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The App Culture

#15 User is offline   hikethru08 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 12:28 PM

I love the Mac App Store.
The comment about the Mac App Store turning into "a wasteland of arcade games and one-trick-pony" apps is laughable. I am a developer, and every app I have purchased so far has provided a significant capability that made my job easier. Many useful apps really do not need more than the Sandbox provides, and for the technically higher risk applications (take VMWare for example), I just go buy it from the vendor, no big deal.
The great thing about the app store is that I am willing to experiment with apps from unknown developers because there is an element of "trust" associated with the app store that does not exist with downloads from random internet sites.
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#16 User is offline   umbilicus 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 01:39 PM

View Posthikethru08, on 02 October 2011 - 12:28 PM, said:

I love the Mac App Store.
The comment about the Mac App Store turning into "a wasteland of arcade games and one-trick-pony" apps is laughable. I am a developer, and every app I have purchased so far has provided a significant capability that made my job easier. Many useful apps really do not need more than the Sandbox provides, and for the technically higher risk applications (take VMWare for example), I just go buy it from the vendor, no big deal.
The great thing about the app store is that I am willing to experiment with apps from unknown developers because there is an element of "trust" associated with the app store that does not exist with downloads from random internet sites.


Agreed. As a veteran of Tucows and various other shareware sites (including Apple's) from back in the day it's a relief not to have to worry about badly implemented third-party software causing me serious system-wide grief.
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#17 User is offline   SHRIKEE 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 02:25 PM

Uhm... Maybe your friends and family need some schooling in macs then... Or are they just scared of extra software?

I've worked 4 years for apple oriented companies, mostly in customer service and repairs on macs. And ALL macs i've encountered that weren't new out the box had add-on software on it and usually not only boxed software too.

Downloading and installing apps has been commonplace for at least a few years for joe user. Atleast in my experience...
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#18 User is offline   heisetax 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 03:18 PM

I have nearly 500 programs downloaded on the iTunes App Store for my iPad & iPod Touch. Of those apps only about 6 are paid for apps. We are about to purchase 3 drawing programs for my wife's use with our grand kids. That will be about $20 more. Still making our total iTunes purchases under $100. Not much here for developers to make much money on.

The only thing that I have downloaded from the Mac App Store is Mac OS 10.7 Lion. I do not have it in my plans to make any more purchases there. I do not like having restrictions on the programs that I purchase. Many times I prefer to deal directly with the software developer. Other times it is a group of programs that are in a special deals. Or maybe an upgrade. Most of these are either a download & a mailed out dvd or just a download.

So if the Mac developer believes that they'll make more money from me if they are on the Mac App store they will be greatly mistaken. If they continue to make the great programs for my Mac & those of other Mac Users that we can purchase separately then I see nothing wrong with having another choice of where to purchase Mac software, namely the Mac App Store. Like many I am afraid that Apple will keep getting more & more greedy & insist on all Mac software to come from the Mac App Store so that they can collect their 30% Apple tax. And we thought that a 5-10% sales tax was high.

Being a 27+ year Mac User I know that I can probably keep my curent Macs or those that will be purchased before any mission critical changes are made from Apple to run for the rest of the time I need my Macs for business. But even at my age that may be another 10-20 years.

As I always say coice is good. This means that unlike the iTunes App Store the current status of the Mac App Store is just another choice. But if our choice is degraded to be me no choice unless we choose to jail break our Mac device then it will be a bad, sad day for the Mac User.

We need to keep in touch with are many trusted great Mac 3rd party software developers & be sure they know through our purchasing of their programs & emailing them from sources other than the Mac App Store. We have to vote with our billfolds. Just make it no sales through the Mac App Store & more & more sales through the many other sources we have available. I know that I'd rather give the developer the 30% Apple Tax than give it to Apple.
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#19 User is offline   klahanas 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 04:40 PM

I've commented like this before, on the iOS restrictions and policies, but it's now showing up on the Mac too. Apple, in wanting to control the experience, has more or less become the IT department for it's users. This is both good and bad. Controlling the experience down to what software you use and where you get it (iOS, but apparently coming to Mac slowly) may be useful for less technical or less interested users. It is a value added feature if you want it. To user's who want to be their own "IT department" it's a problem. I've always resented my corporate IT setting policies for what I can and cannot use, but hey, it's their machine so it's their right. On my OWN machine however, you better back off.

It comes back to this. Experiences should be offered and not imposed.

This post has been edited by klahanas: 02 October 2011 - 04:41 PM

"One likes to believe in the freedom of music,
But glittering prizes and endless compromises
Shatter the illusion of integrity."

-Rush
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#20 User is offline   outdevo 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:39 PM

It really stinks that 1Password has some bizarre limitations in it's App Store version. Let's hope this gets resolved.
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#21 User is offline   northcob 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 05:58 PM

I am in complete agreement with this article. Compulsory sandboxing on the MAc will be disastrous.

The whole point of the original Xerox Star interface and it derivatives in the Lisa and the Mac was to move to a document centric model for the user. Documents could be filed by topic not type as in a manual system. The user just double clicked to open without bothering about the app that created them.

