[AndreiDica]

Penzi, on 22 June 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 22 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

VitaminCM, on 22 June 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

I've been using Macs for about 4 years now. Before that I was a PC user who built my own machines (mostly due to dissatisfaction with what the big box stores had available).
I just got a new MacBook Pro and upgraded the ram to 16GB (Apple will only sell you 8). I put in my own SSD (Saved a ton and got a better one than they sell.) I replaced the pointless DVD drive with an internal 1TB hard drive. It took me longer to shop for the parts than the actual installation took. I got a better, faster machine than Apple would sell me and saved $790 in the process.
I guess what I'm saying is, Stop whining and upgrade your own damn machines!!! If you really need a Mac "PRO", you should have a little bit of technical skills and intelligence. Buy better, faster, cheaper parts and install them yourself. It's really not that hard.
Go to Google
Type in "how to upgrade mac pro motherboard"
Find tons of good tutorials
Stop waiting around for Apple (or Dell, HP, etc.) to chew up the food and spit it into your mouth. You're not a baby bird.
The few hours that you invest will be recovered in improved performance.

By their own admissions the Hackintosh thing is a hobby at best. The machines are never able to stay current with the latest OS and updates, and require frequent tweaking to work well. Hackintosh is not the answer. Apple getting its &@^! together IS.

He is not advocating Hackintoshes, he is advocating updating MacPros on your own, with "aftermarket" parts. Such as USB3 boards, SSDs, etc...

I'm sorry to inform you but he is indeed advocating hackingtoshes. At least indirectly! Why? Because he proposed changing the mobo which is 100% hackingtosh and requires a lot of hacking to adress the support and to avoid the inherent stability problems. To me that will always be a nono. Talk about replacing ram with third party or to replace the hdd that's another story.

Back to the topic though: what strikes me the most is the fact that when i read news about the new Mac Pro i always seen complains about no Tb or Usb 3 (which are ok) but never i,ve seen people talks aboutmthe most important and that is SATA 3. If you still have sata2 it's useless to have TB or USB 3

[icerabbit]

zarmanto, on 22 June 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

SteveChavez, on 22 June 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

... A Hackintosh isn't a Macintosh. The next gen machine will come. ...

Nope; a hackintosh certainly isn't a Macintosh -- but speaking from the point of view of a geek who has actually built one, it can be an adequate substitute when you're on a very tight budget and all you need is something cheap that works... and you want something that isn't just another ugly Windows box. Do I recommend hackintoshes to others? Heck no! You have to jump through a series of very un-Apple-like hoops to make one of those buggers work correctly! Would I do it again, today? I honestly don't know for certain; it was an easy decision when that was all I could afford, but if I were purchasing today, I could more readily budget for a decently specced Mini. Or I could use the same money to build an even better hackintosh/gaming rig. Frankly, I'm on the fence. (I probably will be purchasing new hardware soon enough, though, since neither my hackintosh nor my iMac are likely to support 10.8.)

All of that said: As disappointing as the speed bumped Mac Pro is, the truth is that if the "next gen machine" had been announced as a direct replacement for the current Mac Pro, (with comparable pricing) it would not have impacted my own decision making process in the least. As you noted, not very many people really need the power and flexibility offered by the Mac Pro. On the other hand, if they actually announce something like Dan's "mythical midrange Mac minitower" ( reference ) ... then I'll start getting really excited.

A hackintosh can be a fun adventure to broaden one's vision and experience, but by god it is a heck of a lot cheaper, easier and far less frustrating to just pony up the money and buy an Apple product. Once you start looking at the logistics: machine specs, hackintosh learning curve, trial & error, bugs, updating ... you'll be very busy being totally unproductive.

Note, that I'm the first one to admit that Apple no longer sells the hardware that I want on my desk and will join the line (should it exist) to say Apple needs to broaden its computer line, ... but hackintosh? No thank you. Too much work, too many head scratchers.

