTunes; basically a blind attempt to maximize the bit rate (quality) for a given number of songs within a fixed capacity (60 GB).

Well now that all of my CDs are ripped and I now know that I have 3,050 of 13,548 selected (22%). I also know that a lower percentage of songs will be selected from my vinyl collection because with few exceptions, nearly every single LP I have has since been supplemented with a CD version. The bulk of my vinyl collection consists of 12? singles and that translates into more media, but less select tracks. I now realize that I could have ripped my music at a much higher bit rate. Of course, for the sake of battery life, 160 Kbps is perhaps good enough for my iPod(s) regardless, but a (much) higher bit rate would be desirable for playing music at home on higher-end equipment.

It would be nice if iTunes had the ability to perform a double rip (double download for iTS) so that the user can easily add a high and moderate quality of their music into iTunes. That is, when you rip a CD, you would have the option to do standard single rip, as iTunes does now, or dual rip. If the user selects the dual rip then iTunes will rip two versions of the CD?s tracks in a single session. The first version will be a high quality format and bit rate, say 256 Kbps AAC or Apple Lossless. The second copy of the track would be a more portable version such as 128Kbps AAC (space conservation) or 192 Kbps MP3 (universal compatibility).

To prevent confusion, the tracks would only appear once in iTunes listings, but the software would recognize that the tracks refer to two files. Therefore, if information is updated for a given track or tracks, both audio files are simultaneously updated. Also, iTunes would select the appropriate format for playback. For instance, a user could rip a CD as Apple Lossless/160 Kbps AAC. When music is played via iTunes on their computer, the Apple Lossless versions of the songs are used. When the user syncs their iPod, the AAC files are transferred to the device. (In the case of the iTunes Store, if you purchase and iTunes+ track, you get both the 256 Kbps and a 128 Kbps version of the song.)

Adding a feature such as this eliminates the need to have two separately ripped libraries with different formats/bit rates. Also, the nightmare of keeping two similar libraries properly synchronized or worse yet, having a single library with duplicate entries is eliminated.

Conclusion

As I stated at the beginning, iTunes is for the most part quite complete from my perspective. Of course I do not have video content, audiobooks, podcasts or iPhone content so I see iTunes primarily as what it should be: an audio manager. I think that if Apple separates the major media types, fixes/completes the little things and includes excellent documentation iTunes could be that much better.
0

#63 User is offline   MichaelC Icon

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 14-August 08

Posted 14 August 2008 - 08:07 PM

I'd love to see the folders feature extended to the iPod itself. Classical listeners are likely to prefer looking under Mozart/Chamber/String Quintet or some such. As it is now, you have to stand on your head to get a sensible iPod presentation.
0

#64 User is offline   samrod Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 441
  • Joined: 31-August 04

Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:14 PM

The Mac OS was called "System" until version 7. It was renamed to "Mac OS" at 8.

Mac OS X wasn't as much a rename as just a major new version.
0

#65 User is offline   Chris Breen Icon

  • Advanced Member
  • Icon
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 3,909
  • Joined: 11-December 00

Posted 14 August 2008 - 09:17 PM

samrod said:

The Mac OS was called "System" until version 7. It was renamed to "Mac OS" at 8.


Ah, you've just lost your bar bet. ;) In truth, Mac OS 7.6 was the first use of the term.

#66 User is offline   thom Icon

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 15-August 08

Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:00 AM

h6. Rhywun wrote:
> A dedicated 'Composer' browsing column for classical music enthusiasts.

I put the composer in the Artist field on all my classical music. I generally don't care who actually performed a piece.

+That's
why I wrote "for classical music enthusiasts". For those whose
classical collection consists of "x's Greatest Hits", this is obviously
not an issue.+

*

I'm as serious a classical music enthusiast as they come (it's my profession as well as my hobby, my iTunes library is almost exclusively classical repertoire, and I care about who plays the music as well as who composed it) and I also have some database experience.

I strongly recommend all serious classical music enthusiasts put the composer information in the Artist field and the artist information in the Composer field. I also advocate that the Album field be used for work titles and actual album information be stored in the Grouping field.

Why? Go into the iTunes folder on your hard drive and see how iTunes organises your tracks. The hierarchy is: a folder for each Artist, then Album folders within these, then tracks or "songs" inside Album folders. That hierarchy suits pop very well. What's the equivalent hierarchy in classical music? We think of Composer, then Work, then movements or tracks or "songs". So the only way to have iTunes manage classical repertoire in a logical and organised way is to mentally "map" the folders to the appropriate thing in the classical hierarchy. That means storing composers as "artists" (and artists as "composers") and works as "albums".

So my request for iTunes is this… Don't add a Composer option in the "browser" window. That's just a superficial "visual" solution and doesn't solve the underlying problem. No! Instead give us (in Preferences) the option of what I call "Classical mapping". Under Classical mapping iTunes would relable the fields (without changing the underlying structure of the database) so that there wouldn't be a disconnect between the name of the field and the information that the classical music enthusiast wants to store there.

0

#67 User is offline   sbwolves72 Icon

  • Newbie
  • Pip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 2
  • Joined: 25-June 08

Posted 15 August 2008 - 05:51 AM

I would like to see the iPod and Iphone features separated from the iTunes interface so they could both be used more efficiently in Hard disk mode...and they would have the software onboard to know types of files, where they go and how to play them. This would allow me to use a 160GB classic as an actual backup drive, if only for music, as well as a media player. having to choose between those modes feels cumbersome.

Additionally, it might be possible to simplify each level of the iTunes experience as a suite of 'mini' programs...one for movies; one for TV; one for Music; one a dedicated streaming interface, etc... an iTunes suite (similar to iLife).
0

#68 User is offline   zeroblizzard Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 39
  • Joined: 04-February 08

Posted 15 August 2008 - 06:11 AM

I completely agree with your "move library" command idea. However, for your album art problem, the easiest way I can think of to solve it is to use the amazon album art search widget, hit the button on it, and then go to "get info" with all of your tracks from one album selected, and then change it all to that one album art.



I think that a great idea would be for a revolutionized help engine, just like the one in Leopard, which shows you how to fix the problems by opening all the tabs for you automatically, and highlighting the appropraite boxes. In order to integrate this into iTunes, it would be cool if they treated the iTunes search bar into something more like Finder, so that the tracks and movies that you would be normally searching for show up closest to the search box, with help topics appearing lowerest on the lists, in order from most relevent to least.
0

#69 User is offline   sheilanolan Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 188
  • Joined: 15-July 08

Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:20 AM

This may be a simple thing, but when I import CDs of audiobooks, I'd like to be able to move them to the Audiobooks section in the library. As far as I can see, only audiobooks bought from iTunes can be placed in this section. At the moment, the majority of my audiobooks are in the music section which makes them harder to find.
0

#70 User is offline   consumer_x Icon

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 58
  • Joined: 18-November 05

Posted 15 August 2008 - 07:39 AM

Chris Breen said:

What I listed are features that iTunes users commonly want to use ? I get questions like this all the time. They're "advanced" because they're hard to find, not because they're unwanted.



Many of those requested tasks are also explained in the iTunes Help.

My grandfather is 80+ and he loves iTunes. He is also a Windows user.
0

  • (8 Pages)
  • +
  • « First
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

7 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 7 guests, 0 anonymous users