[itommac]

I posted saying "There is nothing in this bundle that has any ingenuity or new thinking for two decades." While other games on the Mac you mentioned maybe nice looking, I am saying there is no ingenuity nor new ideas. Check out my posting on #11 on Dec 20, 2008 9:40 PM. It speaks to one example of the quality and new approaches that Electronic Arts (EA) made with its Pinball Construction Set which used point and click and drag and drop ease of use in 1983.

The year was 1983 but there was nothing primitive about the graphics. Go to this URL and read William Cassidy's two page description and commentary of EA's Pinball Construction Set:

http://archive.games...eptember02/pcs/

After reading Mr. Cassidy's article you will appreciate the ingenuity and new approaches 25 years ago.

I like some of the current games and I do play them on my March 2008 17" Macbook Pro. I just wish more programs for the Mac were available with new approaches instead of warmed over concepts.

I did not mean to offend anybody. So I am sorry you were displeased with my postings.

Happy Computing~!

[droslovinia1]

But you do know that this is an "anniversary" release, right? It's a celebration of where one of the key players in Mac games has been and what they've done for us. No, it's not Fallout 3, but it's also not much money for a lot of fun.

[hayesk]

Everyone give itommac a break. His only fault is not addressing a few things:
- graphics designers for games expect to be paid. $19 for 6 games is not going to pay for "modern" graphics
- older games had to focus more on fun gameplay because graphics were more limited.
- the anniversary bundle is a look back at Ambrosia's offerings over the past several years, not an example of modern gaming.

Everyone is allowed to like different things. Some us realize that older games that were actually fun will always be fun to play. Others find enjoyment in whatever marketing tells us is the state of the art in computer gaming.

Personally, I believe if a game is fun, it will always be fun. If it isn't fun after several years, then you have to ask yourself what you enjoyed about the game in the first place. Kudos to Ambrosia for this bundle.

[kimbarator]

I try to understand the frustration of bleeding-edge gamers who want to be electrified by the outrageously new and different.

But a lot of these older Ambrosia games are really a lot of fun!



I just hope that they will PLEASE update BARRACK for current machines--that game is absurdly fun to play!

[Peter Cohen]

I may be speaking out of turn, but I remember bringing up the subject of an updated Barrack to the folks at Ambrosia a while back. If I recall the conversation correctly, I believe it has something to do with the game's code base -- that it would, in essence, need to be rewritten from scratch in order to run on new systems. I may be wrong, of course.

[bastion]

itommac said:

These games are retreads of lame games from the 1980s or perhaps 1990s.. There is nothing in this bundle that has any ingenuity or new thinking for two decades. I don't get why with all the power we have in our Macs no one can put out a game that doesn't look like it was made for the Commodore 64 or Atari 20+ years ago.

Speaking as someone who actually used C64s and Atari consoles 25 years ago - in fact, I just got rid of my 5200 this year - I'd point out that these put to shame the best those systems were capable of in terms of graphics and gameplay. They're dated, yes, but excessive hyperbole serves no one.

[bastion]

itommac said:

I posted saying "There is nothing in this bundle that has any ingenuity or new thinking for two decades." While other games on the Mac you mentioned maybe nice looking, I am saying there is no ingenuity nor new ideas. Check out my posting on #11 on Dec 20, 2008 9:40 PM. It speaks to one example of the quality and new approaches that Electronic Arts (EA) made with its Pinball Construction Set which used point and click and drag and drop ease of use in 1983.

The year was 1983 but there was nothing primitive about the graphics.

I still have my copy of Pinball Construction Set. In fact, I have it both for the Apple II and the Mac. (The Mac version's disk label says "Requires 128k and a mouse.") The statement that "there was nothing primitive about the graphics" does not dine at the same table as reality. The standard hires graphics of the Apple II version couldn't help but be primitive because of the low number of colors available and quirks in the way colors were actually represented.

That said, the Double Hi-Res game Airheart was probably the most impressive thing I've ever seen on an 8-bit machine.

For what it's worth, I think you're missing a large part of the point of Ambrosia's offerings. Many of them are explicitly intended to serve a market for nostalgia. They know they're just polished versions of Asteroids, Centipede and what have you; that's on purpose. If you're not in that market that's okay, but that market certainly does exist.

[Peter Cohen]

bastion said:

That said, the Double Hi-Res game Airheart was probably the most impressive thing I've ever seen on an 8-bit machine.

Aw, man. The guy who made Airheart was the same one who made Choplifter, arguably one of the most beloved Apple II games ever. We're still seeing Choplifter clones, now on the iPhone. :)

Did you ever play Typhoon Thompson on the Atari ST or the Amiga? It was a remake of Airheart, with a lot of the stuff that Dan Gorlin had to toss out because of technical limitation on the Apple II. It was suh-weet!

