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Ulysses Seen iPad webcomic gets Apple approval after cuts
#5
macwmaurice 
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:12 AM
Strange, the MacWorld UK page showed an example of the censoring, but MacWorld US is as prudish as Steve apparently...
http://www.macworld....?newsid=3225946
http://www.macworld....?newsid=3225946
#6
patriotusa
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:47 AM
As I recall there is still a web browser on the iPad. Please feel free to download museum photos, art, and as many adult comics as you would like there. I for one am glad that the iTunes store will not be overrun with pornography, because that is what would happen if you let the standards slip. Believe me I am no prude, but there are enough other places on the Internet, and the iPad, where you can get that sort of content.
#7
Stewsburntmonkey
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 10:00 AM
patriotusa, on 08 June 2010 - 09:47 AM, said:
As I recall there is still a web browser on the iPad. Please feel free to download museum photos, art, and as many adult comics as you would like there. I for one am glad that the iTunes store will not be overrun with pornography, because that is what would happen if you let the standards slip. Believe me I am no prude, but there are enough other places on the Internet, and the iPad, where you can get that sort of content.
The interesting thing is that Ulysses Seen started on the web, so they could have done this as a web-app much more easily, but apparently wanted to use the App Store to gain the attention.
#8
wg45678
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 10:25 AM
Stewsburntmonkey, on 08 June 2010 - 10:00 AM, said:
The interesting thing is that Ulysses Seen started on the web, so they could have done this as a web-app much more easily, but apparently wanted to use the App Store to gain the attention.
I dont' fully agree with that statement. At least in the App Store the developers get paid. They can then link to and publish whatever they want, thru, as Steve Jobs noted yesterday, the competing HTML5 platform. I think it's a good pairing. Seems like everyone expects whatever is on the web to be free.
This post has been edited by wg45678: 08 June 2010 - 10:25 AM
#9
CarlaHufstedler
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 11:34 AM
Yet you can still buy and download sex position manuals from the App Store. Something is amiss.
#10
Stewsburntmonkey
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 12:03 PM
wg45678, on 08 June 2010 - 10:25 AM, said:
Stewsburntmonkey, on 08 June 2010 - 10:00 AM, said:
The interesting thing is that Ulysses Seen started on the web, so they could have done this as a web-app much more easily, but apparently wanted to use the App Store to gain the attention.
I dont' fully agree with that statement. At least in the App Store the developers get paid. They can then link to and publish whatever they want, thru, as Steve Jobs noted yesterday, the competing HTML5 platform. I think it's a good pairing. Seems like everyone expects whatever is on the web to be free.
While that's true in a wider system, this is a free app in the App Store so making money through purchases isn't their aim.
#11
robberry
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 01:56 PM
Lots of people are starting to carry this story as if it's a question of censorship. As the guy spending the next ten years drawing this thing I can tell you that's not really the case.
Artists working within any form have to look at the restrictions of the form. I was surprised by the degree of restrictions Apple imposed on this new delivery platform, but I recognized that is was their decision to make (for however long it lasts).
As everyone knows, including Apple, ULYSSES isn't a book that can be adapted with a PG rating on it's imagery when the author was bent on pushing the boundaries of "acceptable language."
But it's a book so complex that readers benefit from the kind of annotation model we built to take them through. So we made a decision to adapt to these restrictions so that we might show the world a new way to look at the novel.
Apple is better to work with than you might think, though the unexpected roadblocks of their content were a bit baffling.
Still...
It's not censorship if no one other than you as an artist controls the alterations you make in accordance with certain guidelines. It's not censorship if you can still make the work you want to make online and allow readers to go there and find it through external links outside the app. It's not censorship if you've got something unique to offer and the choice is yours, as an artist, to decide whether you'd like to offer it in a new but restricted platform.
So, yeah, as an artist, I feel the iPad has some serious limitation on how I mean to interpret this time-proven work of fiction. But as a developer I'm excited by what a book can be, how completely differently we can deliver it, in this medium and on this unique platform.
So all the edits were mine, painful as some of them were. As an artist, I followed the guidelines. I did this because, as a developer, I believed in this new way of seeing the novel. And I believe it's like this;
Censorship evaporates in the face of art and media.
