[Petew]

It will be the way of the future but my experience so far is that I don't like it. Never seen so many bugs and nuissances after Leopard. Many problems were introduced from Snow Leopard on and haven't been properly addressed.

[Stewsburntmonkey]

 WojtechWow, on 18 May 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Well, I really regret having to upgrade to Lion. Snow Leopard is rock solid and works like it should. I hate the full-screen animation, the "save version" instead of "save as" (I used to scan documents on Snow Leopard in preview.app and save the first one as PDF and add the others as following pages - worked like a charm - it is impossible to do in Lion in preview.app and many other things on Lion. The only thing I love is the new mail.app And Lion is slower than Snow Leopard on the same machine - learnt it the hard way

I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to do in the PDF example, but you can certainly add pages to a PDF in Lion's Preview and you can replicate the "Save As..." functionality by using the "Duplicate" option.

[La Porta]

 hmurchison, on 18 May 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

 La Porta, on 18 May 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

I completely disagree with the statement regarding the "Share" button. That is one of the most infuriating features that I know of. Recently, on my Honeymoon, I attempted to upload pictures from my camera into my iPad. First, the photos app had no way to batch-edit pictures at all: this necessitated purchasing iPhoto. Upon trying to email these pictures, it was exceedingly frustrating attempting to work with groups of pictures because the interface is so limited: there is no way to copy and/or move files, no file structure, nothing to help me organize things. Once I had that, I attempted to upload the photos to Facebook, which summarily failed. When I attempted to re-upload, I was given a message that there were duplicates already uploaded, and did I want to stop or write over these. There was NO option to skip the duplicates and write the other files.

At the end of all this frustration, I simply waited until I got home, fired up my Mac, copied the pictures, and uploaded them....all under five minutes. The fact that Apple wants to make it's computers less user-friendly and dumb them down simply because iOS users are "used" to it is a terrible thing.

The Share button is accurately described. It's for quickly sharing data. The premise of the sharing button wasn't to batch edit and upload multiple photos. I could use a screwdriver in lieu of a hammer and be upset about the end result but in the end you use the right tool for the job. For your needs iPhoto wasn't that tool and it's not really designed to be that tool..yet. Mountain Lion makes things more simple...provided you are using the tools in the way they were designed.

I don't disagree that share wasn't designed to do that. I apologize for my earlier post being somewhat rant-ish and incoherent. What I was trying to illustrate is that to do what I did with my Mac is either agonizing or impossible with my iPad. That being said, an iPad is and iPad, and a Mac is a Mac, both with different capabilities. What I don't want is for Apple to suddenly say "hey, the Share feature from iOS is good enough, and more people know how to use it, so let's just strip out the full Mac functionality because it's confusing and most new people won't know how to use it." That is my fear.

[hmurchison]

 La Porta, on 18 May 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

I don't disagree that share wasn't designed to do that. I apologize for my earlier post being somewhat rant-ish and incoherent. What I was trying to illustrate is that to do what I did with my Mac is either agonizing or impossible with my iPad. That being said, an iPad is and iPad, and a Mac is a Mac, both with different capabilities. What I don't want is for Apple to suddenly say "hey, the Share feature from iOS is good enough, and more people know how to use it, so let's just strip out the full Mac functionality because it's confusing and most new people won't know how to use it." That is my fear.

I did feel your pain and I didn't quite capture that empathy in my response. My apologies. I'm excited about iOS 6 because I think the iPad is ready to move on to more tasks like what you wanted to accomplish. iOS isn't quite there yet and I don't think we're going to see some apps hit iOS (like Aperture) until some of these file management needs are covered. My apologies again for the brashness.

[frd750]

 Currentpoint, on 18 May 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

Respectfully disagree. "Taking the best of iOS and adding it to OS X will not weaken the desktop platform, as some have suggested"... it already has. Many refer to Snow Leopard as the most productive Mac OS to date, and companies like Adobe and others appear to not be supporting the new features (i.e auto-save.)

