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jman3001 said:

It's funny that when people do something that's good for the consumer that they are selfish, but when Apple has been overcharging for everything they sell for the last 20 years, they are to be admired. The experience on a good PC running OS X is the same experience as on a Mac. The OS makes the Mac experience, not the computer or the design. The design of the Mac is something to attract the novice that doesn't understand computing, and Apple has been very successful selling overpriced "boutique" Computers, iPods, and iPhones. Sometimes, the consumer gets smart and figures out how to have a the same experience with a better deal, and then the loyalists get upset, because they had to pay twice as much for the same experience.

It's funny that when people do something that's good for the consumer that they are selfish, but when the Music Labels have been overcharging for all the music tracks for the last 60 years, they are to be admired. The experience of pirated music track is the same experience then a legitimate track from iTunes or Amazon. The artist makes the experience, not the store front. The design of iTunes is attractive for the novice that doesn't understand that you can get all your music for free, and the music labels have been successful selling overpriced CD that contain more tracks than what I would like. Some time the consumer gets smart and figures out why pay for music at all, if you can download it for free and end up with the same experience with a better deal, and the iTunes loyalist get upset, because they had to pay for their the same musical experience.

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The loyalists also need to realize that no law has been broken until the Courts rule. So, those that come on websites and spew garbage about the laws they don't clearly understand to begin with, are just blowhards trying to give verdicts before they are even written. The EULA is far from air tight, so lighten up, until the Courts actually decide what is fair and what is not fair. Apple will basically have to rewrite their licensing agreements and make a plan for how they want to market their OS in the future. Many still say Apple should sell OS X outright and let people do what they want with it. Apple doesn't have to support the OS, if someone wants to install it on a PC. If Macs are so superior in design and performance, then Macs will still sell and make a lot of money for Apple. In the meantime, Apple will become more popular in the business sector, which is the market they are going after anyway. Apple has nothing to lose and everything to gain by selling their OS as a stand alone product.

So in any case, you would rape your wife in Afghanistan because it is not against the law?
This is what I don't understand. In your point of view something that has not been ruled in to law, even thou it is reprehensible is quite O.K. You can rationalize your stance all you want, but at the end Psystar was out to cash in on Apple's brand. Taking advantage of free advertising, hefty R & D discounts and Apples reputation, that whether you believe it or not, is pretty much untarnished, and in your twisted mind, Apple should simply allow it?

Well, not even like that could these Bozos pull it off. I think that someone pulled the plug on them, because they thought it was a lost cause, and this was only going to cost them even more money. The thing is that I don't think Psystar is completely off the hook.

One thing is if you build or hack your own PC and use it as a Mac. Apple has not indicated that it will attempt to prevent that. You are kind of free to do as you like in this regard. But another thing is attempting to cash in on Apple's business blatantly with out even licensing the OS.

This discussion is over in any case. Psystar lost, Apple won. Next month we will see who was really pulling the strings behind the curtain. jman3001 you bet on the wrong horse.

[jman3001]

> jman3001 you bet on the wrong horse.
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My horse is running fine and I've saved thousands of dollars on stocking my studio with PCs instead of overpriced Macs. The only reason I still use OS X is because I've invested a boat load of money on OS X only software. So Apple fans can be as mad at me as they like; I'm still going to make the most out of my purchased software. After I repay myself, I'll consider Windows 7. Who knows, maybe Microsoft will get it right one of these times and maybe Snow Leopard will be crap. You never know.
Next point: Is it hard to repair a PC? Answer: NO. Tons of options with replaceable and upgradable parts readily available.
Is it hard to repair a Mac? Answer: Yes. Once you're out of one year, If you lose a logic board, your RAM board goes bad, or your power supply fails, figure on buying another overpriced Mac, because you will never be able to afford the repair. Good luck with the Genius Bar as well, they're about as smart as the Apple Fan boys that spew bad advice to all that will believe it on these web pages..

Comparing rape in Afghanistan to someone selling a PC after paying Apple for their software license only shows how distorted the views on this website have become. Of course, these things are not even romotely comparable.

