[Steve_S]

hmurchison said:

iMovie 06 is certainly not a modern looking app and I do believe the consensus would arrive at that decision.

I think we agree on this. You can update the overall look of a product without getting rid of key interface elements though. I'd probably love iMovie '09 if it had a traditional timeline. But, this is not just "a key" but "the key" user interface feature that's missing. Pretty much any competent review of the product would agree with this point. Here's an example I just read this morning. http://i.gizmodo.com...movie-09-review

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Define real project. iMovie was never intended for creating longer movies.

I don't know about that. If you're going to include something like wedding themes in products like iMovie and iDVD, then one would think it was intended for something like that. That typically results in a 1 to 2 hour movie.

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You can do ducking (it's an option in many HUD panels) I don't know the functional limit of audio tracks but

I'm talking about having two audio tracks and manually lowering the volume at specific places in one track where you want to increase the volume in another. This is actually a pretty common in video editing and all but impossible as far as I can tell in '08, but no problem in '06 and of course FCE.

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again this is a consumer app. For timelines and other features Final Cut Express is the more ideal solution.

True, but what does that mean. To me, if I want to do something more original, I'd do it in FCE. But, sometimes, it's nice to slap together a quick, professional looking solution using themes, etc. with iMovie. Obviously, if I need to work with more than 2 audio tracks, etc. I'd have to use FCE, etc. Similarly with video...

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Apple has refocused iMovie into being what it's primary intention was. A simple movie editor.

I agree that's what Apple did. I'm just not happy about it. ;-)

>I skipped iLife 08 so I never used iMovie 08.

Ouch... one of the strongest supporters for the new iMovie has never actually used it. The thing is, my first reaction was similar to yours. I was very excited about iMovie getting a new engine in '08. As we both agree, the old engine had to go. I also knew there would be growing pains as some features were missing (and obvious ones like DVD markers, etc.). I really went into the iMovie '08 wanting to like it. Then I tried it. Simply put, I was disgusted. While I saw things I definitely liked better, I just couldn't get passed the glaring omissions and worse, then lack of a timeline, etc. I see that iMovie '09 now allows for precision edits (something sorely missing in '08) which should help. But, as most reviews indicate, it's not a real substitute.

As you said, Apple purposely redefined the user base for iMovie. While that may be great for newbies that don't understand what they're missing and for those making quick 2 minute YouTube videos, it leaves the rest of us using FCE for all of our video editing needs. If they'd add some of the cheesy themes and consumer features into FCE, I be much happier. I do admit that the video stabilization looks nice though....

[migeon]

Webraider - you've been helpful so I'd like to carry this a bit further;

"iMovie '09 has a precision editor now and you can make up to the frame cuts using arrow keys"

This is really hard to imagine without a timeline. I've never actually seen 08 or 09 in action. I actually own 08 and gave up on it fairly quickly. Can you do this in 08? Can you really adjust volume up and down from one word to the next? Also, sometimes someone is speaking softly and I can extract and paste the same sound track on top to amplify. I can do it a third time either on the second or the same track again. Since you say you can extract sound, that sounds easy. Why did I always read that 08 can't extract sound tracks? Or is this a new 09 capability?

Another question: I can change the sound quality of a track from within HD rather than going to Garage Band and change a hollow sounding track to normal. Can do?

Responding to a couple anti-HD comments - (in my quote versions, I didn't bother to find the actuals)

"if you want a timeline switch to FCE".
Of course, HD had a timeline so clearly 08 and 09 was a step down.

"HD was never designed for long projects, so you should switch to FCE"
Well, HD actually DOES do long projects, and does just fine. The limit is about an hour. More than that, switch to FCE. But that's evidence of second step down for iMovie. What's 08 and 09's limits, 10 minutes? If so, I can't use it anyway.

I can't stand the new iMovie UI, so finally, I looked up Rand Ubillo's biography. What do you know, he comes from Adobe. I dislike the UI's of the computer world's two winners ? Microsoft and Adobe. I guess that explains it; and me.