[user755f]

AndreiDica, on 22 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Penzi, on 22 June 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 22 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

VitaminCM, on 22 June 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

I've been using Macs for about 4 years now. Before that I was a PC user who built my own machines (mostly due to dissatisfaction with what the big box stores had available).
I just got a new MacBook Pro and upgraded the ram to 16GB (Apple will only sell you 8). I put in my own SSD (Saved a ton and got a better one than they sell.) I replaced the pointless DVD drive with an internal 1TB hard drive. It took me longer to shop for the parts than the actual installation took. I got a better, faster machine than Apple would sell me and saved $790 in the process.
I guess what I'm saying is, Stop whining and upgrade your own damn machines!!! If you really need a Mac "PRO", you should have a little bit of technical skills and intelligence. Buy better, faster, cheaper parts and install them yourself. It's really not that hard.
Go to Google
Type in "how to upgrade mac pro motherboard"
Find tons of good tutorials
Stop waiting around for Apple (or Dell, HP, etc.) to chew up the food and spit it into your mouth. You're not a baby bird.
The few hours that you invest will be recovered in improved performance.

By their own admissions the Hackintosh thing is a hobby at best. The machines are never able to stay current with the latest OS and updates, and require frequent tweaking to work well. Hackintosh is not the answer. Apple getting its &@^! together IS.

He is not advocating Hackintoshes, he is advocating updating MacPros on your own, with "aftermarket" parts. Such as USB3 boards, SSDs, etc...

I'm sorry to inform you but he is indeed advocating hackingtoshes. At least indirectly! Why? Because he proposed changing the mobo which is 100% hackingtosh and requires a lot of hacking to adress the support and to avoid the inherent stability problems. To me that will always be a nono. Talk about replacing ram with third party or to replace the hdd that's another story.

Back to the topic though: what strikes me the most is the fact that when i read news about the new Mac Pro i always seen complains about no Tb or Usb 3 (which are ok) but never i,ve seen people talks aboutmthe most important and that is SATA 3. If you still have sata2 it's useless to have TB or USB 3

Sorry, gotta jump in here and go back off subject...

Heck no its not a Hackintosh! No frakkin' in this world way!

A Hackintosh is 99% software and 1% hardware, and the fella is talking only hardware here- and he's dead on correct.

The MacPro is MEANT to have 3rd party add-ons, otherwise it'd be called an iMac (I mean, have you ever even looked inside one?). What do you think all of those expansion bays, plugs and slots are for?

[user755f]

Actually looked it up and...

The Mac Pro (Early 2009) with one Intel Xeon W3520 2670 MHz (4 cores) gets a Geekbench of 8269, and the new Mac Pro is only 44% faster. That gives a Geekbench of about 11,900- and that's HORRIBLE. My upgraded 2006 MacPro1,1 does that. You could easily get a Geekbench of 15k buying nothing but used stuff off eBay for less than$2,000. Holy Cow, that's pathetic!

[Frost7]

Meh.

Will wait for the 2013 "new thing" Tim Cook promised. And not even because he mentioned it; this update is a joke. I'd be waiting even without his comment. His comment just made the perceived time shorter.

[Loren]

Still the sexiest engineering design in the industry. Hope the form factor and ease of accessibility are maintained. Wouldn't mind a drop of ten pounds in weight-- but I could say that of the Mac Pro as well. ;-)

- Thunderbolt port
- USB 3.0 ports
- eSATA ports!!
- SSD for boot drive, installed in Lower Drive Bay under Optical. (Leave 4 drive caddies for RAIDS, etc.

[cfranz]

zarmanto, on 22 June 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

SteveChavez, on 22 June 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

... A Hackintosh isn't a Macintosh. The next gen machine will come. ...

Nope; a hackintosh certainly isn't a Macintosh -- but speaking from the point of view of a geek who has actually built one, it can be an adequate substitute when you're on a very tight budget and all you need is something cheap that works...

The important thing here to remember is that this only works (from a business perspective) if you do not value your own time (i.e. put a low hourly value on your own time). That, however, is the hallmark of an amateur/non-profit organization. A hackintosh is orders of magnitudes more expensive if you add the extra time required to build, and then maintain it (at least for our purposes).

We need the speed to reduce compile and image processing time. We looked at building a couple of these things (we have the expertise in-house). Problem is, we are developers. And this means that those frankentoshes must run beta- and prerelease versions of OSX. The time (cost) required to get them to *reliably* run that is exorbitant - even if we only (internally) calculate $30/h for a hack tech.

That being said, I, too, are disappointed by the new Pros. I couldn't care less about the USB3/Thunderbolt stuff (our storage is plenty fast already). But a 16% processor performance bump is barely noticeable (especially with the drag that Lion is exerting vs. Snow Leopard). I'm daydreaming of a 100% performance boost (fully knowing, of course, that there currently are no such processors available).

[ubru]

Please have it tested with Snow Leopard OSX 10.6. Does it run ?