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Funny, I just had to replace a Power Supply on a G4 Mirror door. Got it for $80.00 replace it my self. I have also replaced or added HD, RAM, PCI cards, you name it on a bunch of deferent Mac hardware dating back to 1994. All the Macs that I have had, have lasted me for more then 5 years. Any computer that you use for more than 5 years had better paid for it self and turned a profit, it not you are in the wrong business.

So please, don't make it sound like Macs are crap. What, you had a bad G5 and the sky is falling. The thing is that the two G5 that I have are still running strong. Heck, I got two G4 from 1999 that are still running just fine.

Report after report contradicts your anecdotal experience yet, they support my experience and that of a lot of people on these boards.

[XMattingly]

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{size:10px} jman3001 wrote: My horse is running fine and I've saved thousands of dollars on stocking my studio with PCs instead of overpriced Macs. The only reason I still use OS X is because I've invested a boat load of money on OS X only software. So Apple fans can be as mad at me as they like; I'm still going to make the most out of my purchased software.{size}

Well, part of the horse, anyway. "Overpriced" is entirely your conjecture -- Total Cost of Ownership is the real dollar figure, and it's been proven time and again that the full value you get from a Mac is as good or greater than a PC over the course of its life. Especially when you take into account their higher resale value.

If you really want to get away from OS X, most major software developers will offer what is called a "crossgrade", which is generally about the same price as a regular upgrade for a single platform...just FYI. You could probably use one less thing to complain about.

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{size:10px}Maybe Snow Leopard will be crap. You never know.{size}

Since I follow PC news, I happen to know that 10.6 will be an awesome performance boost, and you're out of your tree. Facts always trump speculation. As it turns out, Windows 7 is supposed to be a vast improvement over Vista, and early reports of Snow Leopard say that it's remarkably faster than 10.5.

http://www.testmac.n...eopard-preview/

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{size:10px}Next point: Is it hard to repair a PC? Answer: NO. Tons of options with replaceable and upgradable parts readily available.
Is it hard to repair a Mac? Answer: Yes.{size}

The biggest point you missed is, "rate of repair". As it goes with automobiles: a lot of old beaters may be easier to work on, but they still ritually fall apart and burn oil.

I'm on my fourth Mac in almost 15 years - as well as having used nearly a dozen Macs at a number of jobs over the span of my career. I can say with absolute certainty that if you don't have a hardware problem within the first six months or so of your new Mac, your chances of having one in the future are practically nil. And if you do, it's typically something relatively simple like bad RAM, hard drive or a dead VRAM battery. I've never had a hardware issue with one of my home office Macs. Ever.

[jman3001]

There are a lot of reports at Macintouch, Macfixit, and AccelerateYourMac that contradict the idea that Macs just run forever. There are a serious number of owners with the G5 leaking CPU coolant issues. There were tons of early G5 users that experienced the "chirping" sound that came from the cheap PSU that was installed in the Mac G5. Of course, replacing the unit yourself voids your warranty and isn't a novice repair. In my case, and I've seen several others, the RAM slots on the G5 Logic Board deteriorated and caused the machine to not start. When mine was checked out, it meant replacing the Logic Board and that was not cost effective.

Congrats to anyone that has a Mac that runs for 10 years. Apple warranties Macs for one year. After 5 years you have earned some money back from your investment. But since you will figure on replacing computers in a business every five years, you don't need to pay for a Mac for your business to have a decent computer to run OS X on. Building an inexpensive PC or buying a clone will save you literally 1000s of dollars for your business investment. If your installing 10 to 20 computers at your business the money saved will be substantial.

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jman3001 said:

There are a lot of reports at Macintouch, Macfixit, and AccelerateYourMac that contradict the idea that Macs just run forever. There are a serious number of owners with the G5 leaking CPU coolant issues. There were tons of early G5 users that experienced the "chirping" sound that came from the cheap PSU that was installed in the Mac G5. Of course, replacing the unit yourself voids your warranty and isn't a novice repair. In my case, and I've seen several others, the RAM slots on the G5 Logic Board deteriorated and caused the machine to not start. When mine was checked out, it meant replacing the Logic Board and that was not cost effective.