Re-designing one's sense of artistic freedom in one medium for the potential of a new and bigger utility in another is the spirit that took Joyce's novel out of the literary magazines and into the hard-bound novel. And still those hard-bounds had to be smuggled into someplaces less ready to make the change the novel heralded.
Now, thankfully, the novel is every where.
Our goal, as always, has been to help people understand and access this novel through the ease of comics, and web-based interaction.
So the fences I may've jumped as an artist to make this occur are, in my mind, surprisingly low, despite the barbwire everyone likes to talk about. Fences that low can't stand long and, really, are mostly short-sighted but well-intentioned attempts to keep the varmints out while the herd still runs free.
C'mon, people. If you want to make art on a new stage then you have to accept that there might be a dresscode to follow for your audition. If you believe in the stage, that doesn't mean you follow the dresscode.
Thanks, -Rob
Artists working within any form have to look at the restrictions of the form. I was surprised by the degree of restrictions Apple imposed on this new delivery platform, but I recognized that is was their decision to make (for however long it lasts).
As everyone knows, including Apple, ULYSSES isn't a book that can be adapted with a PG rating on it's imagery when the author was bent on pushing the boundaries of "acceptable language."
But it's a book so complex that readers benefit from the kind of annotation model we built to take them through. So we made a decision to adapt to these restrictions so that we might show the world a new way to look at the novel.
Apple is better to work with than you might think, though the unexpected roadblocks of their content were a bit baffling.
Still...
It's not censorship if no one other than you as an artist controls the alterations you make in accordance with certain guidelines. It's not censorship if you can still make the work you want to make online and allow readers to go there and find it through external links outside the app. It's not censorship if you've got something unique to offer and the choice is yours, as an artist, to decide whether you'd like to offer it in a new but restricted platform.
So, yeah, as an artist, I feel the iPad has some serious limitation on how I mean to interpret this time-proven work of fiction. But as a developer I'm excited by what a book can be, how completely differently we can deliver it, in this medium and on this unique platform.
So all the edits were mine, painful as some of them were. As an artist, I followed the guidelines. I did this because, as a developer, I believed in this new way of seeing the novel. And I believe it's like this;
Censorship evaporates in the face of art and media.
Re-designing one's sense of artistic freedom in one medium for the potential of a new and bigger utility in another is the spirit that took Joyce's novel out of the literary magazines and into the hard-bound novel. And still those hard-bounds had to be smuggled into someplaces less ready to make the change the novel heralded.
Now, thankfully, the novel is every where.
Our goal, as always, has been to help people understand and access this novel through the ease of comics, and web-based interaction.
So the fences I may've jumped as an artist to make this occur are, in my mind, surprisingly low, despite the barbwire everyone likes to talk about. Fences that low can't stand long and, really, are mostly short-sighted but well-intentioned attempts to keep the varmints out while the herd still runs free.
C'mon, people. If you want to make art on a new stage then you have to accept that there might be a dresscode to follow for your audition. If you believe in the stage, that doesn't mean you follow the dresscode.
Thanks, -Rob
#12
rpmcestmoi
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Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:00 PM
Apple is protecting its franchise. The net can be surfed from the iPad. This is a non-issue.
#13
LachlanGlanville
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Posted 09 June 2010 - 05:48 PM
robberry, on 08 June 2010 - 01:56 PM, said:
Lots of people are starting to carry this story as if it's a question of censorship. As the guy spending the next ten years drawing this thing I can tell you that's not really the case.
Artists working within any form have to look at the restrictions of the form. I was surprised by the degree of restrictions Apple imposed on this new delivery platform, but I recognized that is was their decision to make (for however long it lasts).
As everyone knows, including Apple, ULYSSES isn't a book that can be adapted with a PG rating on it's imagery when the author was bent on pushing the boundaries of "acceptable language."
But it's a book so complex that readers benefit from the kind of annotation model we built to take them through. So we made a decision to adapt to these restrictions so that we might show the world a new way to look at the novel.
Apple is better to work with than you might think, though the unexpected roadblocks of their content were a bit baffling.