I agree that sharing the features that proved successful is beneficial, but dumbing down the Mac OS for a consistent user experience is not the answer. Keep in mind that all this iOS stuff is being built on the Mac OS. I also don't buy the old numbers game and market share argument. I've heard that for years between Mac and Windows, and it also applies between Mac and iOS.

I love both the Mac OS and iOS, but there is a reason why Apple has two operating systems. The same reason we don't have touch-screen iMacs... yet.

There is a simple solution, that Apple refuses to take, make the IOS additions optional, if you don't like them turn them off. The worst of the changes can be reversed by using apps like Deeper or Lion Tweaks, which are readily available donation ware. Unfortunately Apple apparantly doesn't like that and the latest OS7.4 took me back to the infernal linen log-in screen.

Come on Apple don't be so touchy, many of us don't like the idea of a $2000 iPhone with a 21inch screen.

[toolznglue]

If Apple wants to converge OS X and iOS, it ought to start by converging the applications. Example - I can set up a series of mailboxes, etc. when using Mail with OS X, but Mail for iOS doesn't support creating mailboxes. When I use the calendar app for OS X, I can set up an event that occurs on, for example, the first Monday of each month. While the IOS version of calendar allows me to set up repeating events, it does not allow all of the options that the OS X version does.

Apple should also allow me to delete any of their default apps on an iOS device that I want. I've no interest whatever in things like Game Center and would just as soon delete it than have it occupy space.

And, although it may be the antithesis of their idea of how an iOS device should be used, the closer their iOS devices approach becoming a real computer, the more they need a real file system rather than having each App manage its own files. That idea may have made sense for the first generation smart phone when they were just feeling their way (I seriously doubt that Apple had any idea how pervasive their iOS devices would become) but does not make sense today.

[RajDyal]

 VitaminCM, on 18 May 2012 - 10:41 AM, said:

I can't believe that nobody sees the real motivation. MONEY & CONTROL
How do you get apps onto iOS? Only one way - through the App store. What happens when you buy and iOS app? Apple gets 30%. (30^% of $4.99 is nice but.....)
Now picture a world where OSX is similarly locked down. You want to buy Photoshop? Apple gets 30% of $600. That's REALLY nice.
You want to make an OSX app that steps on Apple's toes? Rejected!!!
Get ready to figure out how to jailbreak your Mac now.

They already have a Mac App store.. and I don't think that has anything to do with the iOS/OS X transition.
Its just a digital distribution model.. I actually prefer it so that I don't have to store DVDs, I can just go and redownload an application.
The majority of applications on the Mac App store are cheaper than the retail distribution model because theirs no packaging/shipping/markup.

[Stewsburntmonkey]

 frd750, on 18 May 2012 - 12:47 PM, said:

There is a simple solution, that Apple refuses to take, make the IOS additions optional, if you don't like them turn them off. The worst of the changes can be reversed by using apps like Deeper or Lion Tweaks, which are readily available donation ware. Unfortunately Apple apparantly doesn't like that and the latest OS7.4 took me back to the infernal linen log-in screen.

Come on Apple don't be so touchy, many of us don't like the idea of a $2000 iPhone with a 21inch screen.

Which iOS additions are not optional?

[hmurchison]

 toolznglue, on 18 May 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

If Apple wants to converge OS X and iOS, it ought to start by converging the applications. Example - I can set up a series of mailboxes, etc. when using Mail with OS X, but Mail for iOS doesn't support creating mailboxes. When I use the calendar app for OS X, I can set up an event that occurs on, for example, the first Monday of each month. While the IOS version of calendar allows me to set up repeating events, it does not allow all of the options that the OS X version does.

Apple should also allow me to delete any of their default apps on an iOS device that I want. I've no interest whatever in things like Game Center and would just as soon delete it than have it occupy space.

And, although it may be the antithesis of their idea of how an iOS device should be used, the closer their iOS devices approach becoming a real computer, the more they need a real file system rather than having each App manage its own files. That idea may have made sense for the first generation smart phone when they were just feeling their way (I seriously doubt that Apple had any idea how pervasive their iOS devices would become) but does not make sense today.