[AndreiDica]

user755f, on 22 June 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

AndreiDica, on 22 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Penzi, on 22 June 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 22 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

VitaminCM, on 22 June 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

I've been using Macs for about 4 years now. Before that I was a PC user who built my own machines (mostly due to dissatisfaction with what the big box stores had available).
I just got a new MacBook Pro and upgraded the ram to 16GB (Apple will only sell you 8). I put in my own SSD (Saved a ton and got a better one than they sell.) I replaced the pointless DVD drive with an internal 1TB hard drive. It took me longer to shop for the parts than the actual installation took. I got a better, faster machine than Apple would sell me and saved $790 in the process.
I guess what I'm saying is, Stop whining and upgrade your own damn machines!!! If you really need a Mac "PRO", you should have a little bit of technical skills and intelligence. Buy better, faster, cheaper parts and install them yourself. It's really not that hard.
Go to Google
Type in "how to upgrade mac pro motherboard"
Find tons of good tutorials
Stop waiting around for Apple (or Dell, HP, etc.) to chew up the food and spit it into your mouth. You're not a baby bird.
The few hours that you invest will be recovered in improved performance.

By their own admissions the Hackintosh thing is a hobby at best. The machines are never able to stay current with the latest OS and updates, and require frequent tweaking to work well. Hackintosh is not the answer. Apple getting its &@^! together IS.

He is not advocating Hackintoshes, he is advocating updating MacPros on your own, with "aftermarket" parts. Such as USB3 boards, SSDs, etc...

I'm sorry to inform you but he is indeed advocating hackingtoshes. At least indirectly! Why? Because he proposed changing the mobo which is 100% hackingtosh and requires a lot of hacking to adress the support and to avoid the inherent stability problems. To me that will always be a nono. Talk about replacing ram with third party or to replace the hdd that's another story.

Back to the topic though: what strikes me the most is the fact that when i read news about the new Mac Pro i always seen complains about no Tb or Usb 3 (which are ok) but never i,ve seen people talks aboutmthe most important and that is SATA 3. If you still have sata2 it's useless to have TB or USB 3

Sorry, gotta jump in here and go back off subject...

Heck no its not a Hackintosh! No frakkin' in this world way!

A Hackintosh is 99% software and 1% hardware, and the fella is talking only hardware here- and he's dead on correct.

The MacPro is MEANT to have 3rd party add-ons, otherwise it'd be called an iMac (I mean, have you ever even looked inside one?). What do you think all of those expansion bays, plugs and slots are for?

He talked about replacing the mobo. Maybe the proc? If that's so then you're left only with a tower case from apple. Nothing else is Apple anymore.


A Hacingtosh is a non-Macintosh computer running Apple OS X. From "hack" + "Macintosh". As i said a tower case that has an apple logo on it doesn't make it a Mac manufactuered by Apple. It just makes it a custom PC with Apple Mac Pro case, adapted mobo, adapted CPU, custom EFI, custom RAM and adapted to the mobo specs, probably a custom graphics card ... all of this defining a Hackingtosh because guess what OS X WILL HAVE TO BE HEAVILY MODDED IN ORDER TO HAVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF STABILITY.

And PS: you pointed out that a hackingtosh is 99% software, which is almost true and if so then what software you speak of for example to use a SSD INSTEAD OF HDD? Or to use the second optical bay as anoyher hdd? Or to use more ram from third party? Answer is none. Factory os c can handle it. Replacing a motherboard is entirely dfifferent thing. The thing will only power up probably.

This post has been edited by AndreiDica: 23 June 2012 - 03:26 AM

[user755f]

[/quote]
He talked about replacing the mobo. Maybe the proc? If that's so then you're left only with a tower case from apple. Nothing else is Apple anymore.


A Hacingtosh is a non-Macintosh computer running Apple OS X. From "hack" + "Macintosh". As i said a tower case that has an apple logo on it doesn't make it a Mac manufactuered by Apple. It just makes it a custom PC with Apple Mac Pro case, adapted mobo, adapted CPU, custom EFI, custom RAM and adapted to the mobo specs, probably a custom graphics card ... all of this defining a Hackingtosh because guess what OS X WILL HAVE TO BE HEAVILY MODDED IN ORDER TO HAVE A DECENT AMOUNT OF STABILITY.

