[lin2log]

Motivated said:

I can buy a solution to convert a glossy screen to matte (or antiglare), but I cannot buy a solution to convert matte to glossy. Since I am not 100% certain I want the matte, I am considering going with glossy.

Now THAT sounds like the perfect plan and good thinking.

And btw: the glossy screens are polarized, so a blanket judgement on the reflection matter is also not actually, objectively possible, since they're relative to what type of light you're dealing with and at what angle.

As I've said, having to possibly turn the MBP a little here or there to reduce glare, every once in a great while (from experience mind you), is, for me, a small price to pay for the superior image and brightness the rest of the time.

[awesomebase]

bq. Sorry, but anyone actually doing any serious work in that direction (I'm a colorist btw) makes damn sure he doesn't have any other light - let alone sunlight - within the vicinity, no matter what type of screen you're sitting at. At best a BACKlight. So that argument doesn't really cut it for me. Since otherwise you're just doing the average everyday stuff, for which a very rough guesstamation is more than enough.
Just consider that maybe the person using this would not be using it under ideal conditons (i.e. a dark room) because it is, after all, a laptop and implying that only "serious work" is done in that environment is extremely condecending and pretty naive; people work when and where they have to. There is no reason why the computer that they work on shouldn't be flexible enough to accomodate their circumstances.
bq. They're not, as you can see by this report! In fact I think it's pretty safe to say, that IF Apple offered it themselves, then you'd be paying MORE - and the rants would enflame anew!, hooray!- , so hey... works perfectly for everyone! :-P
Aside from the 17" MBP, Apple isn't offering any option in this regard. That is why these aftermarket options are being considered even if they're less than ideal. I get your points about why you like glossy and that is your choice, no problem. What I don't get is why you're complaining about others that prefer matte screens or trying to imply that somehow professionals "know" glossy is better. I don't know a "single" desktop professional or artist that has bought a new Apple because of this issue. And I know that there are professionals that would work with glossy screens... but I would say that for every 1 that does, there are at least 2 that don't, even if they buy them nonetheless because the other advantages outweigh this negative for them. So, the tide hasn't turned in that direction yet and at best there should be a viable choice. Why is that such a bad thing? Why are those that have worked with matte screens suddenly the enemy in all of this? We can't express our opinions without somebody saying we're "wrong"?

[lin2log]

griffman said:

fully 30% of respondents (nearly 2,000 people) indicated they would not buy a glossy-screened Mac laptop. The results aren't scientific, of course,

Of course. Especially considering the audience. I think it's again safe to say there were enough "my buddy, who has a Mac, said they stink, so..."-voters amongst the ballot-fillers, to consider it anything but that.

I think the closest you'll actually ever get in the near future, is by waiting for the 17" to come out and watching the numbers!

Quote

but I think they show there's clearly more than a small minority willing to vote with their checkbooks.

Um... haven't they already? Granted the numbers for the forth quarter "laptop" sales aren't purely the LED MBPs (whereby the MacBook has had glossy only for quite some time, if you'll recall), but of those 18% more sales in comparison to 2007?? Hmmm...

Quote

Given it'd cost Apple next to nothing to offer both options -- and they'd actually make more selling matte screens -- I don't understand the limitation. Make it special order, so you don't have to stock them. Charge extra for them; we'll pay for the option. It's a win-win with very few downsides.

Okay. So basically, assuming you were right, which I don't, using simple reverse logic with what you're saying, I guess that means that Apple IS doing it after all, merely to piss us off??

Sorry, don't really see much of an alternative there. Since (your) logic would seem to suggest that Apple otherwise is too narrow-minded or blind to catch the "obvious": they're blowin' a huge amount of sales/cash by NOT offering mattes.

Somehow that doesn't compute.

But in the end? I think Apple is keeping an eagle's eye on the 17" sales in terms of matte or glossy and will change the options on the 15" accordingly. Should that not be the plan either way already of course, only they're holding out on getting a tighter grip on the production... which they apparently are struggling with at the moment. Be it because of the screens or not.

[Adammiller]

" There is no reason why the computer that they work on shouldn't be flexible enough to accomodate their circumstances."

As I said before, I use a glossy macbook pro to edit video and photos EVERYWHERE!

[lin2log]

awesomebase said:

Just consider that maybe the person using this would not be using it under ideal conditons (i.e. a dark room) because it is, after all, a laptop and implying that only "serious work" is done in that environment is extremely condecending and pretty naive; people work when and where they have to.

Try not to actually take things out of context to make your point. Mind you, I said "no matter what type of screen you're sitting at". And sorry, if you're sittin' in broad daylight??! No matter how you bend it, that would not qualify as "serious" or even mildly professional for that kind of work.

And btw, all iMacs and the new 24" (which I also use with great joy) have the exact same glossy screens, so I was in no way reducing my point to MBP screens, sorry.

Quote

There is no reason why the computer that they work on shouldn't be flexible enough to accomodate their circumstances.

LOL... so Apple now needs to come up with a solution that would even make life hunky-dory for colorists sitting in a field on a summers day?? I mean hey... if that's HIS circumstance.

Please.

Quote

Why are those that have worked with matte screens suddenly the enemy in all of this? We can't express our opinions without somebody saying we're "wrong"?

I suggest you reread my previous posts to figure out the answer to that yourself of rather WHOM exactly I have a problem with.

And I'm not really into the "I know way mo' better pros than you" game either.

