[Tripp]

I can tell you that the esata raid I set up with a seriously cheep express card operates at 120+MB/second, and that the firewire seems to max out at about 80MB/sec.

[cycomachead]

Tripp said:

I can tell you that the esata raid I set up with a seriously cheep express card operates at 120+MB/second, and that the firewire seems to max out at about 80MB/sec.

wow, quite a difference! I can tell you I'm in the camp that's never used the expresscard but I can see why it can be a problem for many people. I think apple should have probably kept it, but I see no way the would have kept it and made the laptops cheaper.

Do you know that the $1499 13" and the $1699 15" are the same exact computer? Apple is clearly using the same parts to keep costs down, and that is beneficial to everyone. I recommend any who gets a new MBP go to B&H and get a really fast SD card while there's a rebate on all the sandisk stuff and use it for quick backups. It may suck, but you'll find use for a fast SD reader if you upgrade. You do also get a bigger battery in the 15"

That said: I still don't think losing good functionality is a good thing! I'm against lots of Apple's decisions, and the majority of me says boo on this one. (Like the keyboards, no extension cables, Mighty Mouses with shorter cables, are all minor ones, and other things.)

[crackedbeak]

Only Apple would remove capability and call it a feature.

[heisetax]

Where did you hear that USB CF card readers are fast? The fast ones are FW800. The slower ones are FW400. The supper slow speed models are USB. My son has shown other photographers how many times faster FW800 is than USB.

[heisetax]

Technology did the floppy in. Even though many thought that Steve Jobs got rid of the floppy on the too soon. I do not agree. I stopped using floppies at least 2 years before the inroduction of the iMac. The problem with the all-in-one iMac was that one had to attach an external drive of some sort to it to make any externally stored file. It needed some sort of internal drive to keep its all-in-one setup all-in-one.

M son has a high end Cannon DSLR camera that has both CF &SD card slots. Like most photographers he prefers the larger, more durable CF card to the slower much more flimsy SD card. They may have both slots, but the SD card is only used in emergencies or as a minor supplement.

Optical drives are one of those things that will continue on for many years for many people. Their capacity is big enough for many. Their durability is good enough for thouse that don't play cd frisbee with them. For some people large capacity hard drives provide cheaper storage than does the CD or DVD. For others the need is not there. Many people do not want to download their movies from an online source. They want the ownership (for what that means of having a CD or DVD. Music CDs are easy to change to an electronic storage. That has to be ones computer for many now as Apple conceled the production of the 240 GB iPod before it was ever produced. I have a couple hundred GB os music, but my movie collection is already into the multiple TB range. Much of this can be stored on DVDs.

At the present time I do not need to use a DVD drive to do most system updates. That can be handled with my Intel Mac Pro then cloned to the PPC PowerBook or Intel MacBook Pro's hard drive. In fact when I purchase a 17" model later this year I may remove the DVD drive & put a second 500 GB hard drive in it. There should be some extra room there & a SD card reader could be added.

Computers are just like radios. Some people can get by with a simple crystal set with a simple headphone while others need the latest tech with a surround sound system. Steve Jobs has a history of getting rid of an older technology before it should be gotten rid of. Things like the internal modem may not have been used by many for their internet connection, but was still used by many for their fax send/receive use.

When, with Steve Jobs in control, we know that Apple will never be changing too late. With history as our record, he picks too early more often than most will admit.

[cycomachead]

I don't think he meant they were faster than FW readers - they're not. However, I've heard the USB hoodman reader is actually faster than their FW800 model. But the Lexar FW800 is still much faster. I currently use a SanDisk FW800 and it's plenty fast for my needs especially since having a new iMac I'm using 800 instead of 400 on my MB.

[mdntcallr]

i think the removal of the expresscard slot is all about cost savings for apple, i need the expresscard slot for my verizon datacard. and i feel the USB solution is prone for problems.

