[nkrause]

We recently bought the canon hf100 and my PC is too old to even attempt editing the avchd footage. I do not do any tinkering with computers so upgrading is not being considered and the kids will use my current machine. I need to buy a new computer and the research process has consumed me the last few weeks. We all know the great stories mac users have to say about their macs. However, after researching macs I see that apple software transcodes to AIC and there are some who insist that hd quality is degraded during this process and some that insist it is not. In the pc world, there are many editing options and according to the forums, there are a lot of bad experiences for pcs as well.

So, I am hoping to make a decision this weekend after getting some feedback from users that are having good experiences editing avchd on macs and pcs. If you are out there, can you provide your real life experiences and specifically try to explain your thoughts on pros and cons of PC vs Mac for what I want to do buy using your real life experience with your workflow.


If I go the pc route I would probably buy the new i7 2.66 (dell) or at least a 2.66 quad core (HP) with at least 4GB of RAM and a decent video card. If I go the mac route I would probably get the iMac 20 or 24 with at least 2.66 processor. Would either of these pc / mac configurations allow me to accomplish these things:


1. record at highest quality
2. easily transfer avchd footage to computer
3. I currently feel the need to permanently save my raw avchd footage but this may not be necessary.
4. edit by adding fades, effects, music, menus and titles
5. burn to standard dvd in SD for friends and burn to standard dvd in hd for my PS3. I do think I will get a bluray burner in the future.
6. I have days of raw old family footage on DVD from my old hi8 and minidvd camcorder that I would like to edit and possibly merge with the new avchd footage.
I would of course like to do all of this efficiently and with no crashes...I realize no crashes is wishful thinking but the fewer crashes the better.

If you are a pc user, what software do you use and what version of that software?
Does the video card have a big impact on stability and efficiency? I think one of the editors is optimized with nvidia cuda technology?
Are there any all-in-ones by dell or hp that can handle avchd editing?
Is Mac or PC better for what I want to do? If Mac, please provide your experience with transcoding to AIC and then the end result quality once edited footage is burned to dvd.

[hughmass]

I have the Canon HF100 and an intel iMac. No problems using either iMovie 08 or Final Cut Express.
I don't edit in AVCHD, as I would need something else besides those two programs. Toast 10 will handle AVCHD to burn to DVD, and I suggest investigating that program. I am not familiar with Windows programs. My Mac makes DVDs just fine, but not in AVCHD.

Just a suggestion...if you can wait a few weeks, there is a probability that Apple will upgrade their iMacs. No way of telling for sure, but hard to believe that they won't match the Dell Core i7 quadcore chips, or at least the lower speed quadcore.

I just connect the HF100 to my three year old iMac, have iMovie bring it in, edit the footage, then export to wherever. No problems with editing, as the Mac does transcode to AIC. Not a great time to buy a new iMac, though it will come with the new iMovie 09, which has editing capabilities including picture in picture.
I am no Guru, but a new iMac will definitely do what you want. It was difficult to get high quality DVDs but I got acceptable quality by using iDVD and burning at highest level, and viewing using an upgrading DVD player. No idea how my iMac would compare to a Dell. My Mac doesn't crash. I just do simple stuff, mostly on the web (http://www.humanrightscity.com and look for some of the video on the lower left). Very much a lower level consumer who loves the tiny HF100 and its ease of use with my Mac. If you haven't seen them yet. you might profit by going to http://www.apple.com...torials/#imovie and seeing what editing is possible.
Hugh

[sandbag1]

Did you see reference to this article in the Story discussion forum?

[nkrause]

Thanks and that is interesting. I went to an apple store today and the in house video "expert" confirmed that recording at 1920 x 1080 with avchd and then editing with imovie or fce will cause the final product to be lower in quality than the original to the point that the human eye can tell the difference. So, I decided against a mac but this article does peak my interest again. I will head over to the cineform site to read more about it.

[hughmass]

I didn't, so thanks for the tip. After experiencing the huge files and time consuming editing work needed for high definition, I downgraded my projects and ambition, so the degrading of quality in the transcoding process isn't a big problem for me. No so those who really want to work in AVCHD and produce an end product that looks wonderful on a high definition set.
Probably should emphasize that I am very much a home consumer/non professional when I laud my Mac and iMovie.
Hugh

[nkrause]

But Hugh it shouldn't be that difficult. Mac is supposed to be for video and photos. I was very surprised that apple software cannot maintain the hd quality. I have started focusing on finding a new PC instead of a new mac unless cineform can tell me they can do what I want using a mac. Thanks for your info.

