[CThomas]

Yes, let's frame the issue that way. It's not whether, on balance, matte or glossy is "better." Glossy is great for video, I gather. Nor is the question whether 10 percent or 20 percent or 40 percent of Mac users prefer matte over glossy. (I.e., whether Mac made a wise or unwise decision overall in going to the glossy screen).

The issue is: Some of us suffer eyestrain using a glossy screen, even if we rearrange the lighting in our offices (and some of us can't rearrange the lighting). Eyestrain can make work unpleasant or even impossible. So why not offer matte as an option? Apples are already expensive -- it sucks to have to ruin the look of the machine by buyinig a filter and hanging it off the iMac (as I've done) or to have to buy a new monitor on a machine that comes with one.

To repeat: If you like glossy, wonderful. But unlike, say, the non-removable battery in an iPod, this inflexiblity on Apple's part flirts with being a deal-killer for some of us.

[Panglos]

Quote

Consider the following.

10 complaints about the aluminum casing.
20 complaints about the new chiclet keyboard.
50 complaints about the glossy screen.

Consider the following.

10 complaints about the aluminum casing.
20 complaints about the chiclet keyboard.
50,000 complaints about the glossy screen.

Or how about this:

10% of the complaints are about the aluminum casing.
20% of the complaints are about the new chiclet keyboard.
50% of the complaints are about the glossy screen.

See? Anyone can play number games.

Quote

Shazam, the number one complaint is the glossy screen.

Just because it's number one doesn't mean it's a huge number.

Does being #1 it mean it's a small number?

Quote

The fact that the iMac sells extremely well is good empirical evidence that what you call hubris is actually targeting consumer wants.

Could it be empirical evidence that the company is focused on selling product, as opposed to satisfying customers? You know, looks good in the showroom, performs poorly in real-world use? Just thinkin' out loud...

Quote

And on a final note, Matthew 23:12 is probably more applicable to people who swing the scripture at others to condemn them.

As a non-religious person, I wouldn't want to speculate on that. Regardless of its ultimate source, it's a gem of wisdom that has repeatedly proven worthwhile and, more to the point, is applicable in this instance. To the degree such axioms are sacrosanct with certain Americans (said to be a majority), the point is only reinforced.

[palane]

@CThomas - There are plenty of matte screens out there. I think a critical hole in Apple's lineup is a headless iMac (or a superpowered Mini). Unfortunately, this topic has been discussed to death without any indications of a favorable response from Apple. Until then, the Dell in my lab stays.

BB

[palane]

I have one of the unibody MacBook Pros. I like the entire design, which I don't think is compatible with a matte screen. I do notice reflections at times, but it's not annoying to me.

I wear eye glasses or contacts. My glasses pick up smudges and so there is an overlay on my vision until I clean them. I take it as that level of annoyance. It's not that I LIKE the glossy screen, just that it doesn't bother me.

BB

[javaholic]

“You offset the reflection by the brightness, and consumers love it. One of the great things about a notebook is you can turn it however you want!”. Phil Schiller.
Honestly Phil, that’s got to be one of the most air headed comments I think I’ve heard yet. Sounds like an infomercial or something. The bottom line is Apple should have continued to offer both options, because by not doing so, the message they’re sending to a certain customer demographic is they have little interest in you or your requirements. For such an innovative company at times they really lack some common sense. But then ergonomics has never really been their strong point.

[dreamery]

I have been getting a new Mac almost every year except for the last two. I am sticking with what I have at the moment. I just hate the glossy screen. As a graphic designer/illustrator, I find extremely hard to view the screen without seeing background disturbance. Seriously, it's worth looking at other options

[lwdesign]

javaholic said:

“You offset the reflection by the brightness, and consumers love it. One of the great things about a notebook is you can turn it however you want!”. Phil Schiller.

Honestly Phil, that’s got to be one of the most air headed comments I think I’ve heard yet. Sounds like an infomercial or something. The bottom line is Apple should have continued to offer both options, because by not doing so, the message they’re sending to a certain customer demographic is they have little interest in you or your requirements. For such an innovative company at times they really lack some common sense. But then ergonomics has never really been their strong point.

