[Macworld]

Post your comments for WordPress 3.0 here

[Photonerd]

My perspective as someone who used to hand-code their HTML and CSS and recently switched to WP as the "new savior" of web design, is that it's a PITA. If you want to make anything resembling a custom look, digging through their HTML and making changes is FAR more complicated than just making something yourself because you have to sit there and look through all the code and tags and try to figure out which parts do what on which template before you can change anything. WP is NOT significantly easier than any other solution UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that.

[MikeBlakemanw3t3]

Photonerd, on 30 July 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

My perspective as someone who used to hand-code their HTML and CSS and recently switched to WP as the "new savior" of web design, is that it's a PITA. If you want to make anything resembling a custom look, digging through their HTML and making changes is FAR more complicated than just making something yourself because you have to sit there and look through all the code and tags and try to figure out which parts do what on which template before you can change anything. WP is NOT significantly easier than any other solution UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that.

Easier? Not necessarily at first. Once you get your themes setup, it is the most powerful and customizable back end system provided at no cost that I have seen. All you have to do is get used to customizing and designing WP themes and you have a system that works great for clients to maintain their updates. So while you are correct that WP is easy when using default themes and plugins, and not otherwise, if you know how to customize a theme, it can be really powerful.

[macnews]

Photonerd - I don't understand. You say "UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that."

Part of the reason for any CMS is that you pick a look, stick with it but can easily update the website w/o having to worry about changing links all the time. This doesn't mean you have to stick with it forever...

If you do want to change the theme, you can do this rather easily and not just by changing out the background image. You can learn how to design a WordPress template or you can go find one you like for free or relatively cheap (under $100 and often under $50). Themes are practically plug and play. Even if you find a theme you really like but need to tweek, if you know HTML, CSS and PHP you can tweak themes you buy easily as well.

I'm like you where I used to hand-code way back in the day, but that isn't my job or specialty. For work I like the kind of flexibility WordPress offers and for any home stuff, I would rather spend time updating a personal site with posts than dinking around on the HTML and CSS. The cost-benefit to me just isn't worth it anymore when I can do 96%-100% of what I want through templates and plugins.

[joepublic]

As someone who codes static web sites w/HTML and CSS, and also uses both MODx and WordPress for sites, I'd say that there are times when each of them is the best choice depending on the needs at hand.

You do need to understand WP's template based system in order to effectively develop highly customized sites, but you can also setup a simple blog in a few minutes with any one of thousands of available themes without having to know much about the templates at all. With any system that allows for blog posting and comments, the time you save in not implementing the entire CMS and blogging system is more than worth the time required to understand the templates.

Also, once you understand the templates, you can do very powerful things with them.

[Photonerd]

My earlier point was not that WP isn't a good product, only that the perception that "oh, it's template-based, so it will be easy for me to set up a professional web site" is a false perception. Getting good at working with WP themes and customizing things is just as complicated as say, learning how to use all of Dreamweaver's layout features and coding features. If all you want is a template so you can have a basic presence online, it's fantastic and won't take that long to learn. If you want to customize a WP theme so that your site has its own look and has custom functionality, it will take a while to learn... just like any other traditional web tech. Bottom line: you still have to know HTML and CSS and know how to dig through code and change things if you want a custom site.

[robertRoss]

WordPress is a great Blog CMS and really it comes down to how you like to work. I can't stand the template system so I avoid using it. I like to use standard CSS/XHTML templates that are not riddled with system specific PHP.

We use WordPress for quick "packaged" sites that require little if any custom work in design and function. For all other sites we use MODx because we take to the fact that it doesn't have a templating system per se, just templates that re standard XHTML within which you can put some MODx tags like [[*pagetitle]] or [[*content]]. Being able to customize the backend interface for clients has been great as well.

We haven't looked at Drupal in awhile and as for Joomla, we'll never work with it again.

[RhymingDesigner]

Small- and medium-sized companies are increasingly interested in the ability to maintain their own website. WordPress is perfect for that.

Is the client likely to get a site with every "cool and trendy" feature splashed on every WordPress page? No, but that's a good thing if you care more about communication than the wow factor. Are themes capable of stunning modification? Yes, if you start with an excellent theme (probably not a free one). Is there a learning curve? Yes—what did you expect?

The bottom line (this coming from a designer) is that clients need to start with a solid structure that takes into account their specific needs and then combine it with an apt look and feel. For a professional-looking website, nothing less will do.

As for the ability to "even have different themes for different post authors," it's statements like this that ensure designers job security, never mind the bad dreams I'll be having tonight trying to erase that image.

[KarlJohnson]

Photonerd, on 30 July 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

My perspective as someone who used to hand-code their HTML and CSS and recently switched to WP as the "new savior" of web design, is that it's a PITA. If you want to make anything resembling a custom look, digging through their HTML and making changes is FAR more complicated than just making something yourself because you have to sit there and look through all the code and tags and try to figure out which parts do what on which template before you can change anything. WP is NOT significantly easier than any other solution UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that.

