[Par_XI]

I don't have the magazine with me right now to get an exact quote, but in Andy Ihnatko's column on the back pages, he boldly asserts that Internet Explorer 5 for MacOS is the best browser for any platform.

IE 6 for Windows is plainly superior. It's more compatible, takes less system resources, it's not rife with annoying bugs, it renders pages more quickly and smoothly (that is, it displays them while it's rendering better), and it has more features.

Of course there are many other browsers out there that are arguably better than IE 5 for Mac, but IE 6 is the easiest to compare.

[Jason Snell]

IE5 was the first browser to be truly standards compliant. I'm going to guess that's what he's referring to -- that, last time I checked, IE5 was still the most standards-compliant browser in existence.

IE 6 for Windows isn't, as far as I know, "more compatible" -- it's just that it's so widespread that more web sites have been forced to compensate for its quirks. images/icons/smile.gif

[Par_XI]

No browser is truly 100% standards compliant. Mozilla is the closest though, according to webstandards.org. IE 6 and 5 seem about equal.

However, by "compatibility" I mean the page renders how the author intends it to. IE 6 has all sorts of technology that detects if a web page was coded for IE 6, 5.5, 5, 4, etc. and then renders it accordingly. I really don't care if it makes w3.org cry - it makes the pages look right.

[Nobody]

IE 6 and IE 5 are not very good at rendering simple Web pages with tables because they both put extra space on the border between top row and bottom row on a table with 2 rows.

Netscape 6.2.3 does not put extra space on the border between top row and bottom row on a table with 2 rows.

So, IE 6 and IE 5 aren't any better than Netscape 6.2.3 and other Web browsers.

One exception, there're special features on IE6 and IE5 which some Web sites use on their Web pages, those content do not show up on Netscape 6.2.3.

[ 08-21-2002: Message edited by: ILOVEMAC ]

[Par_XI]

The point is that most websites are designed for IE rather than Netscape and the other alternatives. Even though Microsoft's implementation of web standards isn't perfect, 99.9% of the web looks right in IE 6.

[Nobody]

Jeez, what a load of hooey.

1) 99.9% of the websites used to be created with Netscape in mind--way before MS got a clue about the Internet. Just because MS has illegally captured the browser market doesn't mean they should be allowed to create the standards by which webpages are created.

2) Par argues that IE6 is the best browser because 99.9% of webpages "look right" on it. Well, that's a reather subjective viewpoint--who decides what "right" means? The task of a web browser is to display a webpage the author of the page intends, not the way the browser manufacturer believes it should be displayed. The purpose of W3C is to provide a set of open standards for browser authors and web-page designers to design against. It was the lack of such a set of standards that caused some of the problems with "legacy" browsers like Netscape 4.x--whose codebase and HTML parsing engine was written before the standards existed.

3) Microsoft should be praised for releasing browsers that adhere to this standards set. However, they should also be castigated and flogged for attempting to impose upon the world their own proprietary standards such as FrontPage extensions, ActiveX, and MSHTML (that fugly code created by Office apps).

4) Par sounds like a Microsoft apologist and doesn't realize that MS has done more to harm the advancement of web standards than any other company out there, all because MS wants to control the Internet and the standards by which web pages are created, rendered, and viewed by the public. The outcry over Smart Tags about a year ago was well-deserved. Imagine an Internet where a webpage you create is not the webpage the public says--the potential existed for MS to use Smart Tags to insert their own content on your page...to control what the consumer sees. Shudder.

Innovation happens when there is competition. Without competition, stagnation sets in and everyone suffers except Microsoft, which will then use their browser monopoly to force .NET down consumers' throats. Fa!

[Jason Snell]

Nice rant, but I am a bit weary of the litany of Microsoft offenses, since they really don't address Internet Explorer 5, which was the original topic here. Is the office HTML code fugly? Sure, but what does that have to do with IE5's standards compliance? Are smart tags, frontpage extensions, activeX, and .NET nasty creatures? Sure, but what does that have to do with Microsoft's Macintosh web browser?

The fact is, almost every Web expert under the sun has praised Mac IE5 for being the most standards-compliant browser ever released. Even seriously Windows-centric sites cite the strength of IE5.

