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@tebaker28
You wrote, "PC hardware can run any number of OSs (except MacOS but that's Apple's decision.)"
lol, we all know that stereotype about Mac users being idiots, but seriously...You hurt the fruit cake (Apple) cause. By now everyone and their mom knows MacOS runs great on PC hardware. Where have you been?
I'll concede that Apple designs some of the best hardware. Though I prefer Lenovo personally. Lenovo laptops rock because they're totally affordable, expandable and easy to work with. ...And they have MUCH better support than Apple. I'm writing this email on a T60p that's a few years old. I can upgrade anything in this laptop, including the CPU, for a few bucks. I love that.
Style wise I think Apple usually hits the mark 95% of the time. I LOVED their old MacBook and MacBook Pro styles. The new ones look like imitation Sony to me, which is lame. And I don't like the Tick-Tac style of the MacBook Air, etc. I, like most people, prefer that simple square look with hard lines.
I also think people like you, stupid Apple users, hurt the overall Apple movement. Sure MacOS is great, but so is Windows 7 and Vista. Most of Vista's problems were caused by hardware vendors cutting corners right before release (marking units as Vista ready when they weren't). Apple never has to deal with that drama because they control the hardware and software.
And I should mention, I am also a MacOS user. Vista has NEVER crashed and burned on my T60p. I wish I could say the same for MacOS, which has gone blank many times in the middle of important work. Honestly, I don't trust my MacBook and MacOS. I save my work twice as frequently because I'm paranoid of MacOS crashing.
And when it comes to software, though you could simply run MacOS as a VM from any PC, there's A LOT more software for PC than Mac. So get over it. Apple makes great software, but so does Microsoft. Have you used the new Office?
Seriously people, let's be realistic here.
tebaker28, you embarrass me and you embarrass yourself. quit being such a douchebag.
Apple: "A PC is no bargain when it doesn't do what you want"
MultiQuote
#58
XMattingly 
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Posted 18 April 2009 - 10:43 AM
Tebaker28, I owe you an apology. I thought you might be trolling, but this guy definitely is.
Only with some serious technical tinkering, which the vast majority of people are not willing to do. And don't forget the problems you're likely to run into every time there is an OS update. Where are you?
I've heard good things about Lenovo, BUT... if you're going to toot your horn, facts always win over fiction.
A few bucks? Really? How's that Pineapple Express you're puffing on?
Most of us aren't involved in a "movement". We buy equipment that fills a need. We use it. And we move on with our lives.
As far as "hardware vendors cutting corners"... I don't think so! Vista's perceived value was hurt by system requirements that were too steep for the vast majority computers that were either sitting stagnant on retail shelves (or in warehouses), or already sitting on desks. What is a retailer to do - upgrade components at their own expense with no sales expectations, or sell stagnant equipment at a discount just so M$ can save face?
Maybe that's your clue why your so-called "Apple movement" has traction.
{size:10px}And I should mention, I am also a MacOS user.{size}
Insert standard forum trolling qualifier here...
{size:10px}Vista has NEVER crashed and burned on my T60p. I wish I could say the same for MacOS, which has gone blank many times in the middle of important work. Honestly, I don't trust my MacBook and MacOS. I save my work twice as frequently because I'm paranoid of MacOS crashing.{size}
Bad weed might be a bigger cause for your paranoia. Given the amount of fiction already on display in your post, I think it's safe to say your crash-prone Mac is more of the same.
{size:10px}And when it comes to software, though you could simply run MacOS as a VM from any PC, there's A LOT more software for PC than Mac.{size}
So what? There are thousands of crapperware prosumer apps available for PC's, but none of them get the rave reviews that Apple's iLife does... nor do they come with the computer for free. More is not the same as better ... most of us just want one good piece of software that does what we need well.
{size:10px}Seriously people, let's be realistic here.{size}
First time poster trolling for an argument with completely arbitrary and false points of reference? You're not a very good position to make a call for realism.
