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Here are my beefs...
First off the idea that I have to find a movie on Tuesday that I'll want to view on Sat is a real annoyance. The download speeds are impossibly slow. I've even resorted to hardwiring the ATV to the hub, but to no avail.
For me the WIFI is a waste of time.
As I don't sit next to my 42" screen, but rather more like 12' away, the little images and text are way too small to appreciate. You'd think that an option of 2 rows vs 3 rows would take Apple about an hour to fix.
Then the whole interface seems very un-Apple friendly. How about a WII pointer that would move a mouse spot across the screen and then I could fly to things I wanted to see....
And lastly, more often than not we rent a movie that we later would like to buy. But at $18 ($14 own + $4 rent) v $14 if I was to buy it up front seems a little unfair. I think it would be nice to be able to rent a movie for $4, then upgrade to rent to a purchase for the same as a first time buy price.
The whole concept of ATV is great, but they have to fix the download issue.
What's wrong with Apple TV
MultiQuote
#30
TexasMac 
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:10 AM
So, the biggest thing against the Apple TV is the menu placement? Do you remember version 1? All of your stuff was right there. No one bought it. Downgrade back to 1.1 and there you go, all your problems solved. I personally have no problem with my apple tv. Select your category, move to the right, hold down for a second, click again. I know more than three gestures can be confusing to some people, but can't you find something else to complain about? Maybe missing codecs and things like that. Just a thought.
#31
macjournals
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 10:14 AM
{quote:title=doglesby wrote:}Too bad the author had at least three pieces to write and crammed them all into one. Not cohesive at all. Especially since the main point (not the one in the title) is fundamentally flawed. The ability to rent HD movies in no way moved iTunes away from managing your own content.
I suppose the downside of losing newspapers is losing editors who make sure stories are cohesive entities that make a lick of sense.{quote}
We're not sure you're reading the same newspapers we are, but we always appreciate being held to a higher standard.
As noted at the end, this was adapted from MDJ 2009.04.07, and the original article was about the then-new release of iTunes 8.1.1. The fact that it had only one specific release note triggered fears of seeing iTunes become more like Apple TV. We considered that a bad thing for the reasons stated: Apple TV's interface is far more about the iTunes Store than it is about the media you already own. Some of the iTunes theme came through pretty clearly in the excerpt, and we apologize if that was confusing, but we felt the point about making your voice heard was too important to remove in the name of thematical purity.
Others make good points about using Apple TV like an iPod for the television, but as they've all noted, that involves converting DVD (or Blu-Ray) discs to a format that Apple TV can play and copying them to a hard drive that may be too small. That opens a can of copyright worms that we did not have space to address, so it was not included. Broadly speaking, our opinion is that until buying or renting a movie from iTunes gives you everything on the physical disc (including menus, extras, and easter eggs), it's a poor second choice for people with fast broadband and no easy way to deal with Netflix or local video stores. When selling music, Apple never asked customers to do without any of the tracks, and later even added the album art. In selling movies, Apple's offering a no-frills product at the same price (if not higher) than the first-class product, and people naturally find that problematic.
But that's not a problem with Apple TV, and we didn't want to muddle the article even further. :-)
I suppose the downside of losing newspapers is losing editors who make sure stories are cohesive entities that make a lick of sense.{quote}
We're not sure you're reading the same newspapers we are, but we always appreciate being held to a higher standard.
As noted at the end, this was adapted from MDJ 2009.04.07, and the original article was about the then-new release of iTunes 8.1.1. The fact that it had only one specific release note triggered fears of seeing iTunes become more like Apple TV. We considered that a bad thing for the reasons stated: Apple TV's interface is far more about the iTunes Store than it is about the media you already own. Some of the iTunes theme came through pretty clearly in the excerpt, and we apologize if that was confusing, but we felt the point about making your voice heard was too important to remove in the name of thematical purity.
Others make good points about using Apple TV like an iPod for the television, but as they've all noted, that involves converting DVD (or Blu-Ray) discs to a format that Apple TV can play and copying them to a hard drive that may be too small. That opens a can of copyright worms that we did not have space to address, so it was not included. Broadly speaking, our opinion is that until buying or renting a movie from iTunes gives you everything on the physical disc (including menus, extras, and easter eggs), it's a poor second choice for people with fast broadband and no easy way to deal with Netflix or local video stores. When selling music, Apple never asked customers to do without any of the tracks, and later even added the album art. In selling movies, Apple's offering a no-frills product at the same price (if not higher) than the first-class product, and people naturally find that problematic.