Congrats to anyone that has a Mac that runs for 10 years. Apple warranties Macs for one year. After 5 years you have earned some money back from your investment. But since you will figure on replacing computers in a business every five years, you don't need to pay for a Mac for your business to have a decent computer to run OS X on. Building an inexpensive PC or buying a clone will save you literally 1000s of dollars for your business investment. If your installing 10 to 20 computers at your business the money saved will be substantial.

Well thank you very much, I have three Mac here in the office that are older then 10 years. I am typing this on a 4 year old G5. The other two G4 are 7 and 8 years old.

What are you saying about "After 5 years you have earned some money back from your investment". Try one month. My current Mac Pro payed for it self within one month so you are either not charging your clients very well, or they are taking advantage of you. 5 years to pay for a $2600 dollar investment? That is $44.00 dollars a month. I hope you take home more than $44.00 dollars a month!

[graxspoo]

> The experience of pirated music track is the same experience then a legitimate track from iTunes or Amazon.
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Your analogy doesn't hold. The Mac situation is more like, if there was a music company that would only allow you to listen to the music they publish on the CD player they build. The fine print on the back of the CDs claim that the CDs are only an "upgrade" to the player, and if you try to play the CDs on a player built by a different company, you are violating the terms of the purchase agreement.



I say, the install OS X install disks are for sale. If I buy them, what business of Apple's is it what I do with them in the privacy of my own home? Is Steve Jobs going to come peak in my windows to see if I'm treating the disks nicely? Can I use the disks to prop up a wobbly table once I have no more use for them? What about printing out the binary for OS X and using it as wallpaper, is that OK?

This is obviously ridiculous. What Apple is proposing is unenforceable and ludicrous. I realize they enjoy not having competition in the hardware space, and that its currently working for them, but is it really so great for me? What if I want a mini-tower? Oh, they don't sell those. Competition is good for consumers. The guys at Apple are smart, and ya know what, I think they're up to the challenge.

[jman3001]

{quote}That is $44.00 dollars a month. I hope you take home more than $44.00 dollars a month!{quote}

If all I had to pay for were a stock computer, then I would be in heaven. I think you need to take a few business courses to understand the cost of running a business. I'm using several computers every day and the software on them is an ongoing expense.

As far as a quality machine for a reasonable price, here's another one.

{quote}Many gamers have been waiting for the update of the "Nehalem" Core i7, which was introduced last November. Intel's update Tuesday includes the newly minted i7-975 (8M L3 cache, 4 cores, 8 threads, 3.33GHz, 6.4 GT/s QPI). This is priced at $999.

For the uninitiated, threads effectively double the number of tasks a processor can do, GT/s stands for giga transfers per second, and QPI is Intel's new Quick Path Interconnect technology.

But there's more. The i7-950 boasts identical specifications except for a lower 3.06GHz clock speed and 4.8 GT/s. It is priced at $562.

Hewlett-Packard's m9600T tower can be configured with the i7-975 and a 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 250 graphics card for just over $1,900.{quote}

This is the kind of price point that Apple is competing with. Even Psystar will offer the i7Core to consumers at a reasonable price. My guess is these machines will last more than 5 years as well.

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jman3001 said:

{quote}That is $44.00 dollars a month. I hope you take home more than $44.00 dollars a month!{quote}

If all I had to pay for were a stock computer, then I would be in heaven. I think you need to take a few business courses to understand the cost of running a business. I'm using several computers every day and the software on them is an ongoing expense.

As far as a quality machine for a reasonable price, here's another one.

{quote}Many gamers have been waiting for the update of the "Nehalem" Core i7, which was introduced last November. Intel's update Tuesday includes the newly minted i7-975 (8M L3 cache, 4 cores, 8 threads, 3.33GHz, 6.4 GT/s QPI). This is priced at $999.

For the uninitiated, threads effectively double the number of tasks a processor can do, GT/s stands for giga transfers per second, and QPI is Intel's new Quick Path Interconnect technology.

But there's more. The i7-950 boasts identical specifications except for a lower 3.06GHz clock speed and 4.8 GT/s. It is priced at $562.

Hewlett-Packard's m9600T tower can be configured with the i7-975 and a 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 250 graphics card for just over $1,900.{quote}

This is the kind of price point that Apple is competing with. Even Psystar will offer the i7Core to consumers at a reasonable price. My guess is these machines will last more than 5 years as well.

Sure, your guess.