[icerabbit]

And, don't forget the Apple USB Modem. A remote is now extra too. In my wife's MB it was included.

My 13" Toshiba (purchased for 1/2 the cost of a MacBook, which I didn't find value in) has 3 USB, 4-pin firewire, card reader and modem. It has a regular keyboard. The screen is not great (glossy - where I really prefer matte) but I only paid half price for the same hardware essentially that Apple gives and more I/O. So I am not complaining and while Apple uses different casing and a slot loading drive, you have to figure there is some wiggle room for I/O.

Anyhow. I agree with your sentiment of form over function.

[timglasgow]

i love these articles. Well done. But i'm left with a question: Do DisplayPort interfaces carry audio like HDMI does? If not, why choose DisplayPort over HDMI?

[natmusak]

timglasgow said:

i love these articles. Well done. But i'm left with a question: Do DisplayPort interfaces carry audio like HDMI does? If not, why choose DisplayPort over HDMI?

Well, is audio over DisplayPort really that useful? Most monitors don't have very good built-in speakers, so it seems like it'd make more sense to simply plug your sound system directly into your MacBook or MacBook Pro's built-in digital optical audio-out port (i.e. the headphone jack). HDMI's audio support seems nice, but it's only useful if you have a receiver with HDMI-in for each device; HDMI-out provides the same high quality audio, but no surround sound systems use HDMI cables as that would be incredibly expensive, so you're outputting high quality audio to...an HDTV...which likely has rather basic integrated speakers. What's the point?

Apple didn't go with HDMI mainly due to size and the licensing fees they'd have to pay for using the interface, the latter of which they avoid using DisplayPort and the former of which they've already reduced by shrinking DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort, thus allowing for a smaller port that costs less to manufacture and takes up much less space than HDMI or full-size DisplayPort.

[stevebert]

Yes you can use separate HDMI video and audio via patch cords to a separate amplifier, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having digital video AND digital audio on the same cable. DVI->HDMI with separate audio cables is what you have to do TODAY (no workaround). Having both video and audio in the same cable would be the benefit of the new standard, if manufacturers like Apple implement that in their devices.

[natmusak]

stevebert said:

Yes you can use separate HDMI video and audio via patch cords to a separate amplifier, but that kind of defeats the purpose of having digital video AND digital audio on the same cable. DVI->HDMI with separate audio cables is what you have to do TODAY (no workaround). Having both video and audio in the same cable would be the benefit of the new standard, if manufacturers like Apple implement that in their devices.

Ah, didn't know that. But are patch cables that separate HDMI audio and HDMI video commonly used? And aren't such things mainly only useful if you lack a receiver? This is of course ignoring the fact that few monitors use HDMI and likewise, few people hook up their computers to their HDMI-equipped HDTVs.

[timglasgow]

If i want good sound, yeah - i'll use optical feeding my Apogee interface. But for watching YouTube videos and doing iChat video, crappy speakers in a display are handy. HDMI would be great because it's sort of a standard on TV's now, but after reading more about DisplayPort, i like it. First of all, it can carry up to 8 channels of audio, and can also do high bit depths and sample rates. Since the new Apple LCD is purported to have speakers but has no audio input cable that i could see, i suspect that it does send audio over the DisplayPort. Check it out:

http://en.wikipedia....iki/DisplayPort

Anyway, i'm stuck with it now. this is my first post typing from my new MacBook Pro! All is good so far.

[stevebert]

Well, as wikipedia notes, the "up to 8 channels" of audio data is defined by the spec, but optional. It's up to manufacturer's to implement the standard in their devices. I haven't heard any indications that the miniDisplayPort on the new MacBooks carry anything but digital video.

[stevebert]

There's no way to send HDMI video and audio from your computer as far as I know. What I was talking about is using the commonly-available DVI-HDMI cable for video, along with standard 1/8" headphone to stereo RCA cable for audio. Using this combination you can run video to the TV via HDMI, but audio has to go to a separate amplifier or home theater system. This is what I do at home to watch movies from my MacBook Pro on the big screen. What would be nice is if DisplayPort could provide this in a single cable. But I'm not holding my breath...

[John__B]

natmusak said:

Apple didn't go with HDMI mainly due to size and the licensing fees they'd have to pay for using the interface, the latter of which they avoid using DisplayPort and the former of which they've already reduced by shrinking DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort, thus allowing for a smaller port that costs less to manufacture and takes up much less space than HDMI or full-size DisplayPort.

Also, the Apple 30" Cinema Display can't be driven from an HDMI connection at its native resolution.

[natmusak]

stevebert said:

There's no way to send HDMI video and audio from your computer as far as I know. What I was talking about is using the commonly-available DVI-HDMI cable for video, along with standard 1/8" headphone to stereo RCA cable for audio. Using this combination you can run video to the TV via HDMI, but audio has to go to a separate amplifier or home theater system. This is what I do at home to watch movies from my MacBook Pro on the big screen. What would be nice is if DisplayPort could provide this in a single cable. But I'm not holding my breath...

Hah, yeah, that's where I was coming from too. So we're in agreement then. :D

However, I don't understand the last couple sentences. What would be the point of Mini DisplayPort offering audio and video in one cable when you want to hook up your MacBook to both your HDTV and your separate surround sound amplifier? If it's all in one cable, you're delivering sound to your HDTV's built-in speakers (if your HDTV has any), rather than your sound system. See what I'm saying?

[stevebert]

You make the assumption that everyone wants to watch content on their HDTV over a separate sound system. Some folks may not have a separate home theater system for the separate sound channels, or as in my case, prefer to watch some content like TV shows over the TV's built-in speakers. I think there's a legitimate use for a single standard that transfers digital video and audio from the Mac to an HDTV. Unfortunately it's HDMI and I don't think Apple will every put one on the Mac. And yes, I have an AppleTV, but I don't always want to spend the time transcoding content to upload from the computer.

[timglasgow]

{quote:title=stevebert wrote:}You make the assumption that everyone wants to watch content on their HDTV over a separate sound system. Some folks may not have a separate home theater system for the separate sound channels, or as in my case, prefer to watch some content like TV shows over the TV's built-in speakers.{quote}

Or, in another common case, they want to have volume control on their TV remote, so they feed the sound system from the TV's variable outputs, selecting the sound source from the gazillion inputs to the TV. Audio-Over-HDMI works well like this, seriously cutting down on cable clutter.

[natmusak]

@stevebert and timglasgow,

I see your points. Hmm, well, while Mini DisplayPort apparently doesn't do audio, if the end result you're looking for is audio from your computer playing through your HDTV's built-in speakers, couldn't you use a Toslink optical cable? Most HDTVs have optical-in, right? I know it's not as nice as having a single cable, just trying to problem solve at this point. :)

[timglasgow]

But according to the spec, DisplayPort does do audio. Up to 8 channels! So there is no problem to solve! :-)