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App sandboxing risks eroding the Mac's identity

#1 User is offline   Macworld 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:01 AM

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#2 User is offline   noibs 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:33 AM

Beautiful article. I couldn't agree more.

Early in June, I bit the bullet and purchased an iPad 2. A month later I concluded that while it was a best toy I had ever seen, I would sell it because it was just too difficult doing productive tasks with it. I ended up with an 11" MacBook Air. The build-in sandboxing in iOS made working with a single file in multiple apps way too difficult. And, of course, file management in general was probably worse than in DOS v1. I vividly remember the first version of the Finder in 1984, and file management there was light years ahead of file management in iOS.

For example, on the Mac, I might work with the same graphics file in Acorn, GIMP and even in Preview. It's easy and it helps me use the right tool for the right job. However, sandboxing, carried to a level of iOS, would make this much more difficult.

Then, throw in all the other little frustrations of Lion--autosave and versions that you can't turn on in the Apple Apps that have it, the stupid checkbox that I have to turn off EVERY TIME I shut down or restart, dumbed down Address Book and Calendar (just so they work the same as in iOS--and the trend isn't good for people who are quick with software and who want to do the most in the shortest period of time.
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#3 User is offline   thubsch 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:15 AM

Kudos!

Andy, you are not quite an innocent child, and Apple isn't walking around quite entirely without clothes, but there is a chilling sense of convergence in that direction... on Apple's side. Perhaps they are taking the "computer for the rest of us" too far in pandering to the lowest common denominator? The iPad v.1 and 2 are both useless to me, as they expressly do not permit programming environments including the one I use most, TeX, for technical typesetting of my research in science. (It doesn't help that the exclusive software distribution framework is in conflict with TeX's very open license.) So far, the leonine version of Mac OS still lets me do all the things I've been doing for the past quarter of a century, but it does bring up a creepy feeling...

BTW, in the 2nd point, line 1, you probably meant "has" -> "have" ... blame it on Lion's automatic text correction? :-)
Cheers, Tristan
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#4 User is offline   Wiggin 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:43 AM

Haven't you heard, Apple doesn't sell computers anymore. They sell appliances. They took the word "computer" out of the company name several years ago. And now they are taking it out of their products. Like iOS, the Mac is going to be a device that simply "plays" your apps, just like your blu-ray player plays your movies. Why would you expect it to do anything else?

:-(
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#5 User is offline   FlippinNoras3t3 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:47 AM

Add the App store and iCloud into the mix and your subheading says it all: Mac OS X is moving towards consumers and away from creative producers; that's where the money is.

This means that those of us that hark from the old days and see a computer much like a motorbike engine - to be tinkered with, supped up and customised either out of fun or need - are going to require a new unix-based platform to move to within in the next five years. Whose going to make it and the box to run it on (Samsung maybe???).
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#6 User is offline   SteveMarseille 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:54 AM

Um, the App Store is not compulsory. You want an app that isn't sandboxed? Get it from the developer from their own site or another online location.
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#7 User is offline   alterbentzion 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:03 AM

This has been coming down the pipeline for years now. Image Capture hasn't shipped with an AppleScript library for several OS versions now. I only discovered this recently, when I wanted to write a script to allow me to scan images directly into container fields in FileMaker. :-(
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#8 User is offline   umbilicus 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:05 AM

"HyperCard opened up vast new pool of developer talent and demonstrated that programming is a creative art."

Hypercard? Really? Most stacks I ever saw were cutesy little file management routines, beautiful only in the eyes of of their doting progenitors. And news flash, we creatives are mostly not software geeks out here, Andy. I've been a Mac user for nearly twenty years. It's been at the center of my daily architectural work (which I consider pretty creative) and I'm a fairly sophisticated user doing all my own software support. Yet I've never found the need to bust out Apple Script or the Automator. Sure there are repetitive tasks in my work but these are well taken care of by routines baked into the pro software I use, and I'd venture to say this true for the vast majority of creatives who use their Macs as an essential work tool.
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#9 User is offline   meta 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:29 AM

So true. After 24 years as a Mac user, I find myself investigating Linux. The movie editing software isn't as slick as iMovie, but most of the other day-to-day apps I use have adequate alternatives.
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#10 User is offline   alterbentzion 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 07:38 AM

View Postumbilicus, on 02 October 2011 - 07:05 AM, said:

"HyperCard opened up vast new pool of developer talent and demonstrated that programming is a creative art."

Hypercard? Really? Most stacks I ever saw were cutesy little file management routines, beautiful only in the eyes of of their doting progenitors...


