[Macworld]

Post your comments for Nik Software releases Complete Collection Lightroom edition here

[andrewrodney]

"Edits made using the plug-ins within Lightroom are non-destructive in nature, with edits applied automatically to a newly generated TIFF file and not the original."
How do you figure that's non destructive? Certainly the TIFf isn't.

[wupher]

"Newly generated", as in not 'over the top of' but 'instead of the original', leaving the original untouched.

It is in no way destructive to the original file because it creates a duplicate of that file in tiff format to which all the edits are applied.

[andrewrodney]

wupher said:

"Newly generated", as in not 'over the top of' but 'instead of the original', leaving the original untouched.

It is in no way destructive to the original file because it creates a duplicate of that file in tiff format to which all the edits are applied.

You mean like every application on the planet that has a "Save As"? Or Photoshop's "Duplicate Image? Certainly this has never been touted as "non destructive" since day one of computing until the marketing boys and girls came up with this silly term. The TIFF in this case absolutely has undergone data loss.

Now IF you could apply these edits via metadata instructions within the Raw processing pipeline (like the other edits in Lightroom), it truly would be non destructive because the new resulting pixels of the TIFF is created from the Raw data source; its a new, virgin RGB document. But that's not possible with either Aperture or Lightroom as the Raw processing engine is closed.

Calling this non destructive is a pile of marketing nonsense.

[Hawaiian_Starman]

I've tried these plug-ins within Aperture 2, Lightroom 2 and Photoshop CS 3. IMO Regardless of your app of choice, Photoshop is the best way to go with Nik plug-ins. (If using Aperture or Lightroom, select the image, then open in Photoshop via the Edit-in menu item).
In Photoshop, Nik creates a separate layer for each effect from any of the 5 plug-ins (Define, Viveza, Efex, Silver Efex, Sharpener). Very easy to deselect, modify etc. after completing with Nik. Also, these plug-ins are "smart filter" compatible. If you opened the image in Photoshop via Aperture or Lightroom, the final product is saved back as a new TIFF file.
By contrast, working with Aperture or Lightroom makes deleting a specific effect, or backtracking difficult at best. Plus, it tends to clutter up the browser with multiple versions.

[whitedog]

Hawaiian_Starman said:

I've tried these plug-ins within Aperture 2, Lightroom 2 and Photoshop CS 3. IMO Regardless of your app of choice, Photoshop is the best way to go with Nik plug-ins. (If using Aperture or Lightroom, select the image, then open in Photoshop via the Edit-in menu item).

In Photoshop, Nik creates a separate layer for each effect from any of the 5 plug-ins (Define, Viveza, Efex, Silver Efex, Sharpener). Very easy to deselect, modify etc. after completing with Nik. Also, these plug-ins are "smart filter" compatible. If you opened the image in Photoshop via Aperture or Lightroom, the final product is saved back as a new TIFF file.

By contrast, working with Aperture or Lightroom makes deleting a specific effect, or backtracking difficult at best. Plus, it tends to clutter up the browser with multiple versions.

Thanks for the heads-up. I guess this is why the collection is offered for free to current Photoshop users. It does seem as if Nik is trying to churn up business by bolting their plug-ins onto essentially incompatible applications. The Lightroom/Photoshop workflow has improved with CS4 and Lightroom 2 and is relatively seamless now. You can move to Photoshop from Lightroom and have a new version of the file generated and saved back to your Lightroom Library. So it would seem much more appropriate to use Nik in Photoshop with the advantage of truly non-destructive layers not available in Lightroom (or Aperture).

[andrewrodney]

"So it would seem much more appropriate to use Nik in Photoshop with the advantage of truly non-destructive layers not available in Lightroom (or Aperture). "

Absolutely although, its important to recognize that even with layers, once you print or flatten, the damage (rounding errors in applying the corrections) kick in. So while not really fully non destructive, much more flexible.

[Hawaiian_Starman]

I think the plugin within Aperture or Lightroom is useful if you want to change one thing. Multiple image manipulations within either app make the process much more complicated than it needs to be.

For special images, I always save the Photoshop layered version in a separate folder outside of Aperture.

In Aperture right click opens Contextual Menu. Top option is Edit with> - quick way to open the image in Photoshop. Not sure whether this is the same in Lightroom, however, I'd be surprised if it wasn't available.

The Define plug-in in Photoshop has an "all image" option in the Noise Reduction>Reduce process. This is not found in the Aperture plugin.

[whitedog]

andrewrodney said:

"So it would seem much more appropriate to use Nik in Photoshop with the advantage of truly non-destructive layers not available in Lightroom (or Aperture). "

Absolutely although, its important to recognize that even with layers, once you print or flatten, the damage (rounding errors in applying the corrections) kick in. So while not really fully non destructive, much more flexible.

Which is why I always save my PSD originals. Flattened versions always get another name, or at least a different file format, to distinguish them from the Photoshop master versions. Another way to deal with this is to create Layer Comps within a PSD file; this allows you to experiment liberally without adding to the file clutter created by versioning everything you do to a file.

[rladd]

I'm a Lightroom user but also have photoshop. I'm considering buying the NiK LR plugin collection b/c it is much less expensive... but perhaps that's penny-wise and pound foolish.

In most cases I'm guessing I'll only use either Viveza or Silver Efex, although in some cases I may want to also reduce noise and/or sharpen outside of LR.

Here is my question: Has anyone tested to see how much damage is done if you use the LR plugins and reopen the TIFF once? twice? three times? (vs.the Photoshop method). I'm hoping that if you start with a raw file and open it as a high quality TiFF file the damage will be minimal. (i.e. not easily detectable in a 13 x 19 print).

Thanks much.