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{size:10px} Untitled wrote: By now everyone and their mom knows MacOS runs great on PC hardware. Where have you been?{size}
Only with some serious technical tinkering, which the vast majority of people are not willing to do. And don't forget the problems you're likely to run into every time there is an OS update. Where are you?
Quote
{size:10px}I'll concede that Apple designs some of the best hardware. Though I prefer Lenovo personally. ...And they have MUCH better support than Apple.{size}
I've heard good things about Lenovo, BUT... if you're going to toot your horn, facts always win over fiction.
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{size:10px}I can upgrade anything in this laptop, including the CPU, for a few bucks. I love that.{size}
A few bucks? Really? How's that Pineapple Express you're puffing on?
Quote
{size:10px}I also think people like you, stupid Apple users, hurt the overall Apple movement. Sure MacOS is great, but so is Windows 7 and Vista. Most of Vista's problems were caused by hardware vendors cutting corners right before release (marking units as Vista ready when they weren't).{size}
Most of us aren't involved in a "movement". We buy equipment that fills a need. We use it. And we move on with our lives.
As far as "hardware vendors cutting corners"... I don't think so! Vista's perceived value was hurt by system requirements that were too steep for the vast majority computers that were either sitting stagnant on retail shelves (or in warehouses), or already sitting on desks. What is a retailer to do - upgrade components at their own expense with no sales expectations, or sell stagnant equipment at a discount just so M$ can save face?
Quote
{size:10px}Apple never has to deal with that drama because they control the hardware and software.{size}
Maybe that's your clue why your so-called "Apple movement" has traction.
{size:10px}And I should mention, I am also a MacOS user.{size}
Insert standard forum trolling qualifier here...
{size:10px}Vista has NEVER crashed and burned on my T60p. I wish I could say the same for MacOS, which has gone blank many times in the middle of important work. Honestly, I don't trust my MacBook and MacOS. I save my work twice as frequently because I'm paranoid of MacOS crashing.{size}
Bad weed might be a bigger cause for your paranoia. Given the amount of fiction already on display in your post, I think it's safe to say your crash-prone Mac is more of the same.
{size:10px}And when it comes to software, though you could simply run MacOS as a VM from any PC, there's A LOT more software for PC than Mac.{size}
So what? There are thousands of crapperware prosumer apps available for PC's, but none of them get the rave reviews that Apple's iLife does... nor do they come with the computer for free. More is not the same as better ... most of us just want one good piece of software that does what we need well.
{size:10px}Seriously people, let's be realistic here.{size}
First time poster trolling for an argument with completely arbitrary and false points of reference? You're not a very good position to make a call for realism.
#59
tomascco
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Posted 18 April 2009 - 11:24 AM
The new Office? You cannot be serious! I assume you're speaking of MS Office 2007? The one with the fantastic "ribbon?" The one that Microsoft created to completely confuse and befuddle those who have used Office for the past decade or more?
The IT guy ordered my Dell with MS Office 2007 installed. After a frustrating three weeks of trying to burn through spreadsheets using my old shortcuts I finally gave up and installed OpenOffice. That was the most painful experience with software I've ever had.
If you're new to the game it might be a great program. But when you've built up muscle memory in using a program you expect those same key configs to carry over with the upgrade. I have never heard a single good reason for the upgrade or even an excuse for why they did not include a way to go back to the old menu scheme.
No, please don't say Microsoft and good software in the same sentence. Microsoft's OS has always been sold as beta. Windows Vista is not the fault of hardware manufacturer's who took shortcuts unless you really do want to point the finger at Dell and HP, and I think my machine was pretty damn powerful out of the box.
I proudly waved the Win2000 flag for years and eventually succumbed to the tempting cuteness of XP. But Vista was one toke over the line. What were they thinking? Mojave? The land of peyote is all I could think of with the whole Mojave crap. Crap is crap even when you wrap it in an Indian blanket.