And PS: you pointed out that a hackingtosh is 99% software, which is almost true and if so then what software you speak of for example to use a SSD INSTEAD OF HDD? Or to use the second optical bay as anoyher hdd? Or to use more ram from third party? Answer is none. Factory os c can handle it. Replacing a motherboard is entirely dfifferent thing. The thing will only power up probably.
[/quote]


Daaaaaang.... did you even read his post? He said to go Google "how to upgrade mac pro motherboard". And y'know if ya had done that you'd have notice all of the hits being from nice loyal Apple supporting websites!

That said- I accept that you have your own definition of "Hackintosh". For the viewing public reading this thread tho, the rest of the world would probably define a "Hackintosh" as "a PC that uses compatible hardware, a normal (not hacked) version of OS X, and a boot loader that lets the OS think it was running on a genuine Mac." But each to his own pally.

[zarmanto]

user755f, on 23 June 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

That said- I accept that you have your own definition of "Hackintosh". For the viewing public reading this thread tho, the rest of the world would probably define a "Hackintosh" as "a PC that uses compatible hardware, a normal (not hacked) version of OS X, and a boot loader that lets the OS think it was running on a genuine Mac." But each to his own pally.

I'm not defending the position of the previous poster, per se...but I would have to interject here to say that at least one portion of your definition appears to be based upon either very limited or no experience in actually building a hackintosh. To stay within your definition, you would have to build a hackintosh out of components that are largely identical to Apple's own components -- which isn't entirely unrealistic, but that is by no means the only road to a functional hackintosh. For instance, my own hackintosh is based upon an AMD motherboard and CPU; at present no Apple Mac has an AMD CPU. As such, I had to go much further then just wedging in a boot loader on a vanilla OS install; I also had to obtain an entirely separate kernal with support for AMD, and several hacked "kext" files to support various other differences between my hardware and Apple's hardware. I also had to jump through several other hoops along the way, to convince my rig to work correctly... it was by no means a simple, "just install a hacked bootloader and then install OS X," proposition.

So, the larger "hackintosh" community does indeed do quite a bit of "hacking" of OS X which falls well outside of your definition.

[heisebookkeeping]

AndreiDica, on 22 June 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

Penzi, on 22 June 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Photonerd, on 22 June 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

VitaminCM, on 22 June 2012 - 05:00 AM, said:

I've been using Macs for about 4 years now. Before that I was a PC user who built my own machines (mostly due to dissatisfaction with what the big box stores had available).
I just got a new MacBook Pro and upgraded the ram to 16GB (Apple will only sell you 8). I put in my own SSD (Saved a ton and got a better one than they sell.) I replaced the pointless DVD drive with an internal 1TB hard drive. It took me longer to shop for the parts than the actual installation took. I got a better, faster machine than Apple would sell me and saved $790 in the process.
I guess what I'm saying is, Stop whining and upgrade your own damn machines!!! If you really need a Mac "PRO", you should have a little bit of technical skills and intelligence. Buy better, faster, cheaper parts and install them yourself. It's really not that hard.
Go to Google
Type in "how to upgrade mac pro motherboard"
Find tons of good tutorials
Stop waiting around for Apple (or Dell, HP, etc.) to chew up the food and spit it into your mouth. You're not a baby bird.
The few hours that you invest will be recovered in improved performance.

By their own admissions the Hackintosh thing is a hobby at best. The machines are never able to stay current with the latest OS and updates, and require frequent tweaking to work well. Hackintosh is not the answer. Apple getting its &@^! together IS.

He is not advocating Hackintoshes, he is advocating updating MacPros on your own, with "aftermarket" parts. Such as USB3 boards, SSDs, etc...

I'm sorry to inform you but he is indeed advocating hackingtoshes. At least indirectly! Why? Because he proposed changing the mobo which is 100% hackingtosh and requires a lot of hacking to adress the support and to avoid the inherent stability problems. To me that will always be a nono. Talk about replacing ram with third party or to replace the hdd that's another story.

Back to the topic though: what strikes me the most is the fact that when i read news about the new Mac Pro i always seen complains about no Tb or Usb 3 (which are ok) but never i,ve seen people talks aboutmthe most important and that is SATA 3. If you still have sata2 it's useless to have TB or USB 3

This just means that Apple really had no plans until the very, very last minute not to cancel the Mac Pro. This just shows how reliable the rumor mill is becoming. The rumor mill said for a long time that there would be no new Mac Pros. Just a very, very minor speed bump up that has been available for a long time with no other change still means that the Mac Pro may be on an end of cycle. We may just have gotten a short extension. This is unlike the 17" laptop that the rumor sites said would be gone & it now is. No extension there.

