[Jason Snell]

Cormac said:

Mr. Ubillos should be fired. iMovie '08 was one of the worst pieces of crap ever made.

Actually, it's quite good at what it was meant to do, which is speed the quick cutting of simple home videos.

Steve Jobs is the one who decided the program Ubillos wrote should be dubbed "iMovie" and replace the old program with that name.

Also, might I add that suggesting that any cavalier suggestion that a person you don't know lose their job is in extremely poor taste.

[Jason Snell]

Everyone, please stop the personal insults, whether they're hurled at people on these forums or other people in the world.

If you want to call a particular product a piece of crap, that's fine. Calling people names is not.

Also, please stop making suggestions that people should lose their jobs. I've heard enough of that in this thread.

[hmurchison]

>iMovie 6 and earlier had the easiest UI. I don't know what you are talking about. Drag clips into the timeline, edit them, and project done. iMovie 08, which has the worst UI that doesn't make any f*ing sense, presents you with an event pane that consists of every clip you have imported, and no easy way to get rid of them. Then you have to fight to get them into a Project pane to do anything with them. It is pure stupidity. By the way, iMovie 06, arrived in 2006, not 2002. iMovie '08 is not complex, it just doesn't make any sense when it comes to editing video. That person at Apple that created iMovie '08 has no business editing video when he thinks it is a great idea to remove a TIMELINE for editing!"

iMovie '09 allows you to drag clips into the Project Library and easily edit them as well. Though it's not stuck to a linear paradigm by using a timeline. iMovie '08 doesn't have a horrible UI per se it's just missing a lot of features that iMovie '09 added back in. Now you simply add favs or reject clips and change your view to suit you. The Event Browser allows for sane management of clips.

I notice that everyone here is attacking iMovie 08...newsflash folks. iMovie 09 is replaced the 08 version and is shipping today. I won't defend the 08 version but with iMovie '09 there's little need for Apple to keep iMovie '06 around. Anyone new to video editing is going to likely take to iMovie 09 much easier IMO.

[Jason Snell]

Cormac said:

But would have Steve Jobs been able to create iMovie 08 without the help of Randy Ubillos? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. But the fact remains that it was Randy Ubillos recreated iMovie in a form that was completely unusable by most people.

You've got the sequence of events wrong. Ubillos created a quick-editing app. It was Steve Jobs (and perhaps other Apple executives) who decided that it should replace iMovie in the iLife package. So are you willing to attack Steve Jobs, or would you rather just use the guy who had a hand in just about every major video-editing program ever written as a whipping boy?

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>By the way, Randy Ubillos didn't just create iMovie, he was also instrumental in the creation of both Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro.

So we are supposed to give him a pass just he made two good moves?

No, but you might have wanted to use that information as a subtle clue that your suggestion that Randy Ubillos knows less than a kid about video editing makes you look foolish.

[MacKayaker]

[quote name='Jason Snell']
>

Cormac said:

> But would have Steve Jobs been able to create iMovie 08 without the help of Randy Ubillos? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. But the fact remains that it was Randy Ubillos recreated iMovie in a form that was completely unusable by most people. You've got the sequence of events wrong. Ubillos created a quick-editing app. It was Steve Jobs (and perhaps other Apple executives) who decided that it should replace iMovie in the iLife package. So are you willing to attack Steve Jobs, or would you rather just use the guy who had a hand in just about every major video-editing program ever written as a whipping boy? > > By the way, Randy Ubillos didn't just create iMovie, he was also instrumental in the creation of both Adobe Premiere and Final Cut Pro.So we are supposed to give him a pass just he made two good moves?No, but you might have wanted to use that information as a subtle clue that your suggestion that Randy Ubillos knows less than a kid about video editing makes you look foolish.

Alright, I'll bite, because I think JS is really missing the point. Just because the guy may be incredibly skilled in aiding the creation of two pro level video apps doesn't mean he understands what a consumer is and isn't going to understand and want to accomplish. It's just like a photography presentation I saw. The guy was clearly skilled and had tons of experience - with film. His lack of knowledge of digital and especially his lack of understand where the average consumer is coming from left most of the people that had paid money to take in the presentation very disappointed. He neither understood the tools (simple P&S digital cameras) they were using, nor the way those tools work - so most of his comments, no matter how knowledgeable, or insightful, were irrelevant to the people he was there to serve.



The big mistake with iMovie 08/09 is it fails to be the intuitively usable consumer program that iMovie's earlier iterations were. I have several customers that use iMovie and not one of them could handle 08/09 - it requires technical understanding (albeit some of it pretty basic) that the earlier ones don't. It makes sense for those who have used pro level apps, especially FCP or FCE, because workflow and conceptually it is similar - just without the flexibility and expanded capability of a pro level app.