Still...
It's not censorship if no one other than you as an artist controls the alterations you make in accordance with certain guidelines. It's not censorship if you can still make the work you want to make online and allow readers to go there and find it through external links outside the app. It's not censorship if you've got something unique to offer and the choice is yours, as an artist, to decide whether you'd like to offer it in a new but restricted platform.
So, yeah, as an artist, I feel the iPad has some serious limitation on how I mean to interpret this time-proven work of fiction. But as a developer I'm excited by what a book can be, how completely differently we can deliver it, in this medium and on this unique platform.
So all the edits were mine, painful as some of them were. As an artist, I followed the guidelines. I did this because, as a developer, I believed in this new way of seeing the novel. And I believe it's like this;
Censorship evaporates in the face of art and media.
Re-designing one's sense of artistic freedom in one medium for the potential of a new and bigger utility in another is the spirit that took Joyce's novel out of the literary magazines and into the hard-bound novel. And still those hard-bounds had to be smuggled into someplaces less ready to make the change the novel heralded.
Now, thankfully, the novel is every where.
Our goal, as always, has been to help people understand and access this novel through the ease of comics, and web-based interaction.
So the fences I may've jumped as an artist to make this occur are, in my mind, surprisingly low, despite the barbwire everyone likes to talk about. Fences that low can't stand long and, really, are mostly short-sighted but well-intentioned attempts to keep the varmints out while the herd still runs free.
C'mon, people. If you want to make art on a new stage then you have to accept that there might be a dresscode to follow for your audition. If you believe in the stage, that doesn't mean you follow the dresscode.
Thanks, -Rob
Artists working within any form have to look at the restrictions of the form. I was surprised by the degree of restrictions Apple imposed on this new delivery platform, but I recognized that is was their decision to make (for however long it lasts).
As everyone knows, including Apple, ULYSSES isn't a book that can be adapted with a PG rating on it's imagery when the author was bent on pushing the boundaries of "acceptable language."
But it's a book so complex that readers benefit from the kind of annotation model we built to take them through. So we made a decision to adapt to these restrictions so that we might show the world a new way to look at the novel.
Apple is better to work with than you might think, though the unexpected roadblocks of their content were a bit baffling.
Still...
It's not censorship if no one other than you as an artist controls the alterations you make in accordance with certain guidelines. It's not censorship if you can still make the work you want to make online and allow readers to go there and find it through external links outside the app. It's not censorship if you've got something unique to offer and the choice is yours, as an artist, to decide whether you'd like to offer it in a new but restricted platform.
So, yeah, as an artist, I feel the iPad has some serious limitation on how I mean to interpret this time-proven work of fiction. But as a developer I'm excited by what a book can be, how completely differently we can deliver it, in this medium and on this unique platform.
So all the edits were mine, painful as some of them were. As an artist, I followed the guidelines. I did this because, as a developer, I believed in this new way of seeing the novel. And I believe it's like this;
Censorship evaporates in the face of art and media.
Re-designing one's sense of artistic freedom in one medium for the potential of a new and bigger utility in another is the spirit that took Joyce's novel out of the literary magazines and into the hard-bound novel. And still those hard-bounds had to be smuggled into someplaces less ready to make the change the novel heralded.
Now, thankfully, the novel is every where.
Our goal, as always, has been to help people understand and access this novel through the ease of comics, and web-based interaction.
So the fences I may've jumped as an artist to make this occur are, in my mind, surprisingly low, despite the barbwire everyone likes to talk about. Fences that low can't stand long and, really, are mostly short-sighted but well-intentioned attempts to keep the varmints out while the herd still runs free.
C'mon, people. If you want to make art on a new stage then you have to accept that there might be a dresscode to follow for your audition. If you believe in the stage, that doesn't mean you follow the dresscode.
Thanks, -Rob
All due respect Rob, but I think it is without a doubt a question of censorship. The fact that Apple won't allow the use of any form of nudity on a platform which is ostensibly for books is bizarre. No right thinking person would consider your work pornography, and yet they refuse to host it in its original form. The fact that you were required to make alterations in order to have it hosted is censorship, whether you made the revisions yourself or not.