With WP 3.0 and the ease creating child themes, I can in short order completely customize a new site so it looks nothing like the original theme. Word Press 3 is like any new way of doing things. I had a limited html background prior to starting my current position and I dove in head first to WP (back at 2.5) I'm not quite comfortable with all of the changes in 3.0 yet but it is really a matter of "who moved my cheese". When you get proficient at one way of doing things, it often takes longer (if ever) to become as proficient using a new method.

The beauty of WordPress is not so much in the design of the site (although it can be quite complex if desired) but in the ability for people to get their information out quicker.

[tee1up]

I have tried to train clients on Dreamweaver, Contribute, modx, concrete5, typepad and a few others. Nothing compares to the ease of use and functionality that I can give my clients with a customized wordpress website. They do not have to look like a blog, they are easy to update, they are reliable and as long as you use little care and check your work when adding plugins or new functionality they become pretty fool-proof.

[dazweeja]

MikeBlakemanw3t3, on 30 July 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 30 July 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

My perspective as someone who used to hand-code their HTML and CSS and recently switched to WP as the "new savior" of web design, is that it's a PITA. If you want to make anything resembling a custom look, digging through their HTML and making changes is FAR more complicated than just making something yourself because you have to sit there and look through all the code and tags and try to figure out which parts do what on which template before you can change anything. WP is NOT significantly easier than any other solution UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that.

Easier? Not necessarily at first. Once you get your themes setup, it is the most powerful and customizable back end system provided at no cost that I have seen. All you have to do is get used to customizing and designing WP themes and you have a system that works great for clients to maintain their updates. So while you are correct that WP is easy when using default themes and plugins, and not otherwise, if you know how to customize a theme, it can be really powerful.

Obviously you've never used Drupal. Wordpress is easier to use for clients and beginner developers but it's information architecture is the pits and in terms of being powerful and customizable, it's not even in the same ballpark as Drupal. A good choice if you want a simple blog though.

[ridddder]

dazweeja, on 01 August 2010 - 05:21 PM, said:

MikeBlakemanw3t3, on 30 July 2010 - 05:49 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 30 July 2010 - 05:02 AM, said:

My perspective as someone who used to hand-code their HTML and CSS and recently switched to WP as the "new savior" of web design, is that it's a PITA. If you want to make anything resembling a custom look, digging through their HTML and making changes is FAR more complicated than just making something yourself because you have to sit there and look through all the code and tags and try to figure out which parts do what on which template before you can change anything. WP is NOT significantly easier than any other solution UNLESS you are OK with sticking to the look of your template and just swapping out background images and things like that.

Easier? Not necessarily at first. Once you get your themes setup, it is the most powerful and customizable back end system provided at no cost that I have seen. All you have to do is get used to customizing and designing WP themes and you have a system that works great for clients to maintain their updates. So while you are correct that WP is easy when using default themes and plugins, and not otherwise, if you know how to customize a theme, it can be really powerful.

Obviously you've never used Drupal. Wordpress is easier to use for clients and beginner developers but it's information architecture is the pits and in terms of being powerful and customizable, it's not even in the same ballpark as Drupal. A good choice if you want a simple blog though.

To each his own, I have learned just like the rest of us going from WYSIWYG programs, to straight coding in CSS, perl, DHTML, XTHML, and now php. I taught myself to do it all by example, reading, and trial an error. I have found that word press has a rich user base, tons of users, many of which are more than helpful for a free lance designer. While there are perhaps more expensive solutions to problems, or sites, or even shopping cart systems, and if I could never, never again work with programmers from russia, I will be a happy camper. This is how it is with tools, some of us love them or hate them, but it is just that preference. Either it works well with the way you choose or not, that is what we all choose.

I for one don't want to spend hours making my own theme, so I buy themes, and set theme up for clients. I customize where needed, and add requested features. Yes I remember using the block system in php nuke, which was dreadful, and I remember setting sites where you had to test every element in all the browsers on the net. The best part about a diverse, and powerful content management system is simply cross platform compatibility, access to powerful features,customization, and a large installed base of users who provide support.

For these reasons, I believe wordpress just works for me While I value and respect everyone elses opinion, I do not have to agree....That is what is great thing about opinions, everyone has one, good or bad we all can accept that, and say....coool, then on to the next challenge.

[jlynn628]

Has anyone gotten an existing wordpress 3.0 to work inside of Dreamweaver cs5? I have been thru tutorial after tutorial on how to set up wordpress in dw cs5 but all start with a new site that is created inside dw. I have a site already and cant get it to display in dreamweaver. this seems to be a common problem in the adobe dw cs5 development forum but I cant get a straight answer. I am starting to think that it is not possible. As of 5 minutes ago I did the dw cs5 update and it looks like I am back a square one with my configurations. any help would be greatly appreciated. even if it is a simple yes or no.

The only success I had (before update) was to go to the remote wordpress login and export my site. Then to go to the local wordpress installation and import the files I just exported from the remote. This populated the database with all of my posts/pages/media but not the theme files. Those I got from the files dialog box by connecting to the remote server then copying them to the right folder. this loaded my theme but not the custom changes I had made including the sidebar which displays completely differnet things than the ready made theme. So then I copied the files from the remote wordpress page editor and copied them over my local files. Still no luck.

What gives!!!