I'm anxiously awaiting Windows 7 and not so much Snow Leopard.I'll upgrade the PC before I touch the Mac at least for a little while.
But there ain't no way in heck I'll go back to paying for Office after the 2007 abomination.
The IT guy ordered my Dell with MS Office 2007 installed. After a frustrating three weeks of trying to burn through spreadsheets using my old shortcuts I finally gave up and installed OpenOffice. That was the most painful experience with software I've ever had.
If you're new to the game it might be a great program. But when you've built up muscle memory in using a program you expect those same key configs to carry over with the upgrade. I have never heard a single good reason for the upgrade or even an excuse for why they did not include a way to go back to the old menu scheme.
No, please don't say Microsoft and good software in the same sentence. Microsoft's OS has always been sold as beta. Windows Vista is not the fault of hardware manufacturer's who took shortcuts unless you really do want to point the finger at Dell and HP, and I think my machine was pretty damn powerful out of the box.
I proudly waved the Win2000 flag for years and eventually succumbed to the tempting cuteness of XP. But Vista was one toke over the line. What were they thinking? Mojave? The land of peyote is all I could think of with the whole Mojave crap. Crap is crap even when you wrap it in an Indian blanket.
I'm anxiously awaiting Windows 7 and not so much Snow Leopard.I'll upgrade the PC before I touch the Mac at least for a little while.
But there ain't no way in heck I'll go back to paying for Office after the 2007 abomination.
#60
wynand32
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Posted 18 April 2009 - 11:36 AM
tomascco - Actually, I've been using Office since... well... since there was an Office. And although at first the ribbon turned me off, now I'd swear by it. When I go back to Office 2003, it seems kludgy in comparison. But, of course, that's so highly a preference thing that you either love it, or hate it, most likely.
#61
Fri13
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Posted 19 April 2009 - 10:55 PM
PC does stand for Personal Computer but it does not stand to personal computer. First personal computer was Simon. After that there were almost dozen of personal computers before first PC was released by IBM. IBM builded AT standard and many others for PC. IBM used BIOS to lock PC from personal computer markets so it could control it. Other manufactures started build Clone-PC's when Phoenix got reverse engineered the PC's BIOS and all could make PC compatible motherboards. IBM's PC was first personal computer what was so widely spreaded that you could profit by making software for it. Before PC, there was Apple's LISA personal computer.
PC = usually Windows, even that other OS's like Linux, BSD and even Minix or Hurd can run on it. Reason for this is that MS has controlled PC-computer markets, while it has never controlled Mac-computer markets because Apple owns them totally. PC is just a IBM's brand for personal computers and it should never be mistaken to be a synonym of personal computer.
MS sold it's MS-DOS to IBM by name PC-DOS. IBM was first PC manufacturer and designed PC. It wanted for it a own operating what MS buyed after the deal with IBM was done. MS wanted to mention in deal that it can sell the PC-DOS for other personal computer manufactures (not PC-manufacturers!) as MS-DOS. This is the reason why MS got as big as it is today. It got it's Operating System to PC and later on for clone-PC's what are build by Compaq, HP etc. Apple did never sell PC's, but own branded personal computers.
The mistake what most people do, is with PC what IBM branded for own personal computers. PC's history starts from 1981 and personal computers from 1949-1954.
Todays personal computers have joined to use more and more samekind hardware. Still there are differences on design that you can not just swap any PC-hardware to Mac-computer. The processor alone ain't the reason that PC exist, BIOS/EFI ain't alone such. Most important thing to know is that PC is just a brand like a Macintosh is. Both are brands for personal computers but on these days you dont any more talk about PC's. You talk about laptops, desktop computers and manufacturer's own brands like Classmate, Aspire One, Thinkpad etc. PC still lives on all of these because almost all personal computers are based to original PC standards, current most used standards are based to original standards of AT and XT. We still have BIOS (example the HP is offering EFI) and we still have backward compatible for PCI devices.
