[KGBguy]

Heh where in the world he got those numbers..... crazy, crazy people out there. Mobile me Fam pack 70 at the most, Apple care 150, iwork and ilife buy a fam pack and split with fiends.... and so on...

[folklore]

nyip11 said:

The funny thing is when people buy cars, they don't use this paradigm at all... But when it comes to computers, suddenly price is everything. And people would buy the cheapest computer on the market. Don't forget you have to live with that computer for a few years. And like a car, you want it to take you from point A to point B safely, comfortably, and in style.

Exactly right.

Apple isn't chasing the customers who make decisions solely on price. And it shouldn't, because what matters isn't simply sales volume but profit margins. Ultimately, there are some customers that just aren't worth having.

[lwdesign]

JDW said:

As to your comments about "the Apple of the 90s," no one is asking for Apple to create another Performa line, and certainly not me. I thought Apple was nuts when that first came out back in the 1990's as it confused the heck out of people with so many different models. But one more machine (the missing mid-range tower) or a quadcore iMac (without gloss) is certainly not "the Performa line all over again." There is also the mistaken assumption that Apple would then be on the road to "catering to the needs of everyone" if it comes out with a mid-range tower (or beefier iMac). I see no logic whatsoever behind that thinking. You cannot please everyone, but why resist a few minor changes to please a few more people? What I have proposed (which is what many have also proposed) is actually a small set of changes while keeping the product line simple and lean. Such would ultimately bring more Mac users into the fold. And again, a matte screen and quadcore CPU on an iMac priced at $1,999 would do the trick quite nicely.

I am not sure what to make of your last paragraph with respect to discussions on a $1,500 mid-range tower or beefier iMac in that price range. Spending more than $2,700 on a Mac Pro setup is difficult if not impossible for many in the middle class, and even for some small businesses. In my case, I cannot purchase a business computer over $2,000 due to silly Japanese tax laws.

lwdesign, I am happy to see I am not alone in this thread. But there are more of us out there than some will admit. An expandable machine at $1,500 is really a sweet spot that Apple is missing now. I can only hope that Steve Jobs will return this June with a fresh look at what he's been missing!

Thanks JDW. There are thousands of us who've been asking for a headless mid-tower for years! I do own a Mac Pro and it's great. It runs my 30" Cinema Display wonderfully which I need for my graphic design business (www.designstrategies.com), but I don't have any additional cards installed in the expansion slots, so all that technology goes to waste for me. Here are my specs for the perfect graphic design machine (and I believe for a LOT of other people who don't need the expandability of the Mac Pro):

1) A simple aluminum box about half the size of the Mac Pro with a Quad processor at about 2.66GHz or better

2) One internal PCI slot for an additional card (more USB or Firewire ports perhaps?) -- OR as an alternative: An ExpressCard/34 slot so laptop options could be used

3) Slots for 4-8 GBs of RAM

4) Airport card, Bluetooth optional

5) Single internal Superdrive

6) Ethernet, 4 USB ports, 2 Firewire 800 ports

7) Video card options that can run all of Apple's monitors, including the 30" Cinema Display, as well as non-Apple monitors (for those who want a matte option if Apple cancels their last remaining matte display)

8) Room for 2 internal hard drives (one main drive and one for Time Machine backup)

This, in my humble opinion, would be the perfect "everyman" headless Mac. It would mean that the Mac Pro would move to where it should rightfully be: For users who want the maximum of power, RAM and expandability for scientific work, high-end video and audio, etc.

I'm a 20-year veteran Mac user (bought my first Mac SE/30 in 1989) and a power-user, but I don't need my expansion slots, nor do I need 4 internal drives. A scaled-down Mac Pro -- call it the Mac Midi for lack of a better term -- would be cost-effective for Apple at about $1500 while still retaining good margins. Adding a single customizable unit in this mid range would generate millions for Apple's coffers.

I'd buy one in a hot second. Anybody think this would be a good idea beside JDW and me?

[JDW]

lwdesign said:

I'd buy one in a hot second. Anybody think this would be a good idea beside JDW and me?

Outstanding post! But to answer your question, sadly, I don't see evidence of anyone else in this thread who really cares. Indeed, most basically feel like the person prior to your post who blasted us by saying, "there are some customers that aren't worth having." I don't know if one could be more insulting if they really tried with all their might. No, this thread is all about singing praises to the status quo while blindly following Jobs & Ive. I love Apple, and I don't stand in defense of MS ads or tactics, but I don't think Apple is correct all the time. You will never get a Mac to become as cheap as a PC. And I don't want that. But calling for a $1,500 mid-range tower or beefier iMac isn't calling for that.

By the way, I still own and use an SE/30! Here's a pic. This is one of the best 68k "compact" Macs Apple has ever made. It also fetches rather high prices on EBAY too. The reason is because it was fast and expandable, yet still a cute compact Mac. Interestingly, the SE/30 come on the scene when Jobs was not at Apple. I doubt Jobs ever would have sanctioned such a great machine as the SE/30 had he been Apple's CEO at the time.

[robinh]

All I can say is Roger L. Kay should be stuck in the 'B Ark' (Hitch-Hikers Guide) and fired off into space.

[lord_xaero]

A few things. I will preface this with I do have some apple hardware, and I had more at one point but I am definately in the pc camp.

1) Anyone who needs to do ANYTHING on a pc can do it. If there is software available it can be don on a pc, PERIOD. if I want to edit videos I can use one of a thousand programs to do anything i want to it, most are FREE( virtualdub springs to mind) there are countless free and cheap programs for the pc to do anything we want to. just because a couple like premiere are HORRIFICALLY expensive doesn't mean they all are.