[hmurchison]

The big mistake with iMovie 08/09 is it fails to be the intuitively usable consumer program that iMovie's earlier iterations were. I have several customers that use iMovie and not one of them could handle 08/09 - it requires technical understanding (albeit some of it pretty basic) that the earlier ones don't. It makes sense for those who have used pro level apps, especially FCP or FCE, because workflow and conceptually it is similar - just without the flexibility and expanded capability of a pro level app.


That's certainly a matter of opinion. I find iMovie 06 to be horrid. It appears that it "needed" plug-in to actually be functional. I haven't used iMovie 09 but from what I've seem it indeed has more features but it also presents these features in a clear manner. There's even an "advanced" mode so you can simply the options presented.

Just because iMovie 09 has a large toolbox doesn't mean you are forced to use all the tools. I don't use every feature in OS X but you know I'm glad that they are there (so long as they stay in their place awaiting my discovery)

I've yet to read anything in thread from naysayers that concretely proves that iMovie 09 is more difficult. How difficult is it to drag a collection of "favorite clips" to the project library. Drag an audio file in and edit the length by clicking and dragging an edge. I have faith that anyone that can deal with iMovie 06's archaic look can adapt to iMovie 09 without too much pain.

[Switched112002]

OMG! Such strong emotions in here. Obviously, they can't please all the people all of the time. Some of the very best things about iMovie iterations inspired me to aspire to better. The simple setup worked. I learned a lot and was able to move on. In fact, iPhoto had huge drawbacks with the export size of it's auto generated slides shows using Ken Burns. That forced me to use iMovie for better quality slideshows. The evolution of reduced work in the workflow for the consumer is key, not just for the tired video editor who has been neglecting his family video needs. Although, these are the people mostly likely to recognize those benefits, consumers will find them when they discover the need for them. I must be very close to the target audience for this 09. Having spent most family video work cropping and setting start/end, in/out, points gets so redundant. Now I only have to deal with the audio issue now. Bummer that they can't or don't consider manual control over the audio as important. Judging by the lack of mention in this forum, I they must be right in that department. No one else mentions that as something they missed. Either that or the overall disgust of change was suppose to cover it. For those without FC, nothing beat the power that HD6 had over slicing and dicing audio to fit your need/mood. Video creativity and home effects from removing frames was pretty easy too. I'll never miss the buggy loss of edit work due to crashes that did not remember my changes. It was also not good with long timelines, phase issues. I was still using it for quick and simple family stuff. IMO one of the best things about early iMovie was the manual control over audio fades. I had to move to FCE to keep that basic need to control the in and outpoints on audio. That is still not available in 09. Having lived in the pro apps, I have always appreciated the social aspects that Apple includes in the sharing functionality of iLife apps. Throw it together and post it. That's it. That's what we all want in iMovie projects, easy and quick. iMovie 09 is targeting it's future FC buyers pipeline for sure. I am not sure I agree that Apple has forgotten about those new to the experience It can only be new to you once. Yes, I know about all the technical issues and compatibility issues, those aside for now. I have tons of HD6 projects that I will simply have to export to a fat QT file and deal with it from there. Only time will tell if the new user will be inspired by todays iMovie. To use something of a sacrilegious example, Office 2007 to new users. Oh boy do I feel for non mac users of that products changes. That's something to get upset about.
To all those people spiting themselves by not getting a new machine, Apple does not care about your type of buyer. You were never the target. Progressive, impulsive, willing to upgrade often, is the type they are after. Don't leave yourself out in the cold over such a silly point. You can always take the old app with you. HD6 is gonna run better on a newer, faster machine anyway. Obviously, the the last train to clarksville has left. Don't think apple is going to backup the train to satisfy a very small crowd waiting at that station who refused to get on until the conductor changed the route.

[Jason Snell]

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Alright, I'll bite, because I think JS is really missing the point. Just because the guy may be incredibly skilled in aiding the creation of two pro level video apps doesn't mean he understands what a consumer is and isn't going to understand and want to accomplish.

Oh, I think that's a perfectly valid thesis. (I don't agree with it, but don't let that stop you!) I just don't think that's the point Cormac was trying to make, or if it was, it was hidden behind the suggestion that a kid should show him how to make a movie.

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The big mistake with iMovie 08/09 is it fails to be the intuitively usable consumer program that iMovie's earlier iterations were.

This is the core of the issue here. iMovie 08 was created because people at Apple felt that the old timeline metaphor was not something that regular consumers understood, and that they needed to throw it away and try something completely new in order to truly serve consumers. Some consumers think that decision was completely misguided. Both sides make good points, if you ask me.

[Jason Snell]

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I had to move to FCE to keep that basic need to control the in and outpoints on audio. That is still not available in 09.

Just for the record, iMovie 09 does allow you to edit the in and out points of a clip's audio.