I think glass screens have taken over because 1) they're relatively inexpensive to produce, 2) matte screens are usually made of plastic and not as recyclable or environmentally friendly (Apple is trying to go as green as possible), 3) glass matte screens are more expensive to produce as they involve special coatings that need to be baked on, and are prone to scratching (remember the days of CRTs), and 4) colors tend to pop a bit more on a clear glass screen than on a matte screen.

None of these, however, mean that matte screens are bad or not desirable. They were the standard until Apple decided to discontinue them. There are only 2 matte options in the Mac product lineup left: the 17" MacBook Pro option and the 30" Cinema Display, but who knows for how much longer they'll exists.

Apple says that consumers LOVE the new glass screens. I'm a consumer and they didn't ask me. I detest them as they cause way too much glare, even in dim rooms, and the extra brightness (even at the lowest setting) causes me to squint. The new screens are too bright for me. There was nothing wrong with the older matte screens, and Apple should definitely offer them as an option in all models, including the 24" Cinema Display. I'd pay extra to have it.

[rfmatos]

I just bought a refurbished previous gen iMac (2.66ghz C2Duo). I thought I would hate the glossy finish. For one, our computer hutch faces a window on the opposite wall and we don't currently have an option for locating the iMac in a different position. With the monitor dark, it's basically like a mirror and there is plenty of glare from the window. However, I have not had any trouble while actually using the computer. I don't really notice excessive glare or reflection. I DO notice, however, that the quality of the 20" panel is seemingly inferior to the panel that was in my older G5 20" iMac. The screen image degrades at any viewing angle other than pretty much right in front of the monitor, which is fine for normal use, but readily apparent if I am standing as opposed to sitting in front of the monitor.

[iSamNC]

I got my first Mac (an iMac) and very soon after they announced the new ones. My first feeling was that it was just typical of my luck - I bought my first iPod and the following week they dropped the price by about 15%. But when I visited an Apple store shortly after the announcement I was gleeful at my GOOD fortune! Ick - I could see myself before I ever even got close to the table where the new iMacs were. The body was massively sexy but the screen was awful. It's all shiny - and while that looks nice in the store I can't imagine having to work on it for any extended period of time. My daughter has a laptop with a glossy screen and it drives me nuts every time I need to work on it So for the first time I was very happy that I was behind by the curve by one model.

I think this is one of those cases where one of my Anti-Apple friends is able to correctly point out that Apple is emphasizing form over function. It >looks< cool... but using it is not so cool. I know, some will disagree because there is a subjective part to this issue, but as others have pointed out there are a lot of users who lose real functionality.

Don't misunderstand me - I wouldn't trade my Mac for 100 PCs - but sometime Apple just worries too much about what's "cool". And this, I think, is one of those times. I absolutely dig Apple products but I'm not one of those Apple zombies who thinks they can do no wrong.

I just hope that they offer a matte option before I need to refresh!

[lwdesign]

iSamNC said:

I got my first Mac (an iMac) and very soon after they announced the new ones. My first feeling was that it was just typical of my luck - I bought my first iPod and the following week they dropped the price by about 15%. But when I visited an Apple store shortly after the announcement I was gleeful at my GOOD fortune! Ick - I could see myself before I ever even got close to the table where the new iMacs were. The body was massively sexy but the screen was awful. It's all shiny - and while that looks nice in the store I can't imagine having to work on it for any extended period of time. My daughter has a laptop with a glossy screen and it drives me nuts every time I need to work on it So for the first time I was very happy that I was behind by the curve by one model.


I think this is one of those cases where one of my Anti-Apple friends is able to correctly point out that Apple is emphasizing form over function. It >looks< cool... but using it is not so cool. I know, some will disagree because there is a subjective part to this issue, but as others have pointed out there are a lot of users who lose real functionality.


