[robco]

I took a look at the Pre right before we went to buy iPhone 3GSes. The network is better - EVDO is faster than HSPA (currently). The multitasking was nice. I hope Apple can emulate some of what Palm has done here. But I agree the phone felt cheap. The physical keyboard has tiny jellybean keys and is a nightmare to use. I'm sure the Pre isn't the only device we'll see based on WebOS though and hopefully we'll see an all touchscreen device (like T-Mobile's upcoming myTouch 3G) soon. Perhaps in a couple years when the carriers are transitioning to LTE, the iPhone will no longer be an exclusive for AT&T - and perhaps Android and WebOS will have matured a bit more to be a better competitor to the iPhone. But for now, it needs some work - better hardware would be a nice start.

[robco]

Actually, it's the SMS that's really pissing me off about AT&T. I never use the damn phone. I'd rather get unlimited SMS and pay $0.20/min to make calls. But the pricing for SMS is outrageous. I really hope AT&T doesn't keep GSM. My reception in certain buildings (including the one I live in) is horrible - it's a known issue with GSM. The device itself has been great, I just miss Sprint's reception. By the time our AT&T contract expires, my hope is that one of the following will occur:

a) AT&T actually improves their network to the point where I don't laugh every time I see one of their ads claiming they have the fastest 3G network (not by a longshot) or fewest dropped calls. b) Apple realizes that not everyone will switch to AT&T to get the iPhone and drops the exclusivity agreement. c) Another device actually becomes competitive and gets a similar level of third-party support.

But I'm not holding my breath...

[shawend]

The biggest thing holding back the iPhone is AT&T. I have tried all of the major carriers and for where I live and work Verizon is king. Which is why the Pre does not have to be better or even as good as the iPhone to garner significant market share. It has to be available on a network you want to use. I believe that Sprint, T-Mobile, and Verizon have taken notice of how well AT&T with its crappy network has done with the iPhone.
I am still using my Treo 650 on Verizon and can do most of what an iPhone can do, albeit in a not very user friendly manner. The thing that hacks my iPhone friends off the most is when they are roaming about trying to find a signal while I am happily surfing the web or talking on the phone.
I will be getting a Pre the second Verizon sells them since I have figured out that it is the network that makes these devices truly useful. Without a signal that iPhone is just an an expensive iPod Touch with a monthly contract. I would have bought an iPhone already if they had been available on Verizon or even T-Mobile to a lesser degree. However, my time dealing with AT&T as a wireless carrier has left me in a place where I would rather do without a cell phone than EVER deal with AT&T again. Sorry if that means I will not be supporting Apple but that was, after all, their choice not mine.

Shawen

[metu]

the 50,000 app point is really not fair. This is the same argument that folks used about PC/Mac for a long time. More software.
The Pre is new. It's yet to be seen how many apps will be developed for it.

[reverie]

shawend: I think more generally, what's holding internet-centric smartphones like the iPhone or Pre back are the networks (that and high data charges). I don't think it's fair to lay too much blame on AT&T, more than on any other US carrier. One should remember that they are currently accomodating 8 or 10 million iPhone users in the US. I find it hard to believe that Verizon's network would be in any condition to meet that kind of demand.

metu: Then I guess I'm not allowed to say "the Pre doesn't have any games" because that's what the Wintards have told has for many years as well? ;-)

[sporks]

KPO said:

GPS comes to mind. How will the Tom-Tom application react if the user gets a phone call? Will it stop giving directions? If not, does that mean that Apple is giving it access to multitasking?

I agree that limiting multitasking is an effective way of preserving battery life, at least until battery technology ever catches up to the rest of the technology in modern devices. That said, there is a case for allowing limited multi-tasking ability.

Right. My point was that a few specific types of tasks might require multi-tasking, but most don't. On a computer, you multitask because you have some long process you want to run in the background while you're doing something else, or you want to be able to switch between programs quickly, or you don't want to lose your program state (open windows in a browser, for example). Most of those reasons are due to slow load times and programs not saving their state when they quit.

The upshot is, I think that there isn't a need for general multitasking on a mobile device. Just a few specialized tasks (like GPS) where it makes sense.

[Steve_S]

sporks said:

Don't underestimate the negative impact of shoddy hardware. The fact that the thing feels like cheap crap that's difficult to use is going to be a big downward pull on the WebOS.

That's nothing new for Palm though. They've always has a reputation for shoddy hardware. Further, the fact that they went cheap with the plastic screen has also come back to bite them. There are plenty of Palm screen scratches complaints out there now. Apple made this mistake once with the iPod mini, but at least learned from that lesson.

