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iPhone developer takes measures to combat piracy
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#2
VanceLongwell 
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:24 PM
Enjoyed the article. I must admit to having very little sympathy for anyone profiting/attempting to profit from intellectual property. The whole notion that this sort of thing can be owned in the first place, is off-putting.
Market. App store developers may have figured wrong, and their solution is to monitor hardware they don't, nor never did, own, think of owning, have the ability to own... You get the point. Turns out, full-page-webbrowser-guy, you figured wrong. There is no market for your product, or you'd be able to sell it. Invading my privacy, exposing my personal information to attack, and muddling around with my hardware to validate your poorly chosen market foray, is wholly unacceptable.
I'm tired of these draconian reactions from devs. Get over yourselves already. Commercial software only existed within the context of a tiny number of people being capable of producing it - You know, 30 years ago. I'm sorry your little dollar app didn't go viral. I'm sorry that I can get hundreds of software products like the one in question, for free. I'm sorry for you, developer.
That does not give you the right to access my hardware for purposes of baby-sitting your app. You chose poorly, not my fault. Pity too as you can't even seem to come up with a piece of software some one would be compelled to pay a dollar for. I mean, ouch.
Market. App store developers may have figured wrong, and their solution is to monitor hardware they don't, nor never did, own, think of owning, have the ability to own... You get the point. Turns out, full-page-webbrowser-guy, you figured wrong. There is no market for your product, or you'd be able to sell it. Invading my privacy, exposing my personal information to attack, and muddling around with my hardware to validate your poorly chosen market foray, is wholly unacceptable.
I'm tired of these draconian reactions from devs. Get over yourselves already. Commercial software only existed within the context of a tiny number of people being capable of producing it - You know, 30 years ago. I'm sorry your little dollar app didn't go viral. I'm sorry that I can get hundreds of software products like the one in question, for free. I'm sorry for you, developer.
That does not give you the right to access my hardware for purposes of baby-sitting your app. You chose poorly, not my fault. Pity too as you can't even seem to come up with a piece of software some one would be compelled to pay a dollar for. I mean, ouch.
#3 Guest__*
Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:29 PM
"Chatelain recently released version 1.1 of his $1 application Full Screen Web Browser. Having noticed a dramatic rise in illegitimate use of his app after a cracked version was released on a piracy site, he decided to try to fight back and perhaps even convince some people to buy the program. So he built in a server-side switch in the 1.1 version that checks whether or not the application has been legitimately purchased. If not, the program waits 10 launches and then puts up a message asking the user to either quit the application or purchase it from the App Store."
It is amazing that even a $0.99 app will be pirated. It seems that some people will do anything for "free" Only when the developer goes out of business and the functionality the app provided is not supported in a future OS then will the cost of "free" become apparent to ALL ("freebie seekers" and the honest alike) users of the app.
This says a lot about the character of the people involved that they will pirate anything regardless of price $0.99 indeed. It seems that if the app cost $0.01 or fractions of a penny then these people of high character would still pirate it for "free".
To quote Chicago's song "It Better End Soon"
"Can't stand it no more
The people cheating
Burning each other
They know it ain't right
How can it be right
Better end soon my friend
It better end soon my friend"
Flame away at me as you will, character still counts...
It is amazing that even a $0.99 app will be pirated. It seems that some people will do anything for "free" Only when the developer goes out of business and the functionality the app provided is not supported in a future OS then will the cost of "free" become apparent to ALL ("freebie seekers" and the honest alike) users of the app.
This says a lot about the character of the people involved that they will pirate anything regardless of price $0.99 indeed. It seems that if the app cost $0.01 or fractions of a penny then these people of high character would still pirate it for "free".
To quote Chicago's song "It Better End Soon"
"Can't stand it no more
The people cheating
Burning each other
They know it ain't right
How can it be right
Better end soon my friend
It better end soon my friend"
Flame away at me as you will, character still counts...
#4 Guest__*
Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:51 PM
"Enjoyed the article. I must admit to having very little sympathy for anyone profiting/attempting to profit from intellectual property. The whole notion that this sort of thing can be owned in the first place, is off-putting."
However companies and independent developers profit from their IP every day. Apple, IBM, TI and many other companies make a nice living licensing their technology to former infringers. It may be "off-putting" to you that IP can be owned, however you do not create reality, in the US the rule of law, at least in theory, and a solid basis for a legal argument does that.
"Market. App store developers may have figured wrong, and their solution is to monitor hardware they don't, nor never did, own, think of owning, have the ability to own... You get the point. Turns out, full-page-webbrowser-guy, you figured wrong. There is no market for your product, or you'd be able to sell it. Invading my privacy, exposing my personal information to attack, and muddling around with my hardware to validate your poorly chosen market foray, is wholly unacceptable."