[btc2]

migeon said:

Webraider - you've been helpful so I'd like to carry this a bit further;

Well, HD actually DOES do long projects, and does just fine. The limit is about an hour.

I regularly produce projects of up to two hours in iMovie HD with absolutely no problems. And my understanding is that there is still no granularity in the audio tracks in iMovie 09.

For me, iMovie 8 was a nightmare. I'm curious to see how (or if) iMovie HD can coexist with iMovie 9. If it can't, that's the end of the upgrade cycle for me. You'll have to rip HD out of my cold dead fingers before I'll let that gem of a program go.

[webraider]

[quote name='Steve_S']
> [quote name='webraider']
> >

Steve_S said:

> Thank God it's NOT the iMovie '06 interface.. It's 10 times better.
I think you'd have a hard time qualifying that statement. ;-)

Doesn't matter.. It's my opinion and that's all people are doing for the most part.. sharing their 2 bit opinion. The entire point is that what one person thinks doesn't make it law

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>Now we can finally do some real editing and fast.
Yeah, maybe for a 2 minute YouTube video with minimal edits. How about a real project?

Um... No for the exact and longer length's of iMovie '06

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>In reality you can make more precise adjustments with '09 than you ever could with '06 and I'm using '09 now.
You were already challenged on this claim and failed to describe how you can make "more" precise adjustments in '09. How many audio tracks can you work with? Can you do ducking luck you can in '06? No? Tell me again about the "more" precise edits... ;-)

Um.. No I didn't fail.. you can poisition your pointer with arrow keys... You can effect the ducking and work with more than one audio track..(which wasn't something you asked me about before, but the arrow keys were.. stop being a sore loser there)

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>Incidently the UI of '08 is much better than '06 too. '06's are stuck with a 10 year old way of doing things.

What like the use of industry standard conventions, you know, like timelines, etc? Sorry, abandoning such common necessities is not a step forward. Umm. if by a time line you mean you have to have it give you precise coordinates of location.. then.. Uh.. YEAH. Sometimes there is a different way of doing things and for me it really DOESN'T make a difference but in iMovie' 08 an 09 it's Faster and just as accurate which makes it... BETTER

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>I know FCP users who wish Apple would adapt the '08 interface more. I have no doubt FCP will actually be heading there more. Get used to it.

LOL! Don't bet on it. iMovie was dumbed down to the point where anyone with real editing experience has to upgrade to FCE or FCP or Premiere, or Avid, etc. You can make an argument that the YouTube crowd doesn't need such "advanced" features. I'm quite confident that if Apple forced this interface onto their FCP customers, they'd lose market share instantly. Let's see what happens with the next release.

So what.. Apple can never change FCP's interface. I doubt that totally. You do not need a timeline to make a precise edits in iMovie '08 or '09 as you did in '06. Will Apple kill it from FCP.. no.. Just like they don't in Logic vs Garageband. However.. that said.. I said they will use SOME UI features and it will more than likely look like it more.. I'm reffering more to the way it organizes clips and allows you to skim through much quicker and select quickly.

[webraider]

migeon said:

Webraider - you've been helpful so I'd like to carry this a bit further;

"iMovie '09 has a precision editor now and you can make up to the frame cuts using arrow keys"

This is really hard to imagine without a timeline. I've never actually seen 08 or 09 in action. I actually own 08 and gave up on it fairly quickly. Can you do this in 08?

Yes.. You can do this in '08. '08 just doesn't have a precision editor. First of all.. keep in mind that '08 and '09 are still Linear editors.. it's just the line proceeds from left to right and when it reaches the end, it goes to the next line. Don't know why this is a big deal for some but it is. You can adjust the clips size in '08 from showing the clips from 1second to 5 seconds or bigger lengths. You position the pointer bar close to where you want to edit and then use the arrow buttons to lock in on the precise frame. Contrary to this forum's belief.. it's very easy and quick. You can also quick select which is easy to use too.

>Can you really adjust volume up and down from one word to the next?