But that's not a problem with Apple TV, and we didn't want to muddle the article even further. :-)
#32
trip1ex
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:39 AM
Content pricing and availability sucks. Cable or Satellite TV is a better deal for a family of 4. Redbox movie rentals are $1/night. Netflix is $15/month for 2 out at a time. ATV is missing Live sports and other TV content.
Then you need an ATV for every TV. You also need to back up your digital content too less a hard drive failure erases it all.
The remote sucks. IT's ok if you have a bit of content, but if you have a long list of video then forget it. You need a more robust navigation device.
Next up I think folks are insulted when they are asked to buy an iPod or iPhone and then buy an ATV.
And why does Apple make it so expensive to hook up an iPod or iPhone to a TV? The prices they charge just drive 95% of their market not to buy a dock or a video cable. Get those things into the hands of iPod owners. They'll buy more content and when they buy their next mp3/video/etc device they'll have all the more reason to stick with Apple between the content they own, iTunes and the cable/dock setup.
And why doesn't ATV easily work with iMovie?
Then you need an ATV for every TV. You also need to back up your digital content too less a hard drive failure erases it all.
The remote sucks. IT's ok if you have a bit of content, but if you have a long list of video then forget it. You need a more robust navigation device.
Next up I think folks are insulted when they are asked to buy an iPod or iPhone and then buy an ATV.
And why does Apple make it so expensive to hook up an iPod or iPhone to a TV? The prices they charge just drive 95% of their market not to buy a dock or a video cable. Get those things into the hands of iPod owners. They'll buy more content and when they buy their next mp3/video/etc device they'll have all the more reason to stick with Apple between the content they own, iTunes and the cable/dock setup.
And why doesn't ATV easily work with iMovie?
#33
hillstones
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:44 AM
jltnol said:
What's wrong?
HD movies are so compressed as to almost not be HD.
Why pay $4.00 to RENT an inferior copy of a flick that I can get in real HD for free from Netflix? (ok.. so not "free" but cheaper than $4.00)
HD movies are so compressed as to almost not be HD.
Why pay $4.00 to RENT an inferior copy of a flick that I can get in real HD for free from Netflix? (ok.. so not "free" but cheaper than $4.00)
That's funny. HD Movies from NetFlix are compressed just like iTunes and Amazon On Demand.
#34
rmeister0
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 11:53 AM
Content is the issue.
One of the things that make digital music players take off is that you could leverage your existing investment in CDs, or even LPs and cassettes if you had some time and put in the effort. Nobody started with a blank iPod and then went hunting for stuff to buy for it.
The Apple TV is a walled garden, and that will doom the product in the end. Sure, you can use [] and [] to rip and convert your DVDs, but it is too much work for a sizeable collection and the DMCA has made it patently illegal in the United States on discs where CSS has been employed. As far as buying from the iTunes store is concerned all the issues with DRM we used to have in the music store are still there.
Between NetFlix and RedBox I don't really need to rent on the Apple TV anymore. With DVDs being as cheap as they are, I'm not spending $10 to buy a download I can only play on Apple's devices when I can usually get a DVD at nearly the same price and play it on all sorts of devices.
What the Apple TV really needs is something like the NetFlix streaming service, or a monthly all-you-can-eat subscription service.
One of the things that make digital music players take off is that you could leverage your existing investment in CDs, or even LPs and cassettes if you had some time and put in the effort. Nobody started with a blank iPod and then went hunting for stuff to buy for it.
The Apple TV is a walled garden, and that will doom the product in the end. Sure, you can use [] and [] to rip and convert your DVDs, but it is too much work for a sizeable collection and the DMCA has made it patently illegal in the United States on discs where CSS has been employed. As far as buying from the iTunes store is concerned all the issues with DRM we used to have in the music store are still there.
Between NetFlix and RedBox I don't really need to rent on the Apple TV anymore. With DVDs being as cheap as they are, I'm not spending $10 to buy a download I can only play on Apple's devices when I can usually get a DVD at nearly the same price and play it on all sorts of devices.
What the Apple TV really needs is something like the NetFlix streaming service, or a monthly all-you-can-eat subscription service.
#36
billthecat
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:17 PM
It seems a bit unfair to complain that it doesn't do something that no one else does. For example, the idea that you should get a credit for the rental if you end up buying. Does anyone else do that?
Here's how I see it could be enhanced:
1. More content. iTunes simply needs more movies, more TV shows, more, more, more. But this is surely under the control of the media providers.