The solution for you is to not buy or pirate the app.
"I'm tired of these draconian reactions from devs. Get over yourselves already. Commercial software only existed within the context of a tiny number of people being capable of producing it - You know, 30 years ago. I'm sorry your little dollar app didn't go viral. I'm sorry that I can get hundreds of software products like the one in question, for free. I'm sorry for you, developer."
Commercial software is alive and well and it is not from "a tiny number of people capable of producing it", rather from a large body of developers that exists throughout the planet. Yes you can get apps for free, good for you, and if this dev does not get enough sales they may go out of business and that is the way it should be. I am not sorry for the dev in the least, except in regards to people of high character pirating thier goods for free, if they go out of business because that is the way the free market should work.
"Pity too as you can't even seem to come up with a piece of software some one would be compelled to pay a dollar for. I mean, ouch."
Yes that may be a pity, but have to got off your duff and developed an app and tried to market it and sell it or have you just whined and complained and done nothing? If you have an app on the app store let me know and I will check it out and review it.
However companies and independent developers profit from their IP every day. Apple, IBM, TI and many other companies make a nice living licensing their technology to former infringers. It may be "off-putting" to you that IP can be owned, however you do not create reality, in the US the rule of law, at least in theory, and a solid basis for a legal argument does that.
"Market. App store developers may have figured wrong, and their solution is to monitor hardware they don't, nor never did, own, think of owning, have the ability to own... You get the point. Turns out, full-page-webbrowser-guy, you figured wrong. There is no market for your product, or you'd be able to sell it. Invading my privacy, exposing my personal information to attack, and muddling around with my hardware to validate your poorly chosen market foray, is wholly unacceptable."
The solution for you is to not buy or pirate the app.
"I'm tired of these draconian reactions from devs. Get over yourselves already. Commercial software only existed within the context of a tiny number of people being capable of producing it - You know, 30 years ago. I'm sorry your little dollar app didn't go viral. I'm sorry that I can get hundreds of software products like the one in question, for free. I'm sorry for you, developer."
Commercial software is alive and well and it is not from "a tiny number of people capable of producing it", rather from a large body of developers that exists throughout the planet. Yes you can get apps for free, good for you, and if this dev does not get enough sales they may go out of business and that is the way it should be. I am not sorry for the dev in the least, except in regards to people of high character pirating thier goods for free, if they go out of business because that is the way the free market should work.
"Pity too as you can't even seem to come up with a piece of software some one would be compelled to pay a dollar for. I mean, ouch."
Yes that may be a pity, but have to got off your duff and developed an app and tried to market it and sell it or have you just whined and complained and done nothing? If you have an app on the app store let me know and I will check it out and review it.
#5
UntouchableForce
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:07 PM
Wow Vance,
That a very extremist point of view to be against all forms of Intellectual Property. I'm against obvious software patents (and really most software patents in general) and obtrusive DRM more than the majority of people. In fact I will not play a game with anything more than the mildest of DRM, a serial number and a non obtrusive disc check is fine. I'd prefer to not have the disc but it's something I can live with. Note that I said play and not purchase. That means I will not steal the game, I simply ignore it.
The person who developed this application put time into making it and is attempting to be paid for his work. It's no different than the city paying a lot of money to build a sewage treatment plant to clean the water supply. If you own a house and are attached to the sewage system you have to pay a small amount of the total cost of that treatment facility. In exchange you get clean water. In this fictional scenario there's nothing stopping you from cleaning your own water. (In actuality I'm sure there would be)
It's the same thing here, this guy put time (for the sake of argument we'll say time = money) and at least $99 down to become a registered developed so they could publish on the Application store. If you want to use his app he's saying it'll cost you $1. He's not stopping you from paying the $99 and building it yourself.
If you expect to get all i.p for free how exactly do you expect everyone to make a living? Service/Construction/Assembly jobs are all that would be left.
Again I'm not one of these die hard I.P. guys but I don't believe that you're entitled to something for free simply because making a copy of something takes no effort on their part. If I bought a copy of the software for the entire development cost plus fair compensation for his time then I would agree with you. But that is simply not the case.
You flat out want free applications and that's fine, there are plenty of them, but his isn't so you shouldn't use it unless you pay for it.
That a very extremist point of view to be against all forms of Intellectual Property. I'm against obvious software patents (and really most software patents in general) and obtrusive DRM more than the majority of people. In fact I will not play a game with anything more than the mildest of DRM, a serial number and a non obtrusive disc check is fine. I'd prefer to not have the disc but it's something I can live with. Note that I said play and not purchase. That means I will not steal the game, I simply ignore it.