Yes, really! At the seminary I attended in the late eighties, someone wrote a stack which dynamically computed daily prayer times based on the date, our latitude, and our longitude - and presented the schedule in a print-ready layout. The same programmer also created a stack to help the dorm supervisor arrange for weekend hospitality for the students - and, again, could present that info in a print-ready layout.
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#11 User is offline   bhrocks12 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:21 AM

View Postnoibs, on 02 October 2011 - 05:33 AM, said:

Beautiful article. I couldn't agree more.

Early in June, I bit the bullet and purchased an iPad 2. A month later I concluded that while it was a best toy I had ever seen, I would sell it because it was just too difficult doing productive tasks with it. I ended up with an 11" MacBook Air. The build-in sandboxing in iOS made working with a single file in multiple apps way too difficult. And, of course, file management in general was probably worse than in DOS v1. I vividly remember the first version of the Finder in 1984, and file management there was light years ahead of file management in iOS.

For example, on the Mac, I might work with the same graphics file in Acorn, GIMP and even in Preview. It's easy and it helps me use the right tool for the right job. However, sandboxing, carried to a level of iOS, would make this much more difficult.

Then, throw in all the other little frustrations of Lion--autosave and versions that you can't turn on in the Apple Apps that have it, the stupid checkbox that I have to turn off EVERY TIME I shut down or restart, dumbed down Address Book and Calendar (just so they work the same as in iOS--and the trend isn't good for people who are quick with software and who want to do the most in the shortest period of time.


I understand what you are saying. To be honest, I miss Snow Leopard. It was a fantastic OS and probably the last "computer OS." Lion is very gimmicky. I like it, but it has its annoyances due to its want to resemble iOS. However, to the average consumer: everything is gold. They love the gimmicks of LaunchPad and autosave. Most don't see how the current version of iCal was a cosmetic upgrade over Snow Leopard that is more limiting. That's because Apple is appealing to the larger population who love these gimmicks. You are obviously an experienced Mac user. Unfortunately, you and I are in the minority. I say minority because I sold my iPad 2 for a MacBook Air as well. iPad was fun but has many years to go before I can say it is a productive tool. iPad has iWork and GarageBand, but needs more horsepower so that these apps match their counterparts on the Mac. At best, the iPad is decent for editing basic files you start on your Mac. People are loving their iPads. And good for them. I'm ruling out an iPad in my future . . .
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#12 User is offline   Aquarius 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:40 AM

Excellent article Andy (and Jason's article that you linked to is also right on the money). FWIW, I just want to point out that there is a 21st-century equivalent of HyperCard. It is SuperCard and you can find more info at supercard.us if you (or anyone else reading this) are interested. I use this product to write my software apps at yenco.com. I don't know why this wonderful tool gets overlooked.
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#13 User is offline   Goflorp 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:09 AM

Hi, long time podcast fan of you Andy and I must state that PC users never USE their PC's for anything.

They take loads of photos, which they store in a folder (a digital version of a shoebox in your closet).
They never get the idea of storing EVERY address you got in adressbook, because a PC is not "safe" - why store a lot of stuff in it when you have to nuke&pave the machine every quarter...

"converted" a friend recently; he ha major issues with;

"What do you mean with No Registry-maintenance, No Defragmentation?"
"Why store all phone numbers etc in adressbook?"
"What do you mean I shouldn't care which folder contains my pics?"
"You say I can order books with photos, from within the program?"
"Email a PDF to work and use the work printer? Huh?"
"No viruses, you must be joking?!"

It's a slowly "aha-experience" for his family....every week now I get a call, we discuss how things are...
It's moving, they put together a book with qute babies etc for the grandparents... That ended the sloppy 4"x6" printouts with thumbs all over. Now the elderly have a nice book to show.

He also set up a offline backup (my advice) and a TM-backup locally (his idea)...

I feel that ha slowly awakens into some "Computing 2.0" from a steady windows-sleep.
they become active, they USE the computer for producing stuff. The wife applied for a job, she wrote a very good looking letter and CV etc in Pages, had it all sent in as a PDF ("Email PDF file...") - she got the job!

My conclusion from 30 years of computing is that PC users never do stuff with their equipment, they mostly attend to maintenance, virus scanning etc while Macusers produce tons of fun, good looking stuff all the time.
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#14 User is offline   macnews 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:11 AM

Thank you Andy for a wonderful walk down memory lane. Hypercard and now Automator are wonderful parts of OSX which I seriously hope Apple doesn't do away with. So many things can and have been done with those technologies.
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