Mailboxes are often a limit of the mail server. Depending on your email vendor and their support for mobile devices you may see folders or not.

I think at the least the ability to "hide" apps like you can hid the store in the Settings are would nicely clean things up.

Filesystem isn't needed IMO. What's needed is a better way of sharing documents between iOS apps. iCloud will eventually be the filesystem that people need because it presents a pervasive way to safely store documents and data that is low friction.

[mrgrumpy]

I have been fairly faithful about upgrading my OS. However that stopped with Lion. I have 10.7 on my work machine and 10.6 on my home machine. I have no intention of upgrading my home machine. I have actually come to dislike 10.7 intensely. That has never happened before. It is, frankly, too Windows like. I've had to run terminal scripts to turn off cruft that was driving me crazy. Unless Apple reverts back to basics, I daresay 10.6 will be my last upgrade.

[DocNo]

 Macworld, on 18 May 2012 - 09:16 AM, said:

Taking the best of iOS and adding it to OS X will not weaken the desktop platform, as some have suggested; the features being added are those that have proven effective on mobile devices. If anything, this cross-pollination will improve both platforms, and simplify tasks for those who use both platforms to get things done. And, in the end, the iOSification of OS X may be the catalyst that allows Apple to take Mac sales to a new level.

Bravo - someone gets it...

[DocNo]

 Stewsburntmonkey, on 18 May 2012 - 11:00 AM, said:

What has been dumbed down in OSX with Lion and Mountain Lion?

Good luck trying for logic with these threads.... If you remember that all "different" is bad, you'll do just fine

[TheFriendlyGrizzly]

 bazaarsoft, on 18 May 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Apple has a serious (and growing) issue to address - namely quality. Mac OS has been suffering ever since Snow Leopard - frequent hangs, crashes, lost settings, etc., have been on the rise. Xcode is the biggest mess, rivaled only by iTunes. This is something that concerns me as a longtime Mac user, developer, and shareholder. So much focus has been placed on iOS within the company that I'm afraid some fundamentals have gone by the wayside. Snow Leopard was a rock. Lion is still buggy and they're talking Mountain Lion now.

And developers are stuck with the big bloated crashy mess that is Xcode that we must use to develop. You heard it here - if Apple doesn't get it's quality house in order things will begin to go downhill for both platforms.

I see this as Apple slowly but steadily migrating from being a computer company to being one that provides entertainment devices and expensive telephones. It would not surprise me in the slightest to see Apple completely out of the computer business within the next five to 10 years, if not sooner.

To me, Lion's "improvements" are not improvements. Bring back Save, and Save As... rather than this Save A Version and Duplicate nonsense. The newer model of the address book either does not have the ability to add names to groups, or the instructions to do so are missing. Apple Mail: is Apple doing their level best to make it the ugliest and clutziest email client in the world?

Many complained about MobileMe, but at least I could use iDisk to store files that were not part of the "i" suite of programs. That, and my calendar categories are now a jumble I have been trying to untangle for a long time. With MobileMe, and .Mac before it, things worked fine, if somewhat slowly at times. As it stands now, I have iCloud and a DropBox account where all I needed before was MobileMe.

To Apple: either get serious about making OS/X stable, conventional, and intuitive, and make iCloud useful, or just tell us you want to make yuppie toys and leave us who work with computers behind. Those of us with work to do will migrate to other platforms while you cater to the Lexus and Rolex status seekers.

[DocNo]

 WojtechWow, on 18 May 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

I hate the full-screen animation, the "save version" instead of "save as" (I used to scan documents on Snow Leopard in preview.app and save the first one as PDF and add the others as following pages - worked like a charm - it is impossible to do in Lion in preview.app and many other things on Lion.

I do agree - this is probably the one thing in Lion that drives me crazy. I did discover in Preview, the export command will work just like Save As if you use it that way. Give it a try!