It is wonderful that you have other avenues to publish the work, and I totally understand your decision to make those revisions to take advantage of the platform. But those restrictions should not exist. This is not about pornography, this is about allowing access to a work in its original form, not one that's been dumbed down.
I have to say this because I love Ulysses, and I love your work. It distresses me to have it tampered with.
#14
robberry
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Posted 10 June 2010 - 05:11 AM
Lachlan,
Thanks for that, and it's distressing for myself as well to water down work that I felt was the best way to represent the novel in this new form on the iPad. But the the tablet is something I always planned for as a viewing platform for this project and, currently, Apple's iPad is the only viable tablet around. So they do get to set the guidelines on what kind of products they want to offer there at this time.
When you move to a frontier territory to set up a town as Apple has done here with the iPad, the first buildings you put up are never the libraries, museums or newspaper offices. Usually they're the saloons and general stores. Apple, I believe, fears what happens to the town if there's too many of the former so they go a safer route with products carried in the latter.
But saloons and public houses are where the life of a town and it's art, particularly an art like Joyce's ULYSSES, are made. Not on the shelves of a grocer, no matter how well-intended he may be.
These conditions, like the tablet itself, will change as more and more people start using this kind of a platform and the new methods it offers in consuming and publishing books and other media. It will also change as competitors move into the market offering a different set of options.
I and my partners on ULYSSES "SEEN" are happy to have brought a new way to look at Joyce's novel to the world through the tablet and we respect that Apple's iPad and the iTunes store make that possible for us in ways no other company yet has to offer. They are firm in their guidelines and restrictions but have been respectful and straight-forward in all our dealings with them so far. We hope to have the next version of the app, with more pages of comic and readers' guide, in the App Store in time for BloomsDay and continuing this relationship for the foreseeable future.
Like any artist or publisher, we look forward to being able to make a book we're proud of and present it to the world, but we need to work with the vendors, the booksellers, to get our product out their. Vendors have their own guidelines and thoughts on the kind of material they want to carry, so we make some small concessions there to what is, currently, a "one bookstore" town.
But we're glad for fans and supporters like yourself who are willing to tell Apple the kind of books that you think they should carry and why ULYSSES "SEEN" is one of them.
Thanks again for that,
-Rob Berry
Thanks for that, and it's distressing for myself as well to water down work that I felt was the best way to represent the novel in this new form on the iPad. But the the tablet is something I always planned for as a viewing platform for this project and, currently, Apple's iPad is the only viable tablet around. So they do get to set the guidelines on what kind of products they want to offer there at this time.
When you move to a frontier territory to set up a town as Apple has done here with the iPad, the first buildings you put up are never the libraries, museums or newspaper offices. Usually they're the saloons and general stores. Apple, I believe, fears what happens to the town if there's too many of the former so they go a safer route with products carried in the latter.
But saloons and public houses are where the life of a town and it's art, particularly an art like Joyce's ULYSSES, are made. Not on the shelves of a grocer, no matter how well-intended he may be.
These conditions, like the tablet itself, will change as more and more people start using this kind of a platform and the new methods it offers in consuming and publishing books and other media. It will also change as competitors move into the market offering a different set of options.
I and my partners on ULYSSES "SEEN" are happy to have brought a new way to look at Joyce's novel to the world through the tablet and we respect that Apple's iPad and the iTunes store make that possible for us in ways no other company yet has to offer. They are firm in their guidelines and restrictions but have been respectful and straight-forward in all our dealings with them so far. We hope to have the next version of the app, with more pages of comic and readers' guide, in the App Store in time for BloomsDay and continuing this relationship for the foreseeable future.
Like any artist or publisher, we look forward to being able to make a book we're proud of and present it to the world, but we need to work with the vendors, the booksellers, to get our product out their. Vendors have their own guidelines and thoughts on the kind of material they want to carry, so we make some small concessions there to what is, currently, a "one bookstore" town.
But we're glad for fans and supporters like yourself who are willing to tell Apple the kind of books that you think they should carry and why ULYSSES "SEEN" is one of them.
Thanks again for that,
-Rob Berry