Also to the guy who suggested SD cards are a prelude to removal of optical drives. thats just lame. I want apple to finally support Blu-Ray. when was Apple supposed to be a company censoring which new tech their users can use? its just anti-consumer

[mdawson]

I have to agree with this point. Removing FireWire from systems that have had it was boneheaded as is this. With ExpressCard slots users can add card readers if they have a need for such a thing as well as anything else that a MacBook Pro does not offer by default; which is not much in terms of external ports. Replacing a multi-purpose expansion slot with a single purpose device is not a smart move by any stretch of the imagination.

Personally, I would never have a laptop for a primary system, but the 13-inch is looking good for a secondary Mac for when I do site visits, as I would only need to to check e-mail, keep up with you guys, submit contract hours, etc. To that end, the lack of ExpressCard would not impact me?I am a desktop power user?, but a pro-level laptop is supposed to have expansion options.

[jimmylittle]

i have to say, I actually agree with whoever said SD is the way things are going. I love BluRay. I have 2 players. One is an LG, the other is a PS3. The PS3 plays games more than anything, and the LG streams Netflix more than it plays BluRay.

Even at 8x-16x, Optical Disk readers are ssslllooooowwwww. Even a slow USB SD reader is 3-4 times faster than optical. Internal and FW800 readers are 10 times faster. Then, there's the cost. Looking at todays Best Buy sale paper, I can walk in and get a 16GB SD card for 39.99. Or, I can get a 2 pack of blank Blu-Rays for $49.99. That's 10 dollars more for less storage that I can only use once. I know prices will come down as BluRay burners get more prevalent, but they won't get more prevalent. Optical discs are comparably bulky, fragile, slow, and expensive when compared to flash memory. Not worth it.

Getting back on track, the SD card slot was a good choice for 99% of folks, probably. (I totally made that number up, but you know what I'm saying...) It does suck that a small percentage of users now have to change their workflow to match the new equipment, but that's life. The march of progress has taken us from tape reels to 5-1/4" floppy to 3-1/2" floppy, to CD, to DVD, hard drives, and flash memory. Each time, it gets more capacity, faster speeds, and more reliable data storage.

Everyone thought Apple was crazy when they took out the modem and floppy drives on early iMacs, but now look where we are...

[sigma8]

Have many people mentioned that you can just BUY AN EXPRESSCARD SD READER? I really don't understand why Apple did this. If you never use the ExpressCard slot AND you complain about the lack of a built-in SD card reader, you're a moron. For $20-$40 you have a lot of choices of ExpressCard readers that will slide into your computer with no protruding parts. There are some that will accommodate the SD card itself--also without it protruding at all.

In the wake of all this, i did some lookin, and found this review on overclock3d.net: http://www.tinyurl.com/m9lczg

I would much rather spend $40 on this accessory, and have the option of swapping it out for an eSATA adapter or whatever the future holds...rather than being stuck with an SD-only reader.

edit: went back and read some posts past the first page. I see it's been mentioned. Great! Can't be mentioned enough. Stupid Apple :P

First mandatory glossy screens, now this. Guess the only Pro model left is the 17 inch.

[drgardner]

This comment sums up the issue quite well - It's not clear why Apple felt they had to make this change.

I own a two year old 15" Macbook Pro that I've been looking forward to replacing. It contains both an express card slot and 800/400 Firewire interfaces. I use the express card slot both for an eSata interface to hard drives, and for a 3G verizon wireless card. I can't use an embedded wireless card, since they don't exist yet (unlike several PCs which do offer the feature), and don't really want to use the USB form factor. (One more thing sticking out the side of the machine - the express card far more compact.) I do use USB Cards in my digital camera, but picked up a $19 firewire card reader that handles them quite nicely.

Eliminating the express card slot is a move backwards.

And I'll close by pointing out that my two year old laptop has a matte screen - and I don't much care that "most people" like the glossy, I find the matte screen far superior.

Apple seems intent on simplifying it's product line just a bit too much.

[hillstones]

nelsonh said:

As a photographer soon to be 'in the market' for a laptop, the removal of the express slot is problem to be sure. The SD card is 100% useless to me, and I'd venture to say all pro and advanced amateur photogs, and I needed the express card for CF reader, esata, and other purposes. I also don't need a 17" laptop. So where does that leave me with Apple? Out of luck it seems, and forced to look elsewhere. I just can't see the logic in ADDING a consumer feature and REMOVING a pro feature from a supposedly pro notebook. Dumb.