Quote

It's also interesting to see that Apple continues to be proven right: Multitasking slows down your phone and kills its battery.

Yes, Apple is right, but that doesn't mean the end user shouldn't have the option. Apple could very well have an "advanced" mode in the preferences that's turned off by default to allow people to multitask with the iPhone. I suspect we'll see multitasking with the 4.0 software release. Apple could also only make that feature available on those devices with 256MB ram or more.

[metu]

sure you can, as long as you say the Pre doesn't have any games... yet.

B-)

I actually never bought that more software stuff. The mac has always had what most folks need. If you needed software to run a dentist office or had some other special need then back then you'd probably go with the pc, but for most folks it was never an issue.



i believe that the Pre has more apps than the iPhone did when it was released. Hey, I'm just sayin... ;)

[sparkplug]

Yes, it is "fair" to point out that the iPhone now has nearly 60,000 apps while the Pre has only 30 or so. People in the market for a new smartphone want to be able to have a large selections of apps to choose from and use NOW, not: "Hey, we're not sure, but there MIGHT be a lot of apps for the Pre SOMETIME in the future."

You are correct in stating that, at one time, a lot of people would not consider buying a Mac simply because there were a lot more apps available for a PC. This same differential between the iPhone and the Pre will probably prevent some people from buying a Pre now.

Would you buy a similarly priced HDTV with nearly identical tech specs if one of the HDTVs could only receive 10 channels and the other could receive 1,000+? Would you be content if the salesperson told you the 10-channel HDTV might be able to receive more channels sometime down the road?

The iPhone and Pre are more mini-computers than "smartphones" and the apps that can run on them give them more functionality. Right now and for the foreseeable future the iPhone has a commanding and almost insurmountable lead.

[Steve_S]

shawend said:

The biggest thing holding back the iPhone is AT&T. I have tried all of the major carriers and for where I live and work Verizon is king.

I generally disagree with that statement. While there are a few irrational people that will refuse one service or another for various reasons they cling to, in reality, AT&T is nowhere near as bad as some people claim. I'm not going to sing their praises, because over the years, I've been with multiple carriers and none deserve praise, including Verizon. However, the iPhone is big enough that if people really wanted the device, they'd switch services (as many have already done) just to use it. I would. I've used my iPhone in various parts of the country without issue. While I certainly acknowledge some carriers will do better in certain areas, this broad sweeping comments about overall carrier quality usually never hold up. Give the choice of using the Storm on Verizon, the Pre on Sprint or the iPhone on AT&T, I'll take the iPhone every time and be very happy with that decision.

[robco]

It's partly due to the underlying technology. GSM doesn't have the same range that CDMA does. It's also well known that common building materials such as reinforced concrete and metal impair GSM reception. Outside my house, I get full bars in most areas and 3G coverage. As soon as I walk inside my building or other buildings, the signal strength plummets. There really isn't a whole lot AT&T can do about this, other than switch to a lower frequency. We're hoping the femtocells come out of beta soon. I also think AT&T severely underestimated the popularity of the iPhone and how much users would be using the network and have been trying to catch up.

[natmusak]

Macworld said:

The big marquee feature of the webOS is, of course, multitasking. Palm?s been stressing the capability in its advertising since it?s one capability that the iPhone notably lacks.

but then...

Quote

More than once I found that using a number of other apps while playing music in the background would cause the music to skip, a problem I?ve encountered only infrequently on the iPhone.

Hmm, how could you have experienced that problem on the iPhone if the iPhone doesn't multitask?

Maybe because the iPhone does multitask. Sure, it's on a per-app basis at Apple discretion, but it's there. You can listen to music, or text message friends, or record a memo, or take calls while browsing in MobileSafari.

Considering the dearth of third party software support for the Pre, it's difficult to make the argument that being able to multitask third party apps is all that useful, the only exception I can think of is internet radio (is there a Pandora app on the Pre's app store?). Most third party apps have no use for multitasking; push notifications are more than enough (and it can certainly be argued that the Pre's notifications are better implemented).

But then, Pre apps are akin to Dashboard widgets, in contrast to the iPhone's lower-level Objective-C Cocoa Touch apps that allow for far more advanced apps, namely games, so it's not entirely surprising the Pre allows first and third party multitasking.

[reverie]

But isn't 3G (3GSM UMTS) based on CDMA technology? Therefore it should have the same range indoors, no?

[macless]

You don't really need 50,000 apps to be a good phone, just good call quality and about 100 good apps.