[itommac]

The statement that
"there was nothing primitive about the graphics" does not dine at the
same table as reality. The standard hires graphics of the Apple II
version couldn't help but be primitive because of the low number of
colors available and quirks in the way colors were actually represented.

I wouldn't know about the Apple II because I used a Commodore 64, 128 and Commodore Amiga. I'm sure yourpoint is valid. I had an Apple IIe at work but games could not be played on it. ::darnit:::

You wrote, "For what it's worth, I
think you're missing a large part of the point of Ambrosia's offerings.
Many of them are explicitly intended to serve a market for nostalgia" You are right! I am not interested in nostalgia. Beat me, Whip me. Tar and feather me. I am GUILTY as charged. I also apologized in a previous posting saying I had no intention of offending anyone. I still apologize if you or anyone else has taken offense to my desire for new games that are ingenious and reflect new, unique thinking of game approaches.

I'm not saying the old days or nowadays are better. All I'm saying is that in 2008 retro games might be a good bundle for others who enjoy them but I am unhappy with the state of the NEW games because I expect more imagination, ingenuity, and differentiation in 2008 games.

I remember one game in the 1980's that I used to enjoy playing which was a crime and punishment game on a Commodore where the player is presented with evidence, motive, rap sheet, etc. and then was expected to give an appropriate sentence within the uniform code for sentencing. It was different and ingenious because the criminals were always guilty,There was no chasing them and shooting them.

Rather it was the sentence that the player had to judge appropriately within the accepted sentencing guidelines. While other games make you a cop, this one back in the 1980s made you a judge and your score depended on your job as a judge. That was a new way of thinking I haven't seen in decades. It was a great relief from shoot 'em ups.

Best wishes to you and all here for happy holidays and, as always, Happy Computing~! /Tom aka itommac

[Peter Cohen]

This bundle of Ambrosia games may not be the best collection to base one's opinion on, regarding the current state of modern gaming. As another poster points out, they are, by and large, intended specifically as homages to classic arcade games.

I'll agree with you that many modern games don't have either the gameplay or the creativity that we got "back in the day," but that's not a referendum on Ambrosia's games, specifically. Just a cranky old man talking about how much fun I had when I walked five miles to the arcade with only a single shiny quarter in my pocket, in the snow, uphill, both ways.

And you rotten kids get off my lawn!

[samrod]

Thank you!

You hear that Ambrosia? Update Barrack!

Forget the fact that it's really fun and addictive. Try this out.

After burning away a couple hours debugging JS (or whatever your language of choice may be) with no luck, watch TV for 30 - 60 mins to deactivate the analytical and logical areas of your mind, then play Barrack for about a half hour, and then return to your code. It's like steroids for the mind. :D

[samrod]

Isn't that exactly why Apple created the Carbon API and the Carbon Dating tool?

I may be oversimplifying the issue, but replace Barrack's non-Carbon code with Carbon (or Cocoa) code, test it, and sell it.

Or, write it from scratch. Drop one of the r's and slap Obama's face on it for some sleazy publicity and recoup the development costs in no time.

Yeewww sicken me.

What about Robotron? Know what I'd love on my quad 2.6Ghz Mac Pro with 7GB of memory running Leopard? I want Hard Hat Mac, Serpentine, Zaxxon, Burgertime, Q-bert, Sammy Lightfoot, Aztec (Enter if you dare!), Dino Eggs, Load Runner, Prince of Persia, Choplifter, and Frogger.

Anyone remember playing Castle Wolfenstein on a TRS-80 with the voice synthesis?

I seem to feel nostalgic for some reason.

My first word processor: Apple Writer II
I learned to type on Mastertype
I was obsessed with Raise the Flags (hangman game) and Mix & Match where you combine different Sesame Street characters into one.
First music program: Electric Duet

] catalogue
] run electric duet

Amazing what we could do without a hard drive or mouse.

Sorry, I digress :(

[Peter Cohen]

samrod said:

Isn't that exactly why Apple created the Carbon API and the Carbon Dating tool?

Hey, Mr. Smarty Programmer Man, take it up with Ambrosia, not me. ;)

Quote

What about Robotron? Know what I'd love on my quad 2.6Ghz Mac Pro with 7GB of memory running Leopard? I want Hard Hat Mac, Serpentine, Zaxxon, Burgertime, Q-bert, Sammy Lightfoot, Aztec (Enter if you dare!), Dino Eggs, Load Runner, Prince of Persia, Choplifter, and Frogger.

Many of these games I play in perfect arcade reproduction via MacMAME. And for many others I have experimented with the fine work of Mr. Richard Bannister and his emulation software.

Quote

Anyone remember playing Castle Wolfenstein on a TRS-80 with the voice synthesis?

Bah, I used to program my own math games with spaceships firing lasers in them via BASIC on a TRS-80 Model 1 with a cassette drive.

I miss the hobbyist days!