Yes.. you may have to split the audio track per clip to do this however..The way you do this is similar to iMovie '06 but it's also a bit different.

>Also, sometimes someone is speaking softly and I can extract and paste the same sound track on top to amplify.
There are multiple audio tracks however.. nomarlization works really well. Normalize first, then split the track at the part that needs to be amplified and raise the volume of just that part.

>Why did I always read that 08 can't extract sound tracks?

This was more limited in '08.. however you could work around and slice and dice your audio.. you just had to do it by controlling the size of each audio clip.

Or is this a new 09 capability?

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Another question: I can change the sound quality of a track from within HD rather than going to Garage Band and change a hollow sounding track to normal. Can do?

The only effect is normalizing which is like a very good compressor. It brings over amplifies the low frequencies to bring them up to the high frequency level. It's really good actually. You may have to go to GarageBand for that. It's really not a big deal anymore to open up the project in GarageBand. It won't need to be re-encoded to send to iDVD so the time if minimal.

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Responding to a couple anti-HD comments - (in my quote versions, I didn't bother to find the actuals)

"if you want a timeline switch to FCE".
Of course, HD had a timeline so clearly 08 and 09 was a step down.

Believe me.. once you get used to it..You won't miss the timline.. at least not the way HD '06 had.

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"HD was never designed for long projects, so you should switch to FCE"
Well, HD actually DOES do long projects, and does just fine. The limit is about an hour. More than that, switch to FCE. But that's evidence of second step down for iMovie. What's 08 and 09's limits, 10 minutes? If so, I can't use it anyway.

Haven't found the limit to '09 or '08 yet. I've done 2 hours.


[quote]
I can't stand the new iMovie UI, so finally, I looked up Rand Ubillo's biography. What do you know, he comes from Adobe. I dislike the UI's of the computer world's two winners ? Microsoft and Adobe. I guess that explains it; and me.

[xStep]

webraider said:

> In reality you can make more precise adjustments with '09 than you ever could with '06 and I'm using '09 now.
You were already challenged on this claim and failed to describe how you can make "more" precise adjustments in '09. How many audio tracks can you work with? Can you do ducking luck you can in '06? No? Tell me again about the "more" precise edits... ;-)
Um.. No I didn't fail.. you can poisition your pointer with arrow keys... You can effect the ducking and work with more than one audio track..(which wasn't something you asked me about before, but the arrow keys were.. stop being a sore loser there)

That wink shows he isn't being a sore loser, just teasing you. iMovie can't do more precise video edits because it is now at the same frame level editing as iMovie HD and FC. As far as I know, video editing software doesn't allow subframe editing for video.

[webraider]

xStep said:

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That wink shows he isn't being a sore loser, just teasing you. iMovie can't do more precise video edits because it is now at the same frame level editing as iMovie HD and FC. As far as I know, video editing software doesn't allow subframe editing for video.

Thanks.. I didn't pick up on the wink. You're right.. it doesn't allow subframe editing.. however neither did '06. It's not more precise than '06 but what I clarified earlier is that it's "Just as precise as '06 AND faster, thus my impllication that it's better. It's quicker to make precise cuts with it (compared only to HD 6.. NOT FCP)

I simply don't understand people being tied down the "Timeline" in '06. I used both and quite honestly for what it does '09 is simply faster and better IMHO. I never used the tim part of the timeline in '06. I positioned the pointer where I wanted to make a cut and I did it. I based it more on what I was watching of the clip I was editing and low and behod, '09 does this just as precise and quicker. You have to get used to it but as I've stated it's an easier way to edit. Granted I'm not talking about a timeline in FCP.. Just the timeline in '06. It honestly wasn't neccessary IMHO it doesn't effect the outcome. I get better quality exports from '09. iMovie '06 Was not FCP, and the taking of the Time line from '08 and '09 doesn't change the outcome of what you can do with iLife. If anything you can now do more than you could with '06. If you actually give it a chance.. you'll find out it works.