Don't misunderstand me - I wouldn't trade my Mac for 100 PCs - but sometime Apple just worries too much about what's "cool". And this, I think, is one of those times. I absolutely dig Apple products but I'm not one of those Apple zombies who thinks they can do no wrong.


I just hope that they offer a matte option before I need to refresh!

The glass screen isn't about looking "cool" it's about Apple using primarily aluminum and glass, which are highly recyclable materials. Plastic matte screens reduce Apple's "green" profile. Also, glass screens have been adopted by nearly all PC and TV manufacturers, as they increase the contrast and saturation of colors. However, like you, I will NOT use a glass screen on my monitors or my TV due to the godawful reflections. We have 3 iMacs, a 17" MacBook Pro and a 30" Cinema Display in our office, and all are matte. The iMacs are still the white models with 2.16 GHz processors and 3GB of RAM. If the newer iMacs had a non-glossy screen, all the iMacs would be aluminum and have faster processors, but in this case, eye comfort trumped speed.

[TechRestore]

I'll chime in here with a comment about the LCD screens themselves. The glossy screens used underneath the glass are essentially the same as their matte finished ancestors. The only thing that made the screen glossy in older model MacBook and MacBook Pro systems was the use of a glossy polarizer - the thin plastic cover that overlays the glass portion of the LCD screen.

On the Unibody MacBook and MacBook Pro systems, along with the new iMacs, Apple has added a layer of glass on top of the glossy LCD screen - making the new models doubly shiny.

Not sure if that clears up some of the questions about the glossy vs. matte.

best,
Shannon Jean
TechRestore
http://techrestore.com

[GerryH]

>>> If you don't like the glare, you can also attach a second monitor which has a matte screen to the iMac. That solves the problem, period.



Sure buy a Mac that includes a monitor, then replace it with another better monitor.

I have a better solution, which I have done. :x

Buy a Mac Mini and a quality matte monitor.

Yes the Mini is a bit slower, but OK for many APPs.

[MacNymph]

I tried the 2nd monitor option - with a 24" iMac and a 2nd monitor I had NO room left on my desk for external backup drives, etc. Also, the ViewSonic monitor didn't give me the display I needed; can't afford the Eizo I need!

It's not the glossy screen that bothers me as much as the fact that on my iMac, I cannot turn the brightness down. The brightness is absolutely blinding me. (I have a mid-2007 iMac)

Is anyone else having problems with the screen brightness or could my Mac be broken?

Appreciate any comments.
MacNymph

[lwdesign]

MacNymph said:

I tried the 2nd monitor option - with a 24" iMac and a 2nd monitor I had NO room left on my desk for external backup drives, etc. Also, the ViewSonic monitor didn't give me the display I needed; can't afford the Eizo I need!

It's not the glossy screen that bothers me as much as the fact that on my iMac, I cannot turn the brightness down. The brightness is absolutely blinding me. (I have a mid-2007 iMac)

Is anyone else having problems with the screen brightness or could my Mac be broken?

Appreciate any comments.
MacNymph

Unfortunately on the aluminum iMacs, Apple has increased the brightness of the screen considerably. I bought a new 24" aluminum iMac and after working at it for an hour, even with the brightness turned down to its lowest setting, I felt sunburned, was squinting badly and had a headache. I normally work at a 30" Apple Cinema Display for hours at a time and experience none of this. The new screens are way too bright for me (and the reflections drive me buggy), so I returned the iMac to Apple and bought a used white 20" iMac (late 2006 model, 2.16 GHz) off eBay with the matte screen and I've been very happy with it. The matte screen has no reflections and the brightness can be turned down to a comfortable level so I don't have to squint.

I hated to send the aluminum iMac back, but like you are experiencing, the screen is just too bright--and I have no idea why Apple has done this. It seems silly to have a brightness setting, yet not be able to reduce it to a level comparable to older models. With the brightness turned up full, you could land a Boeing 747 in heavy fog. You might take it to the Genius Bar in your local Apple Store and see if they have a solution for this.