[xStep]

[quote name='MacKayaker']


>

xStep said:

>
> I'm realy surprised so many of you have problems using iMovie 08/09. It is an easy tool to use with just a little learning curve. I've used iMovie from an early version and FCP since version 3, and I must say, my productivity is higher in iMovie 08.
>


And your comments only underline my point. You appreciate iMovie 08/09 because of your experience with FCP. Certainly it is a far simpler tool than FCP - but most don't have pro video app editing as their context for approaching iMovie. Maybe the guy's contribution to FCP and Premiere was amazing - but iMovie isn't supposed to compare, nor function like either.

I don't think my comments underline your point. I accepted iMovie 08 on it's own terms and consider it a fine tool. I don't consider my FCP experience to be any big advantage for learning the new iMovie. I simply opened my mind to a new idea and was able to adapt. It seems to me that many here aren't so flexible.

[alansky]

Apple may have moved the iMovie HD download, but they haven't yanked it. Download link to iMovie HD (v. 6.0.3):
http://support.apple...ownloads/iMovieHD603

[MacKayaker]

Jason Snell said:

This is the core of the issue here. iMovie 08 was created because people at Apple felt that the old timeline metaphor was not something that regular consumers understood, and that they needed to throw it away and try something completely new in order to truly serve consumers. Some consumers think that decision was completely misguided. Both sides make good points, if you ask me.

And my experience with consumers, pro and not is exactly the opposite. And I spent some years in retail, working for Apple and people had no problem getting the timeline. There is no metaphor to get. Every video app I have worked with over the last fifteen years - consumer and pro level had a timeline that was core to it's interface. It's not hard to get.

For me, personally, my main beef with iMovie 08 was that it was a completely new program. All the tens of hours happily using all the previous versions of iMovie gave me no experience that was beneficial to trying to figure out a new beast. Since I didn't have any issues with previous versions, other than some of the tracking issues on longer projects in early iterations. I had no reason to look for a new program - but that's what Apple felt I needed. I spent some time with it, but it lacked features I had grown used to, that were key to my work - chapter markers, for example. I created long projects and burned them to DVD in iDVD, creating custom elements in Photoshop, sometimes custom motion graphics segments in After Effects. Sometimes exporting audio and working with it in Peak, a pro level audio editing app. It was easy enough to do. I couldn't see being able to do all of that with iMovie 08. And sure I could have accomplish all that editing, etc. in FCP or FCE, but why use a heavy weight, when iMovie was more than up to the task. And like others, I invested in some add-ons - mainly to give me more transition and titling options, but not the cheese factory kinds of stuff. As at least one other person has already pointed out - if one uses broadcast or cable television as a standard, you see very basic cuts and transitions in most genres, so most of what was out there wasn't needed - but things like PIP and better titling options were nice additions to the program for me.

It is also very clear to me, now, as it was when iMovie 08 came out, that many of the people blasting it, didn't take the time to get into the program, for some of the features that people claimed weren't there, certainly were/are - just in different places. And too, Apple had certainly improved some of the editing options significantly. I can only hope more of the same is true for iMovie 09. Was iMovie 08, and hopefully 09 more capable software - in general very certainly. Where it missed is being a completely new program - one that few using the software for years could easily step into - it missed on usability. It would be like Adobe coming out with Photoshop CS5, without layer masks, access to channels, etc. and forcing it's customers to understand a new paradigm for image editing. That's really what happened with iMovie 08. And I would bet money far fewer NEW people got into video editing with iMovie 08 on their machine, than those that did when their systems came with the earlier iterations. I know I, as a person who works full time serving Mac users have not met a single person using the new version, though I've set up a pile of systems with the software. I can't say the same at all for the earlier versions - for some people the reason they got the Mac was because of iMovie. Clearly, your mileage may vary.

[webraider]

MorrisTheCat said:

>

Quote

Supposedly being the very operative word. From what I've been able to tell from articles on the 'net, iMovie '09 still does not support plug-ins the way the older iMovie did. Now, there may be a lot of nice transitions and such in the new iMovie, but there are some very cool plug-ins for the old iMovie that will never work in the new version, unless Apple adds support for plug-ins back in, and somehow I don't ever see that happening.

The effects and transitions that iMovie '09 support are much better and quicker than the ones in iMovie '06. They are also much easier to add and they actually respond to size changes like they should (iMovie' '06's did not always play nice). The old effects and transitions will never work because iMovie '08 and now '09 use a completely different type of effect and transition. That doesn't mean it won't eventually work with new plug-ins but even if it doesn't overall, it's a much better program IMHO.

[webraider]

OriginalMacRat said:

Note that iMovie 09 is nothing like iMovie 06. It is a heck of a lot more complicated. Apple seems to have forgotten their target audience and listed to too many people who should really be using Final Cut.

I completely disagree.. It's much easier to use and faster than iMovie '06. I actually enjoy doing movies now and I hated it in iMovie '06