Why do you continue to use such an outdated format such as CF? All Pro cameras have SD slots and CF slots. All others have SD slots. Your CF card is on the way out. You can use a USB card reader for your CF cards if you insist on hanging on to a dead format. You had to use an adapter to read CF cards, so using a USB reader should be no problem for you. Less than a single digit percentage of customers used an ExpressCard slot, so it was wasted space. I would imagine the same goes for the PC laptops as well. Almost all PC laptops have SD readers built in. Are you still hanging on to floppy disks too? Adding a consumer feature and removing a pro feature? What a load of BS! How do you feel about Dell putting ExpressCard slots (you insist that it designates you as a Pro) on their POS bare-bones laptops? Do you walk around complaining that Dell is ruining your Pro ego because that special Pro-only feature is on their cheap laptop?

[hillstones]

adobephile said:

Apple wouldn't have made these changes without extensive surveys and polls of customers' usage habits.

Phil or someone said that a single-digit percentage of customers used the express card slot, so that makes it a relatively wasted feature. I'm pretty sure the Canon high end cameras have both CF and SD card slots, and I see lots of digital consumer and pro-sumer cameras, all of which have SD cards.

So it's one of those "way of the dodo"-type things like floppy and optical drives gone missing. The yap-yap yammerers may wail and whine, but that dies down quickly, and I have yet to miss those gadgets that Apple had the foresight and courage to simply eliminate.

Very well said. Most of these complainers don't know the statistics on the use of the ExpressCard slot, and just blowing smoke because they think laptops with ExpressCard slots make them look cool. Phil Schiller did confirm that less than a single digit percentage of users actually used the slot. Yes, Canon's high end DSLR have both CF and SD slots, their lower end DSLR's have SD only. CF is the dead format. Since they needed to carry an adapter to read a CF card in an ExpressCard slot, they should have no problem using a USB adapter. I would think a photog with all their equipment would want to reduce the size and weight of their accessories. They can carry far more SD cards than CF cards. The yap-yap whiners also complained about the loss of a PC card slot when they switched to ExpressCard claiming they would never buy another laptop without a PC card slot. Now we hear the same drivel. FireWire 800 handles external storage and a very small percentage carry around cellular cards.

[drgardner]

[quote name='hillstones']
>

nelsonh said:

> As a photographer soon to be 'in the market' for a laptop, the removal of the express slot is problem to be sure. The SD card is 100% useless to me, and I'd venture to say all pro and advanced amateur photogs, and I needed the express card for CF reader, esata, and other purposes. I also don't need a 17" laptop. So where does that leave me with Apple? Out of luck it seems, and forced to look elsewhere. I just can't see the logic in ADDING a consumer feature and REMOVING a pro feature from a supposedly pro notebook. Dumb.

Why do you continue to use such an outdated format such as CF? All Pro cameras have SD slots and CF slots. All others have SD slots. Your CF card is on the way out. You can use a USB card reader for your CF cards if you insist on hanging on to a dead format. You had to use an adapter to read CF cards, so using a USB reader should be no problem for you. Less than a single digit percentage of customers used an ExpressCard slot, so it was wasted space. I would imagine the same goes for the PC laptops as well. Almost all PC laptops have SD readers built in. Are you still hanging on to floppy disks too? Adding a consumer feature and removing a pro feature? What a load of BS! How do you feel about Dell putting ExpressCard slots (you insist that it designates you as a Pro) on their POS bare-bones laptops? Do you walk around complaining that Dell is ruining your Pro ego because that special Pro-only feature is on their cheap laptop?

First, where are you getting your data on the use of CF and SD cards? High-End Nikons (D300, D700, D3, and D3X) all use CF media. Lower-end Nikons (D40, D60, D5000, D80, and D90) use SD media.

Second, why do you feel it's necessary to insult and denigrate others in responding to comments?