Is it from the same giant company that's doing stupid stuff elsewhere? Sure... but the work being done in the MacBU at Microsoft shouldn't be slighted just because somewhere else in the empire, there are attempts to seed the Web with ActiveX and the like.

[Par_XI]

quote:

---

2) Par argues that IE6 is the best browser because 99.9% of webpages "look right" on it. Well, that's a reather subjective viewpoint--who decides what "right" means? The task of a web browser is to display a webpage the author of the page intends, not the way the browser manufacturer believes it should be displayed.

---

I also explicitly state: However, by "compatibility" I mean the page renders how the author intends it to.

It seems that we agree on this point. It's a fact that IE 6 displays more web pages how the author intended them to look than any other browser. IE 5 is a close second.

quote:

---

4) Par sounds like a Microsoft apologist and doesn't realize that MS has done more to harm the advancement of web standards than any other company out there, all because MS wants to control the Internet and the standards by which web pages are created, rendered, and viewed by the public.

---

Actually, I was just trying to point out an error in Andy Ihnatko's article. Nothing more.

[ 08-22-2002: Message edited by: Par ]

[Par_XI]

quote:

---

The fact is, almost every Web expert under the sun has praised Mac IE5 for being the most standards-compliant browser ever released. Even seriously Windows-centric sites cite the strength of IE5.

---

Maybe they said this when IE 5 was first released and the Mozilla project didn't exist yet... But now, Mozilla is by far the most compliant browser. webstandards.org clearly states "No browser does a better job of standards compliance, and Mozilla also includes all the usual add-ons like mail, news and chat."

[Nobody]

now........you finally change your mind that IE 6 and IE 5 aren't that good as other Web browsers.
images/icons/grin.gif
images/icons/shocked.gif
I think there's a topic on "what's your favorite Web browser" topic on Macworld's Forums. but I forgot under which major topic group.

I think almost 90% of replies choose to use other Web browsers as their #1 Web browser. Only about 10% choose to use Microsoft Internet Explorer as their #1 Web browser.

[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: ILOVEMAC ]

[Par_XI]

dbl

[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: Par ]

[Par_XI]

quote:

---

now........you finally change your mind that IE 6 and IE 5 aren't that good as other Web browsers.

---

No I don't. Not sure where you got that from... This thread sure has deviated.

quote:

---

I think there's a topic on "what's your favorite Web browser" topic on Macworld's Forums. but I forgot under which major topic group.

I think almost 90% of replies choose to use other Web browsers as their #1 Web browser. Only about 10% choose to use Microsoft Internet Explorer as their #1 Web browser.

---

That further emphasizes my point. Reread my original post.

BTW - If Mac users had access to IE 6, I'm sure that poll would have come out differently. When I'm using my Cube, Mozilla 1.1b is my browser of choice, however on Windows it's IE 6, hands down.

[Nobody]

IE 6 won't build for MacOS and other operating systems. That's what I read somewhere on Microsoft.com long time ago.
so, what's the point of mentioning IE 6 on a Web site only about Macs.

IE 6 will never get to run on a MacOS.

Just like Apple's Final Cut Pro will never run on a Windows OS.

I am not talking that I don't like IE 6.
I use IE 6 when something that other Web browsers can not do.
For example, there's a slide photos show on a Web site which uses Javascript to create, and makes you can not click(or right-click if Windows) on the photo/image and save that photo/image with Netscape and other Web browsers, except IE 6.
That's because IE 6 has the little toolbar displaying when you move your pointer over a photo/image with choice of printing, saving, and emailing of that photo/image.

I have VirtualPC with Windows XP on my Mac.
so, I know what you're talking about on how nice the IE 6 is. images/icons/grin.gif images/icons/tongue.gif

[ 08-23-2002: Message edited by: ILOVEMAC ]

[Nobody]

IE Mac 5 standards compliant? Then why can't it figure out dhtml and vbscript as well as alot of javacript and css styles? It does a bloody slow and crappy job of javascript and java applets too (although I assume it has to do more with the new HIGHLY OVERRATED OS.
Despite these issues I found that using IE 5 on OS 9 a pleasant experience and, at the time of its release, the best browser on the market.