[lin2log]

Adammiller said:

As I said before, I use a glossy macbook pro to edit video and photos EVERYWHERE!

Ditto. Thank you. But preferably in a "controlled environment" of course, no matter what the screen.

[montgomery_burns]

lin2log said:

Quote

Sure, Apple only came up with the glossy idea (practically years after PC manufacturers by the way) just to tick people off. Not because it actually presents an advancement in both quality and ergonomics. No way. Never.

The defense of glossy screens by Mac users is not based on any supposed advantages of glossy screens. Instead, Mac users are defending and rationalizing glossy screens just to support Apple's party line. You yourself stated that PC manufacturers had glossy screens for years before Apple. During that time, I did not see any Mac user wish for glossy screens on Macs, nor did I see Mac users defending glossy screens on PCs. Instead, those Mac users were complaining about how glossy screens on PC laptops were glaring and unreadable. But when Apple started using the exact same glossy screens, Mac users are now defending the exact same glossy screens that they dismissed in the past. Those glare filled, unreadable glossy screens now suddenly have "better contrast and saturation" just because Apple is using them, even though they are the exact same screens used by PC manufacturers for years.

Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants a video iPod.

Video iPod Rules!!

Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody needs third party applications on the iPhone. Web apps are really, really SWEET.

iPhone App Store Rules!!

Intel is evil. Apple will never switch to Intel processors.

IBM are lazy slackers. PowerPC is dead. Intel Rules!!

[maineguy]

Rob
Good article! Well presented alternatives so users can make a choice of what they want from their machines. This is what I like about Macworld articles, relevant topics and suggestions for solutions! Thank You!
lin2log... "Oh puh-leeeeze...
Sorry, but anyone that considers a glossy screen a step DOWN to a matte, quite obviously never even SEEN one (when the computer was ON of course) let alone USED one. Period. Ironically all I EVER seem to read or hear is from just those people. Since IMO complete utterly irreverent nonsense such as "If I want to look at myself while I work" can only come from just those individuals (who even unabashedly admit to the fact!). What's worse is to actually consider the older screen in any way BETTER. It's so perfidious."
I don't know what your issue is, nor do I care. I don't know if you're trying to seem smart, relevant, or you're compensating for some deficiency... but if you read the majority of posts on this site, most people are able to comment without coming across so arrogant in their opinions. Maybe learn from them... good luck.

[kms007]

Good article, Rob. After reading it, I'm very glad I went ahead and purchased the previous gen MBP (matte screen) this past November. Glossy screens, while vivid, just don't sit well with my eyes. I've experienced this first hand on a new iMac at work; the reflectiveness of the screen is simply too distracting for me.

But, as they say, to each his own. Apple really should bring back matte screens as an option.

-Krishna

[Podesta]

I really dislike the anti-glare film on my iPhone, so I think I would hate it on my MacBook Air. I still have a MacBook Pro with a matte screen. But, using both a matte and a glossy screen have not been a big problem for the nine months I've had MacBook Airs. Both are fine, though the glossy screen is brighter and more colorful. Perhaps people just need to adjust.

[lin2log]

montgomery_burns said:

The defense of glossy screens by Mac users is not based on any supposed advantages of glossy screens. Instead, Mac users are defending and rationalizing glossy screens just to support Apple's party line.

LOL... The All Mighty, All SEEING Eye has finally lowered his godly main to our scrawny intellectual level and come down to us poor poor dilusional, misguided MacSheep lemmings to right our ways!! We bow before you in shame! We OF COURSE have no autonomous thinking nor own EYES... other than those of The Steve! How pathetic we are...

Once you have to go the total pathetic yaaaaawn inducing "fanboy" route, you KNOW you've run out of actual grown-up arguments AND IQ. Bravo. You're my hero.

Truly sad.

[javaholic]

@lin2log – settle down before you blow a gasket, okay?
For a little perspective, 2 months ago we sold the studios 24” iMac after 8 months. Due to the location of our studio and a few other factors beyond our control, our production Mac operator/retoucher found she was getting occasional eyestrain and migraines since we upgraded to the 24" iMac – more so if we’ve been putting some hours in. Of course, I could sack her and find someone with your ability to block out reflection, but she's a great employee, so we’ve ‘downgraded’ to a 23” ACD display and refurbed Mac Pro. Sorry about that.
Take a look around the web and you’ll see gloss displays just aren't a suitable, practical solution for everyone. While you’re attempting to demean the subject, this isn’t a trivial matter for a lot of people. What works for you doesn’t work at all for me. And bottom line, if Apple were as in touch with customers as they say they are they’d have continued to offer a display choice. Then this thread wouldn’t be here and there’d be no problem at all, right?
So shine on - enjoy you GlossBookPro. And I’ll enjoy my MatteBookPro.

[lin2log]

javaholic said:

so we’ve ‘downgraded’ to a 23” ACD display and refurbed Mac Pro. Sorry about that.

lol... no, I'M sorry, that you quite obviously aren't professional enough to provide the appropriate working environment for that kind of work, so issues like that don't even come up to begin with. A problem that can and will come up with your average CRT as well for that matter! Duh. Oh but wait... those are made of plastic not glass... silly me.

I work for a well known studio and we have just explicitly bought the new 24" CDs for nearly all work stations due to their superior quality. But then again, we care about proper ergonomics, so no such problems could ever creep up. Sorry about THAT.

[oonal13]

I've used the anti glare film and apply the first one right the first time. there were some bubbles that I used a clear tape to reove the corner and smooth the bubble.