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iPhone 3GS limited to 384 Kbps upstream

#29 User is offline   Glenn_Fleishman Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 08:57 AM

DanielDecker said:

@Glenn_Fleishman

Didn't notice you were the author. Way to treat a customer! I have been coming to this site likely longer than you have been employed at Macworld.

I am heartbroken and disappointed in your lack of professionalism. I consider the staff of Macworld to be brothers in arms, and you attack me. Real. Nice.

I made no remarks about the content of the article. It presented facts, and discussion ensued. I choose to participate in the discussion and you, the author lambaste me.

I am shedding real tears of sorrow. Crocodile tears.

Dude, if you're going to storm into a forum, make absurd statements with a defensive swagger, and then rage against people stating things contrary to you, you'll get some sarcasm. That's the law. I don't pretend to understand the law, I just enforce it.

I'm not a Macworld employee.

The reason I and others called you a troll is that you're asserting as truth something that's just plain contrary to the facts and experience of most of the rest of us. The iPhone was the first smartphone in the U.S. that treated upstream as equally important as downstream. You can transfer in both directions over Wi-Fi and cell data. Before this, smartphones in the U.S. (less so elsewhere) were about us being consumers, not producers of creative content. Thus, we were, as you note, only making HTTP requests and sending email.

The iPhone's philosophy has now infected all the other smartphone makers that sell in the U.S. market, and there are an increasing number of basic features (like video) that requires higher uploads speeds to take full advantage. While 384 Kbps didn't seem slow to you when uploading a video, the more you use and rely on the feature, the more the constraint on the 3G uploads will probably become more frustrating. If I'm out with my phone for a day and record 1 GB of video, uploading it at 1 Mbps is going to seem far better than 384 Kbps. The flip side is that if I'm uploading that much, i should probably have my phone plugged into power, and I am probably leaving my phone sitting somewhere to carry out the task.

As for functions that aren't build into the basic featureset but added through applications, you can just scan through and see how many programs are more useful with faster, symmetric broadband. If you don't plan to use any of those, then having faster upload speeds doesn't buy you anything. However, based on the kinds of applications that are sold, i expect many users would benefit from faster uploads speeds.

Since we can use Wi-Fi at high upload speeds, you can contrast the same experience over Wi-Fi as over 3G.

Finally, as to you point that a lot of people have 384 Kbps upstream over broadband, that's incorrect. The tens of millions of cable customers and a large portion of DSL customers and all fiber-backed customers all have 768 Kbps and much higher upload rates. I have 2 to 5 Mbps upstream at home via Comcast through their cheapest service, as do some many millions of their customers.
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#30 User is offline   cseeman Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 08:58 AM

Excuse me but Apple is trying to sell to professionals and enterprise. It's competing with Blackberry and Nokia devices. The iPhone is a smartphone and, with contract, can be a $3000 commitment.

[quote name='usajag21']
I have to agree with Daniel. 384 Kbps upstream is a good speed for a CONSUMER device. I don't think it is fair to compare 3G capabilities with WIFI or corporate networks. It's an apples to oranges comparison. The 3GS was designed to upload photos and short videos to MobileMe or youtube. It does that well.
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#31 User is offline   Glenn_Fleishman Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:04 AM

that1guy said:

@CV.

Stop trying to pick a fight. Daniel made a couple of valid points, and quite frankly i'm astonished that Glenn responded in the way he did. Regarding the cellular speed - home based networking speeds, that Daniel used to make his point, yes you can get 5000-15000kbps upstream, if you either a: want to pay through the nose b: live in one of the limited coverage areas that have such speeds available



Trying to argue against his point by talking about schools, corporations and coffee shops is just plain silly. The iPhone is a consumer device that runs on a consumer network. Plus, if you were in the vicinity of a school, corporation, or coffee shop you could just use the wifi connection available to you - which would make your whole argument mute.

I calls 'em as I sees em; Daniel's post had all the hallmarks of trolling (incendiary language, ad hominem insults, a lack of specifity, categorical statements that were incorrect).

On the cell side, I was just pointing out that when you're making a device that's supposed to be the most advanced smartphone on the market, designed for the fastest mobile broadband networks, it's a little punk to not either a) explain the limitations on the upload side, especially when you're pushing people to make videos or use programs that can make use of higher upstream speeds and b) not be Apple and go the extra mile in producing something that's got more under the hood than its competitors.

Your point about home broadband is reasoning from one's own experience. You don't have to take my word for it, but I've done some extensive research lately (for a Macworld feature on broadband that ran recently) tapping into reports from the Pew Internet and American Life Project, CDC research (where the agency captures Internet type usage during other surveying work), and FCC surveys. You can read those reports directly.

The basic result is that of people who have broadband at home, which is a strong overlap with people who would buy an iPhone, a significant number have reasonably high download speeds (2 to 5 Mbps) and upload speeds of at least 768 Kbps. Nearly all Comcast customers and those of most other cable companies have a minimum of 5 Mbps down and 2 Mbps, but many have 10 to 15 Mbps down and 2 to 5 Mbps.
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#32 User is offline   DanielDecker Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:05 AM

The article that spawned this discussion is citing cellular data rates. I was drawing a correlation from 384 Kbps upstream cellular data rates to 384 Kbps upstream home based data rates in effort to illustrate that 384 Kbps upstream should be adequate for a cell phone if it is adequate for home broadband service. One consumer product to another.

