[Macworld]

Post your comments for First Look: FileMaker Pro 10 here

[rjpotts]

Still no Pivot Tables. Why do I need to export my data to Excel to do a Pivot Table analysis on the data. There are still no "Views/Queries". I want the ability to take a subset of data from one or more tables and treat it just like another table. Make other queries out of it, create forms and reports. Still no Graphs. If you go out and spend $300 - $500 on a desktop database you should have the ability (out of the box) to add in graphs to your forms and reports. You should not have to go out and buy a third partly plug-in, or be connected to the internet in order to add graphs to the presentation layer of your database. I should not have to export it to Excel or Numbers in order to manipulate the data and produce graphs. A True Programming Environment. Yes you can create scripts dong that lookup the macro on the left, double click and fill in the blank crap. But I want a true IDE. The ability to create stored procedures and functions, to freely type in the code. Scripts are nice for people who have no clue as to what they are doing but if you are going to sell FileMaker Advanced give us more flexibility to write code. Give us objects that we can place on a Form that can be linked to a filed in a table or view. The product is to limited, needs to be re-written from the ground up. Stop wasting time on Bento and focus on making FileMaker great.

[jmincey]

RJPotts: It sounds as though you really need another product class altogether. I'm all for requesting new features and functionality from a product; but instead of requiring FileMaker be something it is not, why not consider Postgres or another open source solution?

Jeff Mincey

[PoetCSW]

Asking for what Access or 4D might have is not really asking for a new class of database. Also, a backend SQL server has absolutely no UI tools, so you still would need something to develop the frontend. (Sure, you could use REALbasic, 4D, or something else... and you still would need a decent reporting tool.)
I've used 4D and FileMaker and am almost ashamed to admit that I find myself wishing for something more like Access, VB, or Delphi on the Mac to develop user interfaces. (And yes, I know Access has issues.)
FileMaker 10 looks a lot better - a real winner. It just would be nice to have built-in graphing and some additional features from other database tools. Native UI widgets? Is 10 there yet on OS X? That matters, too.
I'm still forced to admit, FileMaker is the best desktop/single-user database tool on the Mac. It's not even a bad small office database, and I'm a heavy MySQL user for Web apps.

[AlexD]

Any word if it will have simple integration with the MAC OSX iCal and AddressBook databases like Bento does?

[rjpotts]

Thanks PoetCSW.
FileMaker and Access both are the same class of product. The both started off as desktop database packages. Similar to dBase, FoxPro and Clipper. MySQL was designed to be a poor mans Oracle or MS SQL server not a desktop database solution.
Sure I can develop PHP MySQL solutions. I can develop Oracle DB and Oracle App server solutions. I can develop MS SQL and .NET solutions. Its what I do. I'm good at it. But if I'm going to prototype something or I want a quick and dirty desktop solution I'm going to use a desktop database because you can create the tables, forms and reports in one nice little package. That's what Access is for, that is what FoxPro was for, dBase, and FileMaker. Quickly prototype your tables, drag and drop the fields onto a form or report, use a wizard and then customize the rest. They are not meant to be enterprise solutions, just solutions for an individual or a few people.
FileMaker is long in the tooth. They think that putting a shinny new interface on it will make it sell, and it might bring in some new customers. But lets face it that is all they have been doing since version 7 came out. I understand that an administrative assistant is not a database developer, that some guy who spends all his time doing page layouts in Quark or InDesign probably hasn't a clue to what an ERD is, but there are people such as myself who come from the application development world who use FileMaker or would like to use FileMaker for something more than a glorified Address Book or Invoicing App.
I have applications that I have written in Access that were meant for one or two people to use that make use of these features. I cannot bring them to FileMaker until these features exist. Just because you personally do not see the value of a particular feature does not mean others should discount it either. You may find if/when they ever add these features that there are many more things you could have been doing with your database.
Access is not a complex tool. It has more features than FileMaker and may be more complex than FileMaker but it is not a complex tool. It has other issues just because MS has rewritten the DB engine a few times and done a poor job at converting users old code into the new format, or failed to make functions/objects backwards compatible, but that's life.
FileMaker just keeps putting new lipstick on the same old pig and telling you its something new and exciting just because they know they are the only "desktop" database game on the Mac. (Just like Microsoft and Windows) Yes, MySQL, SQLite, Firebird are database engines that run on your Mac. Hell I can even get Sybase SQL Anywhere and Informix if I'm looking for a commercial database, with tables, views, triggers, stored procedures, etc. but they are not "Desktop" databases, where I can build a small solution and package it up and give to someone else to use.

[vballas]

Will it be a free upgrade for users that bought Filemaker the last month ?
I got mine first week of Dec.

[PoetCSW]

rjpotts is not only right, but it wouldn't take too much for some entrepreneur (ah, if only I had cash and free time) to demonstrate what a desktop system could be.

I think someone could make a decent amount on a frontend using PostgreSQL or MySQL (leave it to the user, even). I use Navicat for some basic things. Imagine Navicat (or any other nice admin tool) wedded to a form designer and reporting tool. There you'd have a replacement for FileMaker.

Now that FM Pro is being sold as a tool to use with SQL databases... time to add some power! I know Lakewood Studio iList is close to what I am imagining.

But, in the end FM Pro is ubiquitous among my colleagues.

Come on, FileMaker... innovate. Really, really innovate. Apple OS X widgets. Graphing. Subforms. Resign the "portal" concept to be more like a datagrid control. So much could be done. It just doesn't "feel" right at times.

Just dreaming... not like I'll stop using FileMaker. 4D remains even more antiquated in some areas.

[emccainaz]

I called Filemaker and they said they would only go back to Dec 6th, I think. I bought two upgrades in October! What a ripoff! I was a loyal Filemaker Pro user, but now I feel like they are trying to gouge me. No wonder people don't pay for software when you get treated like this. It used to be that you got 90 days of free upgrades. Geeesh, what nerve.

[MichiganJim]

Apparently FileMaker users have been praying for features that have been available for ages in Panorama; arguably the better database. Panorama users have been able to trigger actions by all sorts of methods for years... mouse over, change records, add a record, delete a record, open or close a window, click, double-click, option click...
And Panorama has had a built in debugger since its inception - at no extra charge.
So what's the big deal here? A minor update of FileMaker for the price of a serious upgrade.

[MichiganJim]

BTW, why does Macworld continue to run FileMaker reviews by William Porter without ever disclosing his vested interest? He's a FileMaker developer.

[emccainaz]

Thanks for the info on an alternative to Filemaker Pro. I'm going to look into switching to Panorama.

[PoetCSW]

Maybe they need a "desktop database" roundup...
* 4D
* Panorama
* FileMaker Pro
* iList Studio (uses CoreData, I think, under the hood)
* Helix (seems to be trying a comeback from the dead)
I'm not sure if a review comparing RADs would also apply, since REALbasic and Revolution claim to be ideal for databases. Maybe a separate comparison of those?
I know FM Pro is the only database many know of, so a bit of comparison would be great.

[kimbarator]

Are pivot-tables or the like easy to set up with Panorama?