[MacPro2007]

Just want to compliment you and encourage you regarding your initiative. Nothing can beat knowing what you want to do, the path you want to follow in life. Don't let anything discourage you.

[MacPro2007]

I think the article makes a lot of sense. I also "suspect" that Apple, Inc. has decided to start discouraging the very phenomenon they created: Mac fans.

As a retired purchasing exec, I fully support the view that "consumers" of any product are no more foolish than when they adopt "brand loyalty" to the degree which some Mac users have done. If Apple is depriving these foolish people of "The Show" - then they must know how disheartening and discouraging that will be to the phony "Mac movement." Such unpaid promoters are no longer needed, you see.

This does nothing to harm the Mac's reputation as a reliable and useful TOOL. If you want the best tool (at present) then buy a Mac.

[Duncan8146]

Are you saying we are Trekies who's convention has been cancelled?

[Steve_S]

MichaelM said:

Steve_S - I'll answer some of your points starting with .mac, Are you kidding me it's a joke! Lets start with oh I don't know a little thing like being able to display the count of unread vs read e-mails, it used to, it can't now. How about when you select a range of e-mails to delete and it ignores the e-mails you highlight and instead selects from the bottom of the list up to where you last clicked. I get complaints about that all the time.

So, are you experiencing this issue yourself or are you just working a helpdesk taking complaints from users just graduating from Computers 101 class? I haven't experienced this issue. Though, I usually use the mail.app program. When I'm away and only have access to a Windows box, I do use the MobileMe version. I've deleted ranges of e-mails and you may be surprised to here, it deleted just what I selected. Imagine that!

>Perhaps it's the way it can't seem to keep the address book in sync with the address book application, or regularly duplicates events (yes I know that too is a Sync issue but not to the lay user, it's all part of the same thing to most people).

Again, what can I say, I sync across multiple Macs, an iPod and an iPhone without sync issues. I guess I must be very lucky...

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OS stability? Again it is you who seem to be showing your inexperience on Macs. I could not care less about the stability of an MS Windows PC. I'm talking about Mac OS against Mac OS.

Well, let's be clear here. I asked questions because you made extremely vague claims without providing any detail as to what you were talking about. You also said that you are buying a Windows laptop because you needed to have at least one machine that was working or something like that.

>It used to be rock solid and resistant to crashes. Having worked as an Admin since the Mac 128 and by the way I have a Lisa in the garage and pretty much every other Mac model ever made (I should open a museum). It used to be a simple matter to set up and install the software and for the most part forget about it.

Huh? Are you trying to claim that the "classic" Mac OS was more stable? The classic Mac OS was many things, but stability was not it's strong point. Without basic features such as memory protection, it never had a chance of being very stable since any errant program could easily take down the entire OS. Crashing and rebooting the classic Mac OS was simply a way of life. Fundamentally OS X is much more stable and it makes sense given that it, like other modern OSs do have protected memory.

Next comes the question of administration. It sounds to me like you're having a hard time adjusting to a multiuser operating system, especially one based on Unix. I can understand that, Unix is a bit more complicated than what you're used to. For me, I've always preferred the Mac GUI, but I've spent much time as a Unix based developer. OS X was quite natural for me I suppose. Anyway, what piece of software are you having trouble installing if I may ask? I'm having trouble thinking of an example of an application with a complicated installer, especially for someone who claims to be an administrator.

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Macs today routinely and randomly misplace files, loose preferences,

Examples? Why do my Macs never suffer from these problems? Is it luck again?

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have rampant application crashes (yes you can blame that on the Application publishers too) but when we used to be able to brag about not having to spent much time supporting the Mac is simply is not true anymore.

Application crashes are always the fault/responsibility of the third party software publisher. The only exception would be if an application crashes after a new major OS release. In those cases, the software publisher should have an updated version available for download. If not, that's their fault as well.

>I spend and my IT staff spends just as much time fixing Mac related problems as we do PC ones and thats the point.

I've yet to see one study which backs up your specific claim. Every study I've seen to date says exactly the opposite. You may well spend as much time with Mac issues, but that could also be due to your user base lack the most basic skills. It could be due to a lack of training provided by your company, etc.

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It seems to me it is you who is the light weight. If you only use your Mac for cruising the net and playing iTunes sure it runs fine.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to get personal here. Again, if you're having problems, why don't you explain the areas where you're having problems. While I certainly do the basics like web, e-mail, iTunes, etc. I also do gaming (currently playing COD4, Skyfighter 1945, Emire at War), video editing (FCE and sometimes iMovie/iDVD), photography (iPhoto and Aperture), Office productivity (MS Office, iWork, OpenOffice), web development (Photoshop, Pagespinner, Transmit), I've done some light development in XCode as well. With my web development, I've written quite a few shell scripts to automate my workflow, etc. I also have been running Folding@Home in the background for a few years. So, I'm not sure what your criteria is for a "hard core" user is, but I'd be interested in seeing your definition so that I will know where I should be having problems. ;)

But as any hard core long time user will tell you the Mac is not nearly as stable as it used to be, the hardware fails more than it used to, it is just not the premium machine it used to be. I'm not comparing any of my thoughts against a PC.