Sorry if that was somehow confusing.

I get criticized and attacked for having the audacity to use the iPhone as it has been marketed and to be satisfied with it's data throughput. How dare I be so stupid? How dare I not envision a world where the iPhone revolutionizes ENG and not knowing EXACTLY what is happening in that field at this VERY moment.

I'm not here to be antagonistic, or a troll. But I will not tolerate being misunderstood or misrepresented.

To reiterate, and clarify if need be, my beef if with those that want to cry foul when no harm has been done and no promises have been broken.
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#33 User is online   that1guy Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:06 AM

Glenn_Fleishman said:

I am shedding real tears of sorrow. Crocodile tears.

Wow. Just, wow.
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#34 User is offline   usajag21 Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:06 AM

The iPhone is marketed as a consumer device. They are adding more enterprise features to try to sell the phone. Someone may be more likely to buy the phone if they can also use it in a business setting. Blackberry is doing the same thing, only they are going the other direction. The whole point here is 384 Kbps is not terrible. The majority of users are probably not going to care. Most users are consumers of media, therefore, downstream is much more important than upstream.
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#35 User is online   that1guy Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:11 AM

Quote

{quote:title=Glenn_Fleishman wrote:}
I calls 'em as I sees em


It might pay you to look twice in the future. I was under the impression that you were a decent guy. Looks like i got that wrong.
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#36 User is offline   DanielDecker Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:14 AM

I agree, we deserve more for our money, at the house and on the go.

I would love 1Mbps up while out and about, but I doubt that most people would notice or benefit. The equations for bandwidth are skewed in favor of downstream because that is where the majority+ of users will reap the most benefit. Where they will perceive the value. They don't typically pay attention to how long it takes to contact a website and receive a response (or even know any of that is taking place). But they do notice how fast that little blue bar fills up.

If it fair and equitable? Does it suit everyones needs? Should we be clamoring for lawsuits? Not really.

Does it give most people what they expect for their money? Probably yes.
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#37 User is offline   Glenn_Fleishman Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:20 AM

that1guy said:

> {quote:title=Glenn_Fleishman wrote:}
> I calls 'em as I sees emIt might pay you to look twice in the future. I was under the impression that you were a decent guy. Looks like i got that wrong.

Ack! I'm hit! You all go on without me.
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#38 User is offline   cpoff Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:23 AM

Ok, everyone. Things were said that can't be un-said.
Let's all move on and stick to the topic. Please.
Curt

#39 User is offline   Eytan Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 09:36 AM

Yeah, well where I live I am LUCKY if I can get 200 kbps uploads via comcast, while I routinely get 9 Mbps download, so I don't know where you get the 2-3 figure. Looking at Comcast's plans for my area, they TOP out at 2 Mbps IF you pay and ONLY in bursts.
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#40 User is offline   DanielDecker Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 10:33 AM

My attempts to clarify my point count for nothing?

No doubt, I should have been more clear to begin with. I'll settle for a "drive by posting" that got outta hand, but never trolling. Not at Macworld, I save that for Paul Thurrott.

Glenn, you should have transformed this piece into an editorial, and included your insight as to the perception of Apple's marketing. Drawing the correlations you outlined above. That would have been much more fun ;-)
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#41 User is offline   Glenn_Fleishman Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 11:46 AM

DanielDecker said:

My attempts to clarify my point count for nothing?

Didn't mean to ignite a storm, and I see that you just started off with everyone on the wrong foot. My apologies!

I hope the additional clarification in comments about broadband upstream rates in residences, and the fact that Apple and AT&T aren't being particularly clear about the lack of high-speed upstream (despite that being universal across all AT&T smartphones) was useful.
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#42 User is offline   NickDunklee Icon

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 03:24 PM

To name a few EVDO Rev. A or HSPA (HSDPA+HSUPA) phones:
Palm Treo 800w, Treo Pro, Pre for Sprint
Verizon XV6800/Sprint HTC Mogul
HTC Touch Diamond CDMA for Sprint/Verizon
HTC Touch Pro CDMA for Sprint/Verizon
Samsung Omnia for Verizon
Samsung Saga for Verizon
HTC Touch Pro aka AT&T Fuze WCDMA for AT&T
Samsung Jack for AT&T
Samsung Propel Pro for AT&T
Samsung Epix for AT&T
Samsung BlackJack 2 for AT&T
Pantech Matrix Pro for AT&T
Pantech C630 for AT&T
Sony Ericsson w760a for AT&T

Upcoming BlackBerry Tour for Sprint/Verizon

The Sony XPeria X1 - however not sold by any American carrier currently.
Several Samsung models of WCDMA (mostly Japanese imports however.)
The new HTC Hero does HSUPA as well.

--Information gathered from carrier and manufacturer sites - and a little personal hands on with several of the mentioned phones.
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