[hughmass]

Mac is wonderful for video. As you do your research, I suggest you post in the Final cut express forum at apple discussions, or the iMovie discussions forum, and you will get a lot of advice on this. I am very much not an expert, but the experts are pretty consistent in saying that using Macs for video one gets as good or better final product than on the Windows platform.
What you will also get is a lot of folks who are not thrilled with AVCHD, as to work with it, the files may go to 40GB per hour. Making quality dvds from AVCHD cameras is an art, and requires additional software, Toast Titanium. It would be nice to work with AVCHD natively.Really, post your thoughts on these sites and you will get your answer from folks who are expert and who are not adverse to criticizing Apple.
Hugh

final cut forum:
http://discussions.a...spa?forumID=936

video on mac forum:
http://discussions.a...pa?forumID=1136

video on mac:
http://discussions.a...pa?forumID=1307

[nkrause]

Hugh I have posted to many apple forums including the FCE forums you suggested below plus on MacWorld. For those that have responded, I have understood them to describe multiple steps to edit AVCHD and I understood them to confirm that unless you shell out $1300 for FCP, you will always lose hd quality to the point the human eye can see the difference. The apple expert at the apple store that actually edits video for income outside of his job at apple straight up told me that unless I get FCP I will easily notice the degradation after using imovie or fce. I then mentioned to him that I read apple tv does not support 1920 x 1080 and the first thing my 9 and 11 year old said when we stopped and watched the apple tv demo was, "Daddy, that picture is not HD." The expert once again confirmed that we will not see the resolution we are used to seeing on our Samsung with HD programming from DirecTV or from our new Canon HF100 viewed directly on our tv. I did notice that there are many apple users who do complain that Steve Jobs and company seem to have snubbed the true HD format for some reason.

I do agree based on my research about editing avchd via mac or pcs, the process is difficult. However, I am very heavily leaning to the conclusion that apple believes end users cannot tell the difference between 1920 x 1080 vs 960 x 540 or whatever the max is for apple tv or apple believes end users can tell the difference and are willing to accept the lower resolution offered by apple. I am less of an expert than you because I have never edited video. But, I do know what I want to do and that is record in 1920 x 1080 and produce a final product to play via my PS3 on my Samsung without being able to notice the degradation from the original file on the SDHC to the final edited product. I might be proven wrong, but based on my research it is easier to do this with windows apps at this point, but with difficulty. I have posted to probably 7 different apple and macworld forums and have not had an imovie or fce user able to tell me that I can do what I want and how to do it using imovie or fce. I wish one would because I really wanted to switch to a mac. If you know one, please send them my way...

[hughmass]

You certainly did your research. I have no counter to your conclusion. Hope you are able to find what you are looking for. Thanks for the exchange of info.

So many are frustrated with the problem that I am sure Apple will make AVCHD editing native in something, hopefully in the lower cost platforms like iMovie.
Hugh

[sandbag1]

Just curious how long of a time period are you willing to endure, to process the video's in the resolution you wish.

Seems to me that just creating and burning regular video's can take an awful long time.

[hughmass]

I do seem to have a limit. These days I just do short (<20 minutes) standard definition video that goes on the web, and that doesn't take all that long. When I started I used my tape-based Canon HV20 camcorder to record hour long video, then processed it to both burn to DVD and make video. IDVD would tell me to come back in three hours and I would just stop and forget about the project.

I suspect Apple has been doing a lot of work on this, and the new version of Snow Leopard, with the new quadcore iMacs (please, please, please) that I am hoping will appear soon will make the video encoding go much swifter.

Interestingly, at least to me, the Canon tape camera used DV orHDV, and iMovie would use that natively. I could reupload the edited stuff (iMovie 06 HD)to the camera and it didn't take much time at all. Now, however, using AVCHD, everything takes a boatload of time. But the tradeoff is I get to use a much smaller camcorder, and no tapes.
Hugh

[sandbag1]

Not sure what your budget is, but Toast 10 ($99) claims to archive AVCHD camera footage to disc with one step. Watch Video