Well, might have a point there. I've used Macs since 1984 (Franklin Ace and Apple //e before that) and I've never had problems with my Apple hardware until my 2006 Mac Pro. The ATI 1900 video card was eventually defective. The problem would only manifest itself when pushed hard during gaming, but it was a problem and the card had to be replaced. It was under warrantee fortunately. So, based on my one defective part in all these years, I'd have to admit that it happened more recently. Though, I'm not really sure that proves your point very much as it was an isolated incident.

I don't blindly drink the cool-aid, I instead point out that things could be better, and have been in the past. And can be again!

Honestly, the MobileMe introduction was a fiasco, everybody agrees to that. I'll even go along and agree that it's not all it could be. But, your comments about Apple not being innovative and Macs having such stability problems is pure nonsense. If the problems you mention were in any way common, Apple's market share would be rapidly decreasing instead of increasing.

Anyone who claims they have not had a crash in years is in fact a liar plan and simple.

Okay, would you please go on to prove that my machine (not just an application) has crashed? Really, your comment is just absurd. Since you have resorted to calling me a liar, I can very easily indicate that you must be incompetent if your machines crash so often.

And as I said before I have access to pretty much all models and all ages going back to the beginning and right up to the most current ones.

Yeah, and by the sounds of it, you must seriously muck them up royally if they crash as often as you claim. Seriously, do a poll on this thread or something to see if it's just you having these troubles.

My older Macs rarely crash, the newer ones have issues all the time. I still use a Twentieth Anniversary Mac as a music server and it has run for years for example without having to be rebooted unless I take it down for some reason. My brand new MacBook Pro requires a forced reboot about every two weeks.

I just recently gave away a G4 mirror drive system. On the Mac side, I have a first generation Intel Mac Pro (purchased November 2006) and a MacBook Pro (purchased last spring). They don't crash and they are used constantly by my family.

Vista may suck but that does not make OSX perfect.

Nobody ever said OS X was perfect. But, I do claim you are painting an extremely bad picture which is simply unrealistic. I'll stop short of calling you a liar because I'm willing to accept that there is incompetence involved. ;) Seriously, if you know as much as you claim to, you have unbelievably bad luck with hardware and I can't imagine you'd find the same results if you conducted a poll with Mac uses in a forum like this.

And again my point, Apple has become sloppy, and has allowed poor quality into the OS as well as the hardware.

I agree that Apple could benefit from more a significant QA department, especially with regard to application software. However, I disagree with your claims in terms of overall OS stability. Also, regarding OS X as compared to the classic Mac OS. One thing is clear... the pace of development has been much higher since OS X came along. with the classic Mac OS, very little had changed for many years. This has resulted in things like Spaces and Stacks not being fully worked out upon initial release, but it doesn't mean the OS itself is more prone to crashing.

[MacPro2007]

I am saying that there is a well-documented, well-reported segment of Mac owners who go farther than simple enthusiasm for Apple, Inc. and its products. They are the ones (just like some Windows box owners) who put up (1) praise & endorsements which they are unqualified to make and (2) over-zealous attacks on those who might offer criticism or complaint regarding Apple and/or it's products. Those who have attended past MacWorld Expos are quite familiar with the wild cheers and applause this group emits at the first appearance of CEO Jobs and at every "revelation" he offers. Mr. Jobs - a superb salesman - clearly played to this contingent during his "legendary" keynote addresses. The very term "keynote address" is indicative: the actual term for the event is a product presentation.

As noted in the article: there's been a pretty obvious loss of synchronization between the dates of the expo and Apple's ability to come up with finished projects "just in time." So it is logical that this portion of Mac owners who are overenthusiastic were also getting out of synch and even aggravating Apple with their expectations. Also logical: Apple (showing its legendary sense of timing) may have decided to cut the "Mac fanboys" loose.

That's not to say that trade shows are "bad" in any sense. But comparing the MacWorld Expo to other trade shows (one I'm familiar with is the North American Auto Show in Detroit): there are no wild shouts and applause for any other salesmen or products out there. These shows are fun-with-glitter, no doubt, but should not become "religious experiences" as they have been for - some- Mac owners. So I for one breath a sigh of relief over Apple's pullout - for the sake of consumer sanity and welfare.

[micaelm]

I'm noticing that Macworld has been critical of recent Apple products, and rightly so. Dropping firewire, the glossy reflective screens on the Macbooks, pointing out that the new products are actually slower than older ones - maybe somebody got pissed off and retaliated? Nah, too simple...