2) If you truly wish to figure out the market for a thing, look around. If i go out on the street and see a million Toyotas and 2 Fords, I tend to believe that the Toyota appeals to more people than the Ford. In a market where one thing has 7.8 percent of the total market and there are only two things in the market. It does not require a brain surgeon to figure out that one is VASTLY more popular than the other. This must mean that either 92.2% of the world is completly retarded or there must be a few reasons people do not buy macs.

3) in Apple computers you get what they sell. If you want something else, you are made to believe that there is no need to do what you want to do. Gaming comes to mind. (the first person to mention vmware fusion will be hit with the tac cannon from crysis warhead a game unplayable by anything with an apple on it) also on this list are the esoteric things you will only ever get with pcs because pcs for better or worse are WAY more prevalen t in the world.

4) those who point at the app store and say look you can only program for the iphone if you have a mac will get the dual respone of DUH, apple would love to use it's cash cow to sell last years milk. AND the response that macs aren't the only computers that run mac osx. there are many versions of macosx patched to run on any platform available. Just dual boot my pc and run ilife and final cut pro and any mac software out there. Reboot and its off to crysis.

5) For those of you not familiar with the history of your operating system it was designed on a pc. It is a custom version of FREEBsd, designed, written and run on pcs long before it ever touched an apple logo.

Oh, I have several ipods (runing rockbox) an ipod touch jailbroken. and an iphone 3g(given to me, ran for a few days, and put back in the box.) on a side note the iphone is the best 1999 had to offer.We like little things like stereo bluetooth. Bluetooth file transfer, MMS, cut and past, data that doesn't cut you off at 10mb, any app YOU wanted not what would be approved by your apple masters, video recording, and last but not least a battery that is both removable and lasts more than an hour when you dare to use your bloody phone.Do not get me started on the apple store, I have had some fun times in there that were similar to the dmv if it were run by insane, snobbish, antisocial, retard monkeys. Come to think of it, is that where they recruit from?

[MrYmath]

And what price is peace of mind? A Microsoft (PC) user from 1983 until 2007. A Mac user from 2007 until ... The number of Mac crashes (freezes requiring reboot) in two years? Perhaps 3. The number of Tiger or Leopard re-installs? 0. The number of Windows PC crashes from 1983 until 2007? Countless. The number of Windows re-installs in that time frame? Countless. Peace of mind obtained since 2007? Priceless. Oh yes, I still run Windows XP under VMWare Fusion with only those products that have no Mac equivalent. How many are there that I need? Less than 5.

[Macalways]

lord_xaero said:

1) Anyone who needs to do ANYTHING on a pc can do it. If there is software available it can be don on a pc, PERIOD. if I want to edit videos I can use one of a thousand programs to do anything i want to it, most are FREE( virtualdub springs to mind) there are countless free and cheap programs for the pc to do anything we want to. just because a couple like premiere are HORRIFICALLY expensive doesn't mean they all are.

5) For those of you not familiar with the history of your operating system it was designed on a pc. It is a custom version of FREEBsd, designed, written and run on pcs (NOT) long before it ever touched an apple logo.

Oh, I have several ipods (runing rockbox) an ipod touch jailbroken. and an iphone 3g(given to me, ran for a few days, and put back in the box.) on a side note the iphone is the best 1999 had to offer.We like little things like stereo bluetooth. Bluetooth file transfer, MMS, cut and past, data that doesn't cut you off at 10mb, any app YOU wanted not what would be approved by your apple masters, video recording, and last but not least a battery that is both removable and lasts more than an hour when you dare to use your bloody phone.Do not get me started on the apple store, I have had some fun times in there that were similar to the dmv if it were run by insane, snobbish, antisocial, retard monkeys. Come to think of it, is that where they recruit from?

Are we to gather that you work for FREE? Or are you one of those who take but never give?

[robinh]

At the end of the day the article is about Microsoft sponsoring someone to produce a report that paints the PC/Windows option in a favourable light.

Even though the assumptions and figures are demonstrably 'massaged' to favour a Windows solution, IT IS NOTHING NEW. Microsoft will continue to try and manipulate the computer buying public with clever advertising and publicity in exactly the same way that Apple do whenever they get the chance.

It's all about paying your money and making your choice, so why can't everyone be happy with what they've got and leave everyone else alone to get on with what they've got?

[CyberBiker]

There are lies, damned lies and statistics
Samuel Clemmens

[JDW]

lord_xaero said:

5) For those of you not familiar with the history of your operating system it was designed on a pc. It is a custom version of FREEBsd, designed, written and run on pcs long before it ever touched an apple logo.

Mac OS X is not simply the same old NeXT OS that Steve built when he was ousted from Apple. The OS X we use today has pretty much the look and feel of the legacy Mac OS that was built on an Apple Lisa, not a PC. Note the menu bar atop the screen, the apple logo at left, basic structure of menus, folders, and so on -- very similar to what we had in 1984 on a Mac 128k. Your "custom version of FREEBsd" remark makes it sound like anyone could have put together OS X using open source software.

So when do we get to see you in the next Microsoft TV ad?

[carp3tshark]

Roger L. Kay, President
Endpoint Technologies Associates, Inc.
Phone: (508) 720-3469
Mobile: (508) 314-4443
k@ndpta.com

[marelven]

The best take I've seen to date about this comes from the Macalope himself : http://www.macalope....04/09/no-no-no/
Microsoft isn't kidding anybody with their commercials and their «studies», not even themselves. And that's because there is hundreds of millions of people out there who have to deal with their products on a daily basis...

[edb00]

Overlooks the obvious...
Our small business runs several Macs that are 5 or more years old our oldest PC is 3 years old and ready to be replaced. Never had a PC that was worth turning on after 5 years.
So where in the 5 year expense plane are the new PC's at year 3 or 4?