[sensel]

The lack of save as is a big problem for the way graphic designers and others in creative fields work.
Many people and many Mac users, including many at Macworld (I have noticed over decades of reading it and working on the Mac since 1985), do not understand that in the process of designing or creating things, they often need different versions that are saved as along the way. These versions are used in house by the designer and for team discussions as well as in presenting to the client.
Think of saved as versions as akin to layers in InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Designers use layers to store versions or variations on concepts they are working on. To show a client, they might have to first print or make a PDF or Quicktime of these different variations by turning a layer or more on and off. Then doing a Save as or export (as the case may be). If the client or in house lead looks at it in its original version, again, if this is not running off a shared server, a save as version may be made to send to them.
Also don’t forget that in some versions of software, save as is also how you save back to an earlier version of something. Often essential when working with clients and partners who are more or less up to date with you.
So save as is not a back up or a duplicate but used to generate an entirely new copy of something used for various purposes by various people.
Save as is much more powerful than many people realize. For every magazine, newspaper, book spread you have have ever read in your life, there are 5-20+ save as’ed versions of it BEFORE it is completed.
I say with no hesitation: We MUST save SAVE AS!

[Stewsburntmonkey]

 sensel, on 15 August 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

The lack of save as is a big problem for the way graphic designers and others in creative fields work.
Many people and many Mac users, including many at Macworld (I have noticed over decades of reading it and working on the Mac since 1985), do not understand that in the process of designing or creating things, they often need different versions that are saved as along the way. These versions are used in house by the designer and for team discussions as well as in presenting to the client.
Think of saved as versions as akin to layers in InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Designers use layers to store versions or variations on concepts they are working on. To show a client, they might have to first print or make a PDF or Quicktime of these different variations by turning a layer or more on and off. Then doing a Save as or export (as the case may be). If the client or in house lead looks at it in its original version, again, if this is not running off a shared server, a save as version may be made to send to them.
Also don’t forget that in some versions of software, save as is also how you save back to an earlier version of something. Often essential when working with clients and partners who are more or less up to date with you.
So save as is not a back up or a duplicate but used to generate an entirely new copy of something used for various purposes by various people.
Save as is much more powerful than many people realize. For every magazine, newspaper, book spread you have have ever read in your life, there are 5-20+ save as’ed versions of it BEFORE it is completed.
I say with no hesitation: We MUST save SAVE AS!

Let's leave aside the fact that most professional graphics application don't use the OSX auto-save/version system and so still have "Save As", which of those cases does the current OSX save as/duplicate not handle? I don't see any of the workflows you mentioned which are prevented by the new system.

[whitedog]

 sensel, on 15 August 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

The lack of save as is a big problem for the way graphic designers and others in creative fields work.
Many people and many Mac users, including many at Macworld (I have noticed over decades of reading it and working on the Mac since 1985), do not understand that in the process of designing or creating things, they often need different versions that are saved as along the way. These versions are used in house by the designer and for team discussions as well as in presenting to the client.
Think of saved as versions as akin to layers in InDesign, Illustrator, and Photoshop. Designers use layers to store versions or variations on concepts they are working on. To show a client, they might have to first print or make a PDF or Quicktime of these different variations by turning a layer or more on and off. Then doing a Save as or export (as the case may be). If the client or in house lead looks at it in its original version, again, if this is not running off a shared server, a save as version may be made to send to them.
Also don’t forget that in some versions of software, save as is also how you save back to an earlier version of something. Often essential when working with clients and partners who are more or less up to date with you.
So save as is not a back up or a duplicate but used to generate an entirely new copy of something used for various purposes by various people.
Save as is much more powerful than many people realize. For every magazine, newspaper, book spread you have have ever read in your life, there are 5-20+ save as’ed versions of it BEFORE it is completed.
I say with no hesitation: We MUST save SAVE AS!

If you had gone to the trouble to read other posts on this blog (mine in particular) you would have seen that most professional grade graphics apps don't use Apple's new AutoSave/Versions scheme. On most apps Save As works as it always has - though in the case of iPhoto and Aperture there is not, nor never has been, a conventional Save As function. Nor does Lightroom use Save As. Photoshop, on the other hand, still utilizes Save As, as it always has done, though PS CS6 includes an autosave function of its own.

Adobe's apps in particular have not adopted Apple's system. Among Apple's apps, Preview does use AutoSave and Versions, as does the popular third party app Pixelmator. Anyone panicking about Save As as it relates to graphics and photo apps simply has not done his/her homework. Take a breath and do some reading.