[hmurchison]

OK

I actually edited some video last night in iMovie 09 and got a lot further than my first attempt with iMovie HD. I think if you're accustomed to iMovie HD's workflow you're likely to resist iMovie 09 but if you're starting from ground zero on both I'm betting that iMovie 09 is going to be far easier for the video editor that is unfamiliar with timelines.

I found that I could easily select the portion of the ingested clip I wanted and drag that to the project library. It was trivial to split clips add freeze frames and reverse motion. Titling was easy and looked great. Each clip tells you how long it is and the red bar indicates how much of it you've used.

I don't have the fastest Mac in the world (Core Duo 1.66Ghz mini) and iMovie HD felt sluggish on my computer with 2GB of RAM but iMovie 09 is clearly developed to maintain as much realtime editing as possible. I never noticed the lack of oomph from my mini during editing (now stabilizing video would have been a different story)

Later I'll do more work with the precision editor and themes and soundtracks but first impressions are that Apple's goal to make video editing easier for the masses seems to have been fulfilled.

I think those wanting timelines and more control will probably want to migrate to Final Cut Express which along with Pro is likely going to have a huge performance and features update this year. The many realtime functions of iMovie 09 lead me to believe the Pro stuff will just add more on top.

[DCGypsy]

I might be a sucker. I am a choreographer that enjoys filmmaking. I totally loved iMovie HD6 I have on my desktop iMac, especially the transitions and titles such as Flying letters, Flying words spinning , scrolling etc. It was easy to see and work. When I upgraded my laptop to macbook pro I thought iMovie'08 would retain these cool titles and transitions. Wrong , just got kicked to the curb. I was told that since many people complained , IMovie '09 would have the same titles as HD6 and more so I bought it. ( I said I was a sucker). To my surprise I found no flying letters or words. Can I get a refund? I guess not since I have installed it (Foiled again). Anyone know how to get letters and words to fly in?

[webraider]

DCGypsy said:

I might be a sucker. I am a choreographer that enjoys filmmaking. I totally loved iMovie HD6 I have on my desktop iMac, especially the transitions and titles such as Flying letters, Flying words spinning , scrolling etc. It was easy to see and work. When I upgraded my laptop to macbook pro I thought iMovie'08 would retain these cool titles and transitions. Wrong , just got kicked to the curb. I was told that since many people complained , IMovie '09 would have the same titles as HD6 and more so I bought it. ( I said I was a sucker). To my surprise I found no flying letters or words. Can I get a refund? I guess not since I have installed it (Foiled again). Anyone know how to get letters and words to fly in?

Have you tried the "Drifting" effect for titles in iMovie '09? There are several effects where the titles fly in, or scroll in (drifiting being one of them). I don't remember those features exactly in iMovie 6 but If they aren't quite the same there are at least on par with them. At any rate.. the drifting effect has words float in from either side then exit. They also have a vertical drift and sideways drift. They have a sparkle in and even srolling credits which can just be a word or two if you set it up that way. I think these are what you're talking about right? You can control the speed by controlling the length over a clip. The drift is modeled with two words from different directions but if you only want one, you simply fill in on the same line. It's very easy to do in iMovie '09.

[super88Oliver]

After editing, I want to be able to right back to my miniDV tape. I needed HD 6 to do that. I haven't seen 9, but I'm guessing that it will not write back to miniDV tape.

[martygelt]