I can accept sand boxing on phones and even other mobile devices, but this effort to compartmentalise documents on a general purpose computer does not make sense however much it improves security and stability.
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#22 User is offline   KPOM 

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:52 PM

View Postmanatee, on 02 October 2011 - 06:21 AM, said:

The main thing I don't like about iOS is the inability of multiple apps to open and edit the same data file (like a document.) I live with it though, because there's so much else that I really like. If they force Mac apps to abide by the same access limitations -- despite the presence of a fully exposed file system, then I'm likely to take my business elsewhere. Windows 7 is not bad, and 8 looks good too. I'd probably continue using MacBook Airs, but with OS X left dormant and Bootcamp set to boot to Windows. I'd stick with the iOS platform, but I have different expectations regarding flexibility of use for a platform with a full-featured operating system. I prefer to take responsibility for the security and allow the application developers give me all the power and flexibility they can build into their products.


However, Microsoft is heading in a similar direction with Windows 8. Metro UI applications will only be available from the Windows Store. All other applications will run in the "Desktop" mode that clearly is transitional (it seems pretty clear that ultimately Microsoft wants the Metro UI to be the only UI - at least in the "Home" versions of Windows).

This post has been edited by KPOM: 02 October 2011 - 06:52 PM

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#23 User is offline   HeinrichsJM 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:47 PM

I would like to express my appreciation to those who have uncovered these problem with Apple's Application purveyance. I had been completely unaware of these, and such revelations will undoubtably force increases in my consumption of alcohol until I am able to assuage the despair. Fortunately, I can trust that such will be eschewed by more reputable corporations, Google and/or Microsoft among them. If only Apple had instituted a proper corporate non-evil doctrine.

Thank you, thank you, thank you
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#24 User is offline   BradPDX 

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  Posted 02 October 2011 - 10:09 PM

Jason mentions the most important aspect of this story at the beginning:

"I'd wager that the majority of people who've bought a new Mac in the past five years have never downloaded any add-on software for their computer."

So we have:
1. Power users (the type that read MacWorld) - important, but relatively small in number. They buy all sort of applications and tweak all sorts of things on their computers. They understand technology and take risks.
2. Everybody else - huge in number, who hardly buy or update applications at all. Scared to death of it, frankly.

The App Store is aimed at group 2. It's only optional for those in group 1. But for those group 2 people, it's a bonanza, a new discovery. These people will do more and buy more because "apps" are now easy and safe.

Group 1 may be small, but it's important. I don't see why Apple would shut them out - but they may opt to make group 2 the "default" assumption - as Dillinger said, "that's where the money is". Some upcoming system default could make sure that all apps come (safely) from the App Store, and that would suit a millions of people just fine. Enter an Admin password and change the setting to allow applications from anywhere.

Group 1 will still be around, but they will no longer be the assumed default user. I think that's smart.
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#25 User is offline   AdamC 

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  Posted 03 October 2011 - 12:28 AM

I believe Apple is not that stupid as you assumed (look at FCPX now it is becoming like the pro version and not the consumer one which all the hacks are screaming at), I am no programmer and if the programmer is worth his salt will do a deep reaching one before turning it into a lite one.

And for the geeky ones go for the programmer at their sites and leave the secured ones to the consumer at the app store.
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#26 User is offline   anvitasilva 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 01:04 AM

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#27 User is offline   Danielsw 

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  Posted 03 October 2011 - 02:26 AM

All this fear and distrust of the future of the App Store and sandboxing is akin to adolescent knee-jerk reactions to parents imposing "restrictions." If you never got it that it was "for your own good" and went ahead and got addicted to smoking, drinking, and even contracted STDs, then you won't appreciate that Apple's intentions were good as well.

I use Adobe Creative Suite and Luxology Modo as my major work tools. Neither has mentioned having App Store versions, much less Lion features such as full screen windows. Abode said it would take a look at Lion and incorporate those features that made sense.

I think these heightened security measures will apply mainly to small and free and "arcade" apps, for the fact that they typically come from smaller developers, some of which may have assorted nefarious intents and purposes. And so Apple won't allow them through its security process and quality checkpoints.

What's wrong with that? Absolutely nothing.

Would Apple be foolish enough not to allow Adobe or Luxology to continue to bypass the App Store at some future doom and gloomy date? Absolutely not.

Your parents weren't wrong in trying to point you in the right direction for your lives, and neither is Apple wrong for trying to get you kids to play nice in your sandboxes.

This post has been edited by Jason Snell: 03 October 2011 - 03:20 PM
Reason for edit: Namecalling is not allowed.

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#28 User is offline   Graphos 

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 03:45 AM

View Postbrobdingnagian, on 02 October 2011 - 05:36 AM, said:

All the disenfranchised developers need to do is to band together to create an easy, attractive, and reliable alternative to the app store. They might well even attract many of the developers whose products are still acceptable to Apple. These developers have the skill, now they need the will.


Kind of like Bodega?
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