2. Rent TV. You should be able to rent TV, like for 50 cents, or 99 cents or whatever. But this is surely under the control of the media providers.
3. More codecs. You should be able to play your own content which is probably not mp4. It should be able to handle AVI containers, and all the main codecs. This is my number one complaint. Solving this solves no. 1 and 2. ;) I realize I can hack the ATV and put other codecs on there, and I did that before, but I found playback unreliable. Often, the video wouldn't appear right (wrong dimensions) or the audio wouldn't sound right (no audio, only stereo when the stream contained 5.1, etc.). Plus, it messed up my favorites (couldn't add or remove after hacking). Plus, there are some things that it can't play even if it has the codecs, like 720p/24+ or higher.
4. Beefier hardware, to be able to play anything. Sure, I'm familiar with the limitations inherent to the size of the TV vs. resolution vs. seating distance, but it doesn't change the fact that much of the content I throw at it may be beyond its current capabilities - it should be able to play it.
5. Streaming capability for live events. Sports (yawn), live news (e.g., inauguration, disasters), etc.
I don't need DVR capability. I don't need radio.
I'm tempted to get a mini to solve some of this, but it seems like such overkill.
Here's how I see it could be enhanced:
1. More content. iTunes simply needs more movies, more TV shows, more, more, more. But this is surely under the control of the media providers.
2. Rent TV. You should be able to rent TV, like for 50 cents, or 99 cents or whatever. But this is surely under the control of the media providers.
3. More codecs. You should be able to play your own content which is probably not mp4. It should be able to handle AVI containers, and all the main codecs. This is my number one complaint. Solving this solves no. 1 and 2. ;) I realize I can hack the ATV and put other codecs on there, and I did that before, but I found playback unreliable. Often, the video wouldn't appear right (wrong dimensions) or the audio wouldn't sound right (no audio, only stereo when the stream contained 5.1, etc.). Plus, it messed up my favorites (couldn't add or remove after hacking). Plus, there are some things that it can't play even if it has the codecs, like 720p/24+ or higher.
4. Beefier hardware, to be able to play anything. Sure, I'm familiar with the limitations inherent to the size of the TV vs. resolution vs. seating distance, but it doesn't change the fact that much of the content I throw at it may be beyond its current capabilities - it should be able to play it.
5. Streaming capability for live events. Sports (yawn), live news (e.g., inauguration, disasters), etc.
I don't need DVR capability. I don't need radio.
I'm tempted to get a mini to solve some of this, but it seems like such overkill.
#37
jsneveu
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:32 PM
Absolutely. At last someone who gets it.
I plugged a Mac Mini in my living room to my amplifier, my HD TV, my external HD, my wireless network. I ripped all my CDs best quality. Then I stashed the CD, got rid of my DVD player. Now I can:
# rip newly bought CDs in my living room the minute I come home from the store (why should I do that on my laptop. Mini is my entertainment center.
# I can view DVD in the living room with Mini
# I can surf the net from my couch
# I can view my aperture collection (including through FrontRow)
# I can play my iTunes libraries
# I can opt between the standard desktop or FrontRow
# I can sync my iPod in my living room
Granted, Apple TV can do 3 - 6, but try doing 1 and 2 with Apple TV. Two essential functions.
Apple TV? Why so much fuss for an irrelevant appliance...
I plugged a Mac Mini in my living room to my amplifier, my HD TV, my external HD, my wireless network. I ripped all my CDs best quality. Then I stashed the CD, got rid of my DVD player. Now I can:
# rip newly bought CDs in my living room the minute I come home from the store (why should I do that on my laptop. Mini is my entertainment center.
# I can view DVD in the living room with Mini
# I can surf the net from my couch
# I can view my aperture collection (including through FrontRow)
# I can play my iTunes libraries
# I can opt between the standard desktop or FrontRow
# I can sync my iPod in my living room
Granted, Apple TV can do 3 - 6, but try doing 1 and 2 with Apple TV. Two essential functions.
Apple TV? Why so much fuss for an irrelevant appliance...
#38
tallscot
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:49 PM
[quote name='hillstones']
>
He said "so compressed", meaning he thinks Apple's movies are more compressed, and thus less quality, than Netflix.
Last I checked, neither of them offered the new releases in HD. That's another reason to rent Blu-ray, which has the best quality, for $1.99 at Blockbuster.
>
jltnol said:
> What's wrong?
>
> HD movies are so compressed as to almost not be HD.
