[Macworld]

Post your comments for Palm gets friendly with Pre hackers here

[DogHouseDub]

It's all fun and games until someone cripples the entire cell network - intentional or otherwise - while receiving encouragement from Palm...

[drimwit]

Why is having app stores in those international markets surprising? You've been able to buy unlocked iPhones from Apple for some time now.

[sEaMoNkeY]

First, about the app stores for countries without official iphone carriers- the reason that they exist is very simple- just because they don't officially have iPhone doesn't mean they can't have ipod touches. iPod touches are available all over the world- so there's an app store to go with it, it has nothing to do with the hacking crowed.
Second, the Cydia Store (the biggest jailbreak app store) does not compete with the app store in any way. It only sells apps that are not allowed in the app store. So apple isn't losing any money.
Third, YellowSn0w is a software based UNLOCK for the iPhone 3G. Jailbreaking is not the same as unlocking.
Anyway, I think it's great that Palm is reaching out to hackers. If only apple weren't so stubborn. I love my jailbroken iPod Touch, and I hope apple learns to like the jailbreakers. Competition is good.

[heisetax]

At least since the Mac 128 Steve Jobs & thus Apple believes in toal hardware locking to keep the end user from being able to touch the inside. Things as basic as a non-user replacable battery can show this.
I have a 41+ year old factory sealed Norelco rechargable shaver that had a factory only replaceable battery. Just like the Apple equipment all it took was to get the case apart. It was not as easy as Apple has made it.
Soo Apple is not the only one to do this, they are just one that uses their legal team to ensure that more of them stay that way.

[dobrasky]

"Second, the Cydia Store (the biggest jailbreak app store) does not compete with the app store in any way. It only sells apps that are not allowed in the app store. So apple isn't losing any money."
Oh, and how is this not competing with Apple's App Store? Just because something is not for sale there does not mean it does not compete with a like other product. Indeed, Cyndia does compete with Apple's App Store and is selling unsanctioned applications for a phone that has a specific user agreement not to alter the phone in any way, including using unapproved software. What is it with you people who believe you have a legal right to do anything you want with products protected by intellectual property laws. If you don't want to buy into the whole deal then forgo the entire purchase. Theft and illegal tampering with products is does not make something innovative.

[sEaMoNkeY]

You are making no sense. If the Cydia Store only sells apps that the app store does not, cannot, and will not sell, it is NOT competition. Look up competition in a dictionary. You'll understand what it means then. It is, however, pressuring apple to change their policies, and anything that makes apple more open (especially with the iPhone) is good. And seriously, you put way to much emphasis on the agreements. Apple is not being harmed by jailbreak at all. And what's with people like me is that we bought something, and we have the right to use it how we want and change it. The only people who care about those aggrements are apple's lawyers.

[Wondercow]

sEaMoNkeY said:

You are making no sense.

Ahem....
>If the Cydia Store only sells apps that the app store does not, cannot, and will not sell, it is NOT competition.
Dell stores do not, cannot, and will not sell Apple Macs. Therefore Dell is not competition to Apple.

[Terrin]

Apple took the same approach with hackers with the first generation iPhone. It was making money with unlocked iPhones. However, when the iPhone went down to $199. That left Apple with an interesting problem. The iPod Touch is $229. If people could easily buy the iPhone at $199 and unlock it, they could get a fuller featured iPhone at less money then an iPod Touch. Apple would lose big money there. So, I think Apple is playing big brother to 1) prevent that problem, and 2) satisfy it's obligations under it's partnership with AT&T. I doubt Apple makes much money on the App Store. What it does do though is have a unique relationship with developers that it likely wants to keep a reign on as the apps sell the hardware (which is where APple makes the money).
The Pre is the underdog. It wants developers interested. Allowing hackers to hack kindles interest in the platform. Smart. When it becomes a problem, Palm will react.

[Terrin]

What is is with people who are shills for companies who have only their own interests at heart? I myself am a believer in the United States Constitution, which recognizes that the whole purpose of Intellectual Property law is to stimulate creative works by motivating creators to create for the benefit of the public to be able to use those workers for the greater good. The purpose of intellectual property was always intended to be an ends to a means. Namely, let us give creators a little reward in return for creating for the public so the public in turn can take those works and use them for the public good. THe Constitution's framers understood that very little is truly original. People borrow from other ideas to create new ideas. So, it is only fair to balance intellectual property laws with the public's desire to use those works that it sees fit.