These are the things that help drive the Hackintosh as the only alternative left. I like building my own computer. It is fun even for Mac people. Apple has done a very good job of pushing me that way. Also with each version of the Mac OS getting more like the iToy iOS who wants to change the OS version. More many Mac Users Mac OS 10.6 is an upgrade from Mac OS 10.5. But starting with Mac OS 10.7 & probably 10.8 the term upgrade needs to be replaced with a more honest & accurate term. The term update is probably still an over statement. For now I think the term may have to just say version number change.

Buy a new Mac & get soured towards the Mac. Make & buy a Hackintosh & relearn for many of use or learn for the rest of us as to how a computer works. This may become the new Mac way.

[Rocwurst]

I think this speed comparison is flawed as it doesn't compare Mac Pros configured the way most pro users would have them. My 2009 Mac Pro for example has 4 x 1TB hard disks with hardware RAID card and 20GB of RAM and is an absolute monster compressing the many videos that I work with daily.

Comparing a Mac Pro with a single hard disk to a laptop with an SSD is ridiculous.

My current Mac Pro has come to end of lease so I'm looking at what system to get as a replacement and am currently trying to decide whether 2 or 3 512GB SSDs software RAIDed internally would be sufficiently faster than 4x2TB HDDs hardware RAIDed together internally to warrant the loss in storage capacity.

The MacBook Pro can't go up to 64 GBs of RAM or have up to 6 drives hardware RAIDed internally (by losing the optical drive), though of course more expensive external Thunderbolt arrays are an option for the MBP. Also, the 3.0GHz 12-core Mac Pro is significantly faster than the 2.6GHz tested above, so how would it compare with the MBP I wonder?

The lack of USB 3.0 can be fixed with a PCI card, while the lack of Thunderbolt while a pain is mitigated by all those lovely internal PCI slots.

Tricky decision.

[user755f]

zarmanto, on 23 June 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

user755f, on 23 June 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:

That said- I accept that you have your own definition of "Hackintosh". For the viewing public reading this thread tho, the rest of the world would probably define a "Hackintosh" as "a PC that uses compatible hardware, a normal (not hacked) version of OS X, and a boot loader that lets the OS think it was running on a genuine Mac." But each to his own pally.

I'm not defending the position of the previous poster, per se...but I would have to interject here to say that at least one portion of your definition appears to be based upon either very limited or no experience in actually building a hackintosh. To stay within your definition, you would have to build a hackintosh out of components that are largely identical to Apple's own components -- which isn't entirely unrealistic, but that is by no means the only road to a functional hackintosh. For instance, my own hackintosh is based upon an AMD motherboard and CPU; at present no Apple Mac has an AMD CPU. As such, I had to go much further then just wedging in a boot loader on a vanilla OS install; I also had to obtain an entirely separate kernal with support for AMD, and several hacked "kext" files to support various other differences between my hardware and Apple's hardware. I also had to jump through several other hoops along the way, to convince my rig to work correctly... it was by no means a simple, "just install a hacked bootloader and then install OS X," proposition.

So, the larger "hackintosh" community does indeed do quite a bit of "hacking" of OS X which falls well outside of your definition.

eeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh yeeeeeaaaahhhhh.... Okay, I see where you're coming from- but really isn't the fun of it to see just what really strange and bizarre piece of hardware you can get to run OS X? Like as one poster above likened it to a hobby.

I was thinking more like you're walking down the hall past IT during an upgrade cycle, look down and see several greencreek boards stacked against the wall. You stop and say "you guys want me to get rid of those for you?" They look quizzically at each other, one shrugs, and another says "sure, go ahead". Once home you grab a pair of old 5150's, an old PC PSU whose power cord you had to fix, some other salvage, and throw it on your bench. Now seriously, is it going to take you eight full hours to get OS X up and running? (And i'm not saying put it in a box, paint it all up, etc)

And trust me, I am thoroughly impressed at getting the AMD hardware running... but let me tell you why you did it- you did it because it was #1- it wuz lots o'fun!, #2- it's a Challenge! (see #1), and #3- you're a masochist (see #1). But most folks would prolly go an easier route and follow what was already "tried 'n true". So don't ya maybe think for about 75% or better of the people out there, my definition is almost spot on, or that at least gives others an idea of what a Hackintosh is?