>
> Why pay $4.00 to RENT an inferior copy of a flick that I can get in real HD for free from Netflix? (ok.. so not "free" but cheaper than $4.00)
That's funny. HD Movies from NetFlix are compressed just like iTunes and Amazon On Demand.
>
> HD movies are so compressed as to almost not be HD.
>
> Why pay $4.00 to RENT an inferior copy of a flick that I can get in real HD for free from Netflix? (ok.. so not "free" but cheaper than $4.00)
That's funny. HD Movies from NetFlix are compressed just like iTunes and Amazon On Demand.
He said "so compressed", meaning he thinks Apple's movies are more compressed, and thus less quality, than Netflix.
Last I checked, neither of them offered the new releases in HD. That's another reason to rent Blu-ray, which has the best quality, for $1.99 at Blockbuster.
#39
graxspoo
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 01:11 PM
First what's good: Being able to rent movies.
What could be better: Basically, I want AppleTV to be Boxee. I want Hulu, and I want internet streaming of all that public content. Paying $2 for a TV show is crazy.
Also, I basically can't use the "iTunes" part of AppleTV. I have many thousands of songs in my iTunes library, and it brings the AppleTV to its knees. I can navigate and play the library just fine though Boxee, so this is not a hardware limitation: its just they haven't optimized it for large libraries. Really a shame, since this is the main thing I bought it for.
One more: Its really cool in Boxee how you can just set up networked drives to go find movies, pictures and other media. I don't like having to sync everything through iTunes, because its just one more step. For example, with Boxee, I can handbreak a DVD (one that I own the copyright to, of course) and it immediately shows up in Boxee, no syncing, or importing or adding to iTunes required.
For anyone that owns an AppleTV, I highly recommend giving Boxee a shot. You need a USB stick drive to install the software, but its pretty easy to get working and incredibly cool.
So, in summary: I basically use my AppleTV to run Boxee, except for when I want to watch a "new release movie" at which point I exit out, and watch it, then boot back into Boxee.
What could be better: Basically, I want AppleTV to be Boxee. I want Hulu, and I want internet streaming of all that public content. Paying $2 for a TV show is crazy.
Also, I basically can't use the "iTunes" part of AppleTV. I have many thousands of songs in my iTunes library, and it brings the AppleTV to its knees. I can navigate and play the library just fine though Boxee, so this is not a hardware limitation: its just they haven't optimized it for large libraries. Really a shame, since this is the main thing I bought it for.
One more: Its really cool in Boxee how you can just set up networked drives to go find movies, pictures and other media. I don't like having to sync everything through iTunes, because its just one more step. For example, with Boxee, I can handbreak a DVD (one that I own the copyright to, of course) and it immediately shows up in Boxee, no syncing, or importing or adding to iTunes required.
For anyone that owns an AppleTV, I highly recommend giving Boxee a shot. You need a USB stick drive to install the software, but its pretty easy to get working and incredibly cool.
So, in summary: I basically use my AppleTV to run Boxee, except for when I want to watch a "new release movie" at which point I exit out, and watch it, then boot back into Boxee.
#40
clh126
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Posted 01 June 2009 - 01:35 PM
By biggest complaints are not with appleTV....it's with the cable industry for providing horrible, clunky DVR's/cable boxes with messy wires up the a and crappy interfaces, the movie/TV industry for clinging to an outdated & clumsy business model and lastly the TV manufacturers for making their interfaces almost an afterthought.
Dealing with my TV navigation to appletv, cable cable navigation using 4 remotes reminds me of trying to print on Windows 3.1. It's just a pain.
Please Apple build a line of TV's that has an ATV in it and a beautiful interface with minimal cables! Please!
Once I'm on ATV, I love to browse new releases, watch trailers, and rent. I like having my photos playing with music behind....I actually look more at my photos on ATV than I ever did before. I like having the music playing while making dinner.
Hate uTube interface and unusable picture quality though.
Music, Photos and Movies all in one is great!
Best,
Chris
Dealing with my TV navigation to appletv, cable cable navigation using 4 remotes reminds me of trying to print on Windows 3.1. It's just a pain.
Please Apple build a line of TV's that has an ATV in it and a beautiful interface with minimal cables! Please!
Once I'm on ATV, I love to browse new releases, watch trailers, and rent. I like having my photos playing with music behind....I actually look more at my photos on ATV than I ever did before. I like having the music playing while making dinner.
Hate uTube interface and unusable picture quality though.
Music, Photos and Movies all in one is great!
Best,
Chris