The person who developed this application put time into making it and is attempting to be paid for his work. It's no different than the city paying a lot of money to build a sewage treatment plant to clean the water supply. If you own a house and are attached to the sewage system you have to pay a small amount of the total cost of that treatment facility. In exchange you get clean water. In this fictional scenario there's nothing stopping you from cleaning your own water. (In actuality I'm sure there would be)
It's the same thing here, this guy put time (for the sake of argument we'll say time = money) and at least $99 down to become a registered developed so they could publish on the Application store. If you want to use his app he's saying it'll cost you $1. He's not stopping you from paying the $99 and building it yourself.
If you expect to get all i.p for free how exactly do you expect everyone to make a living? Service/Construction/Assembly jobs are all that would be left.
Again I'm not one of these die hard I.P. guys but I don't believe that you're entitled to something for free simply because making a copy of something takes no effort on their part. If I bought a copy of the software for the entire development cost plus fair compensation for his time then I would agree with you. But that is simply not the case.
You flat out want free applications and that's fine, there are plenty of them, but his isn't so you shouldn't use it unless you pay for it.
#7
UntouchableForce
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:13 PM
Unless he can prove code was directly lifted from his or he has a software patent or a "look and feel " patent he can take them to court all he wants. He'll lose.
I am against software patents for everything but extremely original solutions just for the record. That however does not change the current state of affairs.
I am against software patents for everything but extremely original solutions just for the record. That however does not change the current state of affairs.
#8
Hurley42
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:55 PM
I am not surprised Apple is not doing much about this. They have removed piracy measures from recent offerings like iWork 09 (simply by editing a plist file) and iLife 09 (which has no protection). And Aperture can be had for free by just downloading a trial and then coping and pasting a serial number from pirate bay. Even though Apple could certainly disable the serial number in new trial downloads - they have not. (or so I've heard)
I don't think Apple is pro-piracy, but I do think they want people to use their software, get hooked on it, and then Apple will charge the prices that Adobe does a few years down the road if/when some of their software gains wider acceptance. Unfortunately for iPhone developers, they are unlikely to benefit from such a move - but who knows. Maybe a full screen browser will cost $99 in 5 years :)
I don't think Apple is pro-piracy, but I do think they want people to use their software, get hooked on it, and then Apple will charge the prices that Adobe does a few years down the road if/when some of their software gains wider acceptance. Unfortunately for iPhone developers, they are unlikely to benefit from such a move - but who knows. Maybe a full screen browser will cost $99 in 5 years :)
#9
matt_kizerian
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:08 PM
@Vance: Your argument falls flat on at least two counts. First, we aren't talking about IP here. IP involves protection of ideas and technical implementations that are non-obvious. Personally, I'm for loosening rather than tightening software and process patents, but again, that's neither here nor there. We are talking about a product. As others have indicated, this is something the author spent time and money to develop. I doubt he or she would care if you produced software that performed the same function, even if it was implemented in the same fashion.
Secondly, you make it sound as if you are being forced to install and use the software. Don't use it and you won't be subject to the monitoring discussed. You can always fire up XCode and write a version for yourself. (Oh yeah, you'll need to pony up $100 if you want to install it on your iPhone.)
Secondly, you make it sound as if you are being forced to install and use the software. Don't use it and you won't be subject to the monitoring discussed. You can always fire up XCode and write a version for yourself. (Oh yeah, you'll need to pony up $100 if you want to install it on your iPhone.)
#10
VanceLongwell
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 07:50 PM
But, but, but, you just contradicted yourself. You open by offering the opinion that you are on-board with my sentiment that intellectual-property rights are out of control, and go on to advocate the same thing I do. You then end by saying I'm wrong. I just don't get it. Many, many, many things that should be marketable as software turn out to simply not be. I've been repeatedly directed to write my own apps rather than call foul on duder mad he can't pawn his value-less wares. I assert they are valuless because the software was stolen rather than purchased. If his market valued his app, they wouldn't steal it. Quite simple really. Knowing this, why on Earth would I write a one-dollar commercial app? I'd just write my own.
It's a character issue. Some people get way to close to their freeway exit, and then make a dangerous lane-sweep to make their exit. Others in the same situation wouldn't dream of endangering themselves, and others in such a manner, and chalk it up to, "I missed my turn". This whole story smacks of a guy mad 'cause nobody will buy his value-less product, not because it is being stolen.
Xcode is about the last IDE I'd use, BTW. Well, I'd use that before I'd buy an iPhone. Try Eclipse, or Komodo, or something else that actually works for something besides an Apple product.
Bottom line? If you have a marketable product, people will buy it. If you have a product with no value, but some usefulness, it's likely going to get pirated. Who doesn't know this? Oh ya, the guy about to drag a bunch of other folks into court over it, that's who.