Truth is that PC is evolved as much as Macintosh has. They both have evolved more close each other and both of those cant be called in clear way a PC or Macintosh. They are on these days only a brands what should not be mistaken to personal computers. MS and Intel got own nickname 90's, it was Wintel. MS got monopoly on personal computers what included Intel's processor. MS did not have monopoly on personal computers or PC's. Only on exact share of markets and mostly on those days all had only the Intel processors on sold. You can read the US vs Microsoft official documents to find out that even they understand to separate PC and personal computer to two different things. Just like Operating System and software system, software platform and internet-browser.
Fact is that MS has over 95% marketshare on PC's but when counting all personal computers, it drops about 90%. PC is almost same as Windows. Even that there exist those other OS's (Linux, Hurd, BSD).
It is just stupid to think that Apple hits only the MS or PC. It hits against the wide range of different PC's what brings lots of problems of usability. Some hardware have problems to each other etc. And Apple builds only Mac-computers what just works out. All can design their software exactly to same hardware without glitches.
PC = usually Windows, even that other OS's like Linux, BSD and even Minix or Hurd can run on it. Reason for this is that MS has controlled PC-computer markets, while it has never controlled Mac-computer markets because Apple owns them totally. PC is just a IBM's brand for personal computers and it should never be mistaken to be a synonym of personal computer.
MS sold it's MS-DOS to IBM by name PC-DOS. IBM was first PC manufacturer and designed PC. It wanted for it a own operating what MS buyed after the deal with IBM was done. MS wanted to mention in deal that it can sell the PC-DOS for other personal computer manufactures (not PC-manufacturers!) as MS-DOS. This is the reason why MS got as big as it is today. It got it's Operating System to PC and later on for clone-PC's what are build by Compaq, HP etc. Apple did never sell PC's, but own branded personal computers.
The mistake what most people do, is with PC what IBM branded for own personal computers. PC's history starts from 1981 and personal computers from 1949-1954.
Todays personal computers have joined to use more and more samekind hardware. Still there are differences on design that you can not just swap any PC-hardware to Mac-computer. The processor alone ain't the reason that PC exist, BIOS/EFI ain't alone such. Most important thing to know is that PC is just a brand like a Macintosh is. Both are brands for personal computers but on these days you dont any more talk about PC's. You talk about laptops, desktop computers and manufacturer's own brands like Classmate, Aspire One, Thinkpad etc. PC still lives on all of these because almost all personal computers are based to original PC standards, current most used standards are based to original standards of AT and XT. We still have BIOS (example the HP is offering EFI) and we still have backward compatible for PCI devices.
Truth is that PC is evolved as much as Macintosh has. They both have evolved more close each other and both of those cant be called in clear way a PC or Macintosh. They are on these days only a brands what should not be mistaken to personal computers. MS and Intel got own nickname 90's, it was Wintel. MS got monopoly on personal computers what included Intel's processor. MS did not have monopoly on personal computers or PC's. Only on exact share of markets and mostly on those days all had only the Intel processors on sold. You can read the US vs Microsoft official documents to find out that even they understand to separate PC and personal computer to two different things. Just like Operating System and software system, software platform and internet-browser.
Fact is that MS has over 95% marketshare on PC's but when counting all personal computers, it drops about 90%. PC is almost same as Windows. Even that there exist those other OS's (Linux, Hurd, BSD).
It is just stupid to think that Apple hits only the MS or PC. It hits against the wide range of different PC's what brings lots of problems of usability. Some hardware have problems to each other etc. And Apple builds only Mac-computers what just works out. All can design their software exactly to same hardware without glitches.
#62
tebaker28
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Posted 20 April 2009 - 10:49 AM
XMattingly wrote: Tebaker28, I owe you an apology. I thought you might be trolling, but this guy definitely is.