I think the problem is that people are discussing two different issues as if they are the same thing.
If Apple had decided to leave in all the old abilities while ADDING new ones, nobody would be complaining; But to completely redesign the interface and remove features that people had come to rely on, while also not allowing the new version to import movies from the old version for further editing was idiotic.
If I want to do something that I have learned to do in an older version that is no longer possible in the new version, wouldn't it make more sense to allow me to at least use the older version to make those changes and then import the video into the new version for further editing?
This is the kind of thing we had come to expect from Apple, but now they seem to be perfectly willing to force their users to learn a whole new way of doing things in order to "upgrade".
I remember the days when an Apple user could honestly tell his Windows using brethren that Apple programs had a consistent user interface and that on the Mac we didn't have to learn a new skill set every time we upgraded our software or switched from program to program, but it seems as if those days are rapidly coming to an end. Apple used to make a point of the fact that while on Windows a user would have to worry about whether commands in one program would translate to another, and on the Mac, we would have to learn a few basic skills and they would apply systemwide. Now it seems as if we're in the same limbo as the Windows user - only it's within different versions of the SAME program. If I buy the program this year, will it function the same way when I "upgrade" next year?
If Apple thinks that the new way of editing is more suited to their business model or their concept of video editing, I guess that's their prerogative, but since when does buying a new version of the SAME SOFTWARE, disallow the ability to import your older projects MADE WITH THE SAME SOFTWARE???
I think Apple should either allow import from previous versions or discontinue iMovie altogether and rename their new program something else entirely. If they did either of those things, the biggest complaint would be about their discontinuation and not about a step backwards (which this was IMO).
I'm sorry about the rambling nature of my post, but I hope most of you will get the gist of what I'm trying to say. (Full disclosure: I haven't upgraded to '09 yet, so I don't know if it's possible to import from HD again, but if it's not IT SHOULD BE!)

[aparecido]

There are a lot of posts here: I apologise if I repeat what others might have said.

I teach kids how to edit videos but I'm primarily doing it to teach them other curriculum material using video as a medium. I don't want to spend the hour teaching them the technology; I want the technology to be intuitive so I can concentrate on the other learning. I do, though, want progression and to teach good habits so 'an iMovie' that is closer to FCP in terms of in and out points is a good thing and I think post iMovie 6 versions do this well and in an intuitive manner.

There's a big 'but' though:

I've only had iMovie 09 for a week and am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong...

When you're teaching kids how to cut up an interview so it's really tight for something like broadcast news, you need to carve up the interview footage into small chunks and throw away the 'middle bits'. Then to eliminate the jumps in the video you separate the audio and video as you could in Imovie 06 and then replace each 'odd' video clip with other contextual footage to hide the cuts. This was a breeze in iMovie 06 but wasn't possible in iMovie 7. At first glance it seems there is a way to do this in the new version but not in a way that you can teach to a class of 9 year olds which I was quite happily doing with iMovie 06. Quid pro quo; steve needs to keep iMovie 06 available as a download until the next revision allows people like myself to help promote apple as the only viable educational 'video with youngsters' or 'with cross-curricular educational project' solution. Without iMovie 6 it might well not continue to be.

I'm happy to report that dragging the old app from my G5 apps folder to my to brand spanking new MBP 17" apps folder has allowed me to continue doing the 'good work' for steve but am not impressed about the removal of the iMovie 6 download link.

And even though I'd kept the iMovie 6 installler, it wouldn't run when it found iLife 09 but no iLife 08. And the guy in India who took the apple customer services phone call told me my solution was to purchase an iLife 06 installer disk. When I told him iLife 06 was unlikely to install on a system when it found iLife 09 he sent me a link to download the iMovie 6.0.3 updater (which obviously is going to need 6.0.2 to run). I shan't comment more on this call as I would find it hard not to write in a dismissive or otherwise patronising tone.

Come on steve. I'm so disappointed with you I've stopped capitalising your name.

rdg

[hmurchison]

I don't see anything that you've mentioned here that I cannot do in iMovie 09.

I can chop up video and separate the audio with ease. Make sure you've enabled the
more advanced features via preferences and get familiar with the precision editor.

While iMovie 06 was a capable product it is a 2006 product and we'd be foolish to think
that three years of evolution yielded a wholly inferior product.

I think the learning curve for iMovie 06 has been traversed many moons ago by the fans
and what they perceive as easy is just learned behavior.

Give iMovie 09 a whirl. Chances are you'll miss some features but love a lot of the new stuff
It's a learning curve but it'll be as easy if not easier that what you had before. Apple is smart
not to pander to legacy. We're never too old to learn and find alternate ways of accomplishing tasks
and getting information.