It's a character issue. Some people get way to close to their freeway exit, and then make a dangerous lane-sweep to make their exit. Others in the same situation wouldn't dream of endangering themselves, and others in such a manner, and chalk it up to, "I missed my turn". This whole story smacks of a guy mad 'cause nobody will buy his value-less product, not because it is being stolen.
Xcode is about the last IDE I'd use, BTW. Well, I'd use that before I'd buy an iPhone. Try Eclipse, or Komodo, or something else that actually works for something besides an Apple product.
Bottom line? If you have a marketable product, people will buy it. If you have a product with no value, but some usefulness, it's likely going to get pirated. Who doesn't know this? Oh ya, the guy about to drag a bunch of other folks into court over it, that's who.
#11
Wizardling
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 08:13 PM
VanceLongwell said:
Bottom line? If you have a marketable product, people will buy it. If you have a product with no value, but some usefulness, it's likely going to get pirated. Who doesn't know this? Oh ya, the guy about to drag a bunch of other folks into court over it, that's who.
I must be too dumb to understand the difference between "value" and "usefulness". Perhaps you'd care to enlighten me, oh wise troll? Yes - troll. You gave it away with the anti-xCode rubbish. Any decent developer will tell you xCode is GREAT compared to the free development environments available for OSX. You're not very bright, are you? Hell - you don't even use a Mac. You would never pay extra for anything - LOL! So why are you here? One word: troll. It comes down to that. You're just a sad attention-seeking troll :-D
#12
uchuugaka
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:43 PM
Eclipse? Komodo?
slow
not mac like
geared toward java
komodo is not free either, dude.
why do people feel the need to pirate these little apps?
they already pay for their phone and service
these apps cost one dollar.
what else can you buy for one dollar?
It's just lame that there are so many dishonest jerks in the world.
software is not all free.
neither is labor or material goods or real estate.
some is.
respect it, or see your own go away.
slow
not mac like
geared toward java
komodo is not free either, dude.
why do people feel the need to pirate these little apps?
they already pay for their phone and service
these apps cost one dollar.
what else can you buy for one dollar?
It's just lame that there are so many dishonest jerks in the world.
software is not all free.
neither is labor or material goods or real estate.
some is.
respect it, or see your own go away.
#13
LowededWookie
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Posted 10 March 2009 - 11:38 PM
"Enjoyed the article. I must admit to having very little sympathy for anyone profiting/attempting to profit from intellectual property. The whole notion that this sort of thing can be owned in the first place, is off-putting."
Develop an app yourself and see how off putting it is that you can't protect your code.
There's nothing wrong with trying to protect something you built. Do you have a security system in your house? If so why because clearly you shouldn't care if someone comes along and takes your stuff.
Develop an app yourself and see how off putting it is that you can't protect your code.
There's nothing wrong with trying to protect something you built. Do you have a security system in your house? If so why because clearly you shouldn't care if someone comes along and takes your stuff.
#14
VanceLongwell
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Posted 11 March 2009 - 12:15 AM
Alrighty then. Let the personal attacks begin! My man, at least I know the difference between, "usefulness", and "value".
Look, I would never personally write an application for sale. It's asinine. The only way to keep it from being pirated involves comprimising my customer's privacy, or other less than ethical solutions. Therefore, it is not rational expecting to profit monetarily from code they wrote personally. Oh, and you build houses and roads. You write programming languages, by the way. It is just this irrational distortion of the, "value", of what you do which is write some words, and compile them into ones and zeros, that makes me so irrational about this myself. It's like this guy left his wallet on the counter in the men's room, and now everybody get's a strip search on their way out of the bar because of some one else's ill-advised bs.
One more time. If you don't want your stuff stolen, lock all your doors and don't leave your house. Otherwise, roll the dice like you have a pair.
Dev something for the PS network if you need your buck so bad. Otherwise, be flattered people find your valueless app useful.
I was trolling though. Not to cause trouble, I was just bored. So, I guess you got me there!
Look, I would never personally write an application for sale. It's asinine. The only way to keep it from being pirated involves comprimising my customer's privacy, or other less than ethical solutions. Therefore, it is not rational expecting to profit monetarily from code they wrote personally. Oh, and you build houses and roads. You write programming languages, by the way. It is just this irrational distortion of the, "value", of what you do which is write some words, and compile them into ones and zeros, that makes me so irrational about this myself. It's like this guy left his wallet on the counter in the men's room, and now everybody get's a strip search on their way out of the bar because of some one else's ill-advised bs.
One more time. If you don't want your stuff stolen, lock all your doors and don't leave your house. Otherwise, roll the dice like you have a pair.
Dev something for the PS network if you need your buck so bad. Otherwise, be flattered people find your valueless app useful.
I was trolling though. Not to cause trouble, I was just bored. So, I guess you got me there!