I don't think you owe me an apology. I'm a new reader and commenter to Macworld. I can see how I might seem to be a troller with as few posts under my belt as I have. I have to admit I did start things off a little b*tchy. I've calmed down since then.
Mr "Untitled", somehow, missed the fact that in none of my posts did I ever show a preference to any OS, apps or hardware.
I don't know where he's coming from with the "tebaker28, you embarrass me and you embarrass yourself. quit being such a douchebag," comment.
Thank you, XMattingly.
I don't think you owe me an apology. I'm a new reader and commenter to Macworld. I can see how I might seem to be a troller with as few posts under my belt as I have. I have to admit I did start things off a little b*tchy. I've calmed down since then.
Mr "Untitled", somehow, missed the fact that in none of my posts did I ever show a preference to any OS, apps or hardware.
I don't know where he's coming from with the "tebaker28, you embarrass me and you embarrass yourself. quit being such a douchebag," comment.
Thank you, XMattingly.
#63
Ziggler
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Posted 20 April 2009 - 08:59 PM
Just build yourself an AMD-powered PC for $250 to $300 and load Ubuntu Linux on it. The best OS in my opinion. It is easy to set up, includes most drivers you need and is about the most stable thing out there right now. Apple's are just glorified Unix boxes now anyway.
#64
mdawson
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Posted 21 April 2009 - 04:41 AM
Your suggestion works for an extreme minority.
First of all, any PC built for $250 to $300 is not going to be made up of quality parts. You can argue this point as much as you wish, but the major OEMs cannot do this at that price point and neither can anyone else.
Second, Linux is not a mainstream operating system by any stretch of the imagination. It is far from even remotely being a good choice for the vast majority of computer users that are, lo and behold, not techies. Linux is fine for system administrators and power users, but realistically, why bother with a UNIX lite that was designed to run on lesser PCs when you can get a full version of the real deal? And, you have the ability to run mainstream software on the same system. A substantial number PowerBooks began appearing at *NIX conferences, the longtime bastion of the most staunch anti-Mac zealots, the year after OS X was introduced for that very reason.
Lastly, Macs are anything but glorified UNIX boxes. A Mac is a mainstream computing system that can run the most popular applications (e.g., Microsoft Office, Adobe products, etc.) that also provides a real UNIX core for the power user/*NIX admin. OS X offers what Linux does not, never has and may not ever, at least notin the foreseeable future, offer to a wide range of computer users.
First of all, any PC built for $250 to $300 is not going to be made up of quality parts. You can argue this point as much as you wish, but the major OEMs cannot do this at that price point and neither can anyone else.
Second, Linux is not a mainstream operating system by any stretch of the imagination. It is far from even remotely being a good choice for the vast majority of computer users that are, lo and behold, not techies. Linux is fine for system administrators and power users, but realistically, why bother with a UNIX lite that was designed to run on lesser PCs when you can get a full version of the real deal? And, you have the ability to run mainstream software on the same system. A substantial number PowerBooks began appearing at *NIX conferences, the longtime bastion of the most staunch anti-Mac zealots, the year after OS X was introduced for that very reason.
Lastly, Macs are anything but glorified UNIX boxes. A Mac is a mainstream computing system that can run the most popular applications (e.g., Microsoft Office, Adobe products, etc.) that also provides a real UNIX core for the power user/*NIX admin. OS X offers what Linux does not, never has and may not ever, at least notin the foreseeable future, offer to a wide range of computer users.
#65
lidra
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Posted 21 April 2009 - 08:10 PM
"Millions of people have switched to Mac because they love the security, stability and...".
Security ?????AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA Good joke, very good joke. Since Apple chose the target as PC instead of M$, I will say that a PC can have way more secure software on it then Apple ever build. Security ...aaaaaaaaaahhahahaha.
Security ?????AAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHA Good joke, very good joke. Since Apple chose the target as PC instead of M$, I will say that a PC can have way more secure software on it then Apple ever build. Security ...aaaaaaaaaahhahahaha.