Some licenses are simply not enforceable. One such licensee would be one where the manufacturer tells somebody who buys a product what that person can do with the product afterwards. When one buys an iPhone, that person owns the hardware. Apple can tell you what to do with it afterwards, but what it says is not necessarily enforceable under law provided the purchaser is using the product for personal use.

Apple is overstepping it's boundary when it tells people they can't install certain software on a phone the people bought as opposed to leased.


[quote name='dobrasky']
What is it with you people who believe you have a legal right to do anything you want with products protected by intellectual property laws. If you don't want to buy into the whole deal then forgo the entire purchase. Theft and illegal tampering with products is does not make something innovative.

[sEaMoNkeY]

I'm reluctant to even respond to your comment because it is so poorly thought out, but I simply have to point out several obvious things to you. First, Dell is a company that makes computers. Apple is a company that makes computers and other gadgets. They both offer COMPUTERS. Therefor, they are competing in the COMPUTER MARKET. Now let me explai. How this is different from the topic at hand.
The App Stores sells applications for iPhones and iPod Touches, but obly those that that meet the App Stores Guidlines. The Cydia Store only sells apps (packages, really) that do not meet the App Store's Guidlines. They could never be allowed in the app store! They are offering different things.

[Wondercow]

sEaMoNkeY said:

I'm reluctant to even respond to your comment because it is so poorly thought out

Please do point out where my single-sentence post that directly refutes what you said is "poorly thought out". Apparently you meant something other than what you actually said--this is a common problem, people don't say what they're thinking expecting instead that others will be mind-readers.
>but I simply have to point out several obvious things to you. First, Dell is a company that makes computers. Apple is a company that makes computers and other gadgets. They both offer COMPUTERS. Therefor, they are competing in the COMPUTER MARKET.
AppStore Developers make applications, Cydia developers make applications. They both offer APPLICATIONS. Therefore they are competing in the iPHONEOS APPLICATIONS MARKET.
>Now let me explai. How this is different from the topic at hand.
Oh, please do.

Quote

The App Stores sells applications for iPhones and iPod Touches, but obly those that that meet the App Stores Guidlines. The Cydia Store only sells apps (packages, really) that do not meet the App Store's Guidlines. They could never be allowed in the app store! They are offering different things.

Apple only sells computers that meet Apple's various guidelines. The Dell store sells computers that do not meet Apple's guidelines; they could never be allowed in an Apple store. Therefore, Dell and Apple are not competition.

You're trying to create a difference where one does not exist. The point you're trying to make, it would seem, is that since Store A would never sell the wares offered by Store B then the two are not in competition. That is the fallacy that I am demonstrating: Store A (Apple) would never sell the wares offered by Store B (Dell)....

To take it in another direction, if the AppStore offers a voice recorder app and Cydia offers a voice recorder app then the two sources are competing for the user, notwithstanding the fact that the Cydia app would never be allowed in the AppStore.

[bonesb]

Gotta chime in here, seeing a couple of posters defending the hacking side of this issue. I've got two points.
First, I tether and pay for it - hackers and abusers of the TOS for each company have led us to data caps, and the very few abusers have affected my work detrimentally - I have to carefully manage my data use when I didn't have to think about it. I'm just one of thousands of small business owner who'd love to spend some quality time with the abusers who have made our work just a little tougher.
Second - go ahead and hack away, but keep the hacked devices off the networks - come up with a couple hundred billion dollars and build your own network to use. Hacked and unbalanced systems make it rough on everyone on the network in the area of a modified device. The wireless networks are not property of subscribers, plan users pay a subscription for access to someone else's network. Build your own network and let me hack away at it for you and see how you like it!

[People_Eater]

This article makes no sense.
Palm threatening Pre hackers is somehow interpreted as "getting friendly" with Pre hackers, and taking a "hands-off" approach?
Have I entered an alternate dimension where words mean the opposite of what they mean?