This post has been edited by whitedog: 15 August 2012 - 09:35 AM

[cordobes]

What happened to the simple but very effective "Apple" thinking? Looks like Apple is becoming more like Microsoft. I enjoyed Pages because of its basic function yet wide capabilities. Now things are beginning to be complicated and NOT intuitive, USER FRIENDLY any more.

Thanks for clarifying things for us again.

[johndrake]

 bastion, on 08 August 2012 - 09:50 AM, said:

 DogHouseDub, on 08 August 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

talk about change for the sake of change. Way too much of this creeping into the Mac OS.

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. That would imply that the change was made without intent or expectation of a tangible benefit. I submit they they did intend and expect it, and also that they achieved it.

To paraphrase Inigo!

[brian_wessels]

I'm beginning to seriously wonder why I'm still using Macs, 24 years after I started to. I'm overdue for a new one, but this is just another reason to buy used and make sure it runs a pre-Lion Mac OS.

[whitedog]

 brian_wessels, on 19 August 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm beginning to seriously wonder why I'm still using Macs, 24 years after I started to. I'm overdue for a new one, but this is just another reason to buy used and make sure it runs a pre-Lion Mac OS.

While buying a used or refurb computer from Apple or any other source may save you money in the short term, long term it may be a waste, unless you shop carefully. The value of such a computer will depend on how old and how used it is. It also depends on what you plan to use the computer for, now and in the future. If your needs are modest, a used computer may be sufficient. For what it's worth, though, I suggest you get a refurb Mac from Apple - it will include the standard one year warrantee and be eligible for a two year extended Apple Care warrantee as well, something you won't get from most third-party sources, certainly not in a private sale. What I suggest you look for is a Mac that supports Snow Leopard but can be upgraded to Lion/Mountain Lion when the time comes, as it inevitably will, when Apple drops support for OS X 10.6. Already there are apps, like the latest versions in Apple's iWork suite, that only run in Lion and above.

There's also the question of whether you can get by with what will soon be vintage technology or will benefit from the new technologies Apple is including in its newest models, tech like USB 3, a 6Gbps drive bus, faster RAM and more capable GPUs. While there are downsides to Apple's latest versions of OS X, there are upsides to the emerging technologies that may compensate for what you lose in the OS. In particular, buying new technology will future-proof your Mac - it will be longer, probably years longer, before you have to consider getting another new computer. And, after all, while it may take some time and effort to learn how OS X 10.7/8 do things, it can be done - and sooner or later you will have to do so.

While the MacBook Airs and Pros have just been refreshed with all that new tech I'm talking about, neither the iMac nor the Mac Pro have been. Which means they are both due for a refresh to bring them on par with Apple's laptops. So that's another issue to consider. Do you want a laptop or a desktop Mac? The new 15" MacBook Pros (non-RD) are excellent machine at fairly reasonable prices. But, of course, they are Lion/Mountain Lion only.

This post has been edited by whitedog: 19 August 2012 - 12:33 PM

[cthomas01]

Wow this writer makes it much more difficult than it really is. It is really a simple process. I love the new autosave feature, as well as the duplicate feature. Instead of making this a lot harder than it really is and talking about things that distract, such as short cuts talk about what the process of simplicity. When talking to employees or others, I don't have to hear anymore "do i hit save or do I hit save as?" Nope, now it is just "save". That is it - end of story. If you want to make changes then your going to duplicate that file and either modify the name or leave it alone with the word "copy" attached to it. It also helps people not to plagiarize by forcing them to create a new document if some one has created the original. This will help copy editors (unfortunately this is a dying breed).

[Chris Breen]

 cthomas01, on 26 August 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

Wow this writer makes it much more difficult than it really is. It is really a simple process. .

If you don't understand the value and purpose of the original Save As command, absolutely.

[DRailroad]

Although obviously a shameless plug for a product ("Stairways Soft"), nonetheless, still a very useful tip. In fact one of the most useful and simplest (read "efficient") tips written yet.

However, we'll agree with one or two other posters, he could've stopped at "Launch System Preferences > General (tab) > check 'Ask To Keep Changes When Closing Documents' option > Close System Preferences" and been done with it.

We are of that ilk (3 Mac Pro 12 cores, 11 clients with Mac Pros) who prefer the "Save as" option, finding it much more productive. It's all a matter of personal, or business applications, preference.

[whitedog]

 whitedog, on 19 August 2012 - 12:30 PM, said:

 brian_wessels, on 19 August 2012 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm beginning to seriously wonder why I'm still using Macs, 24 years after I started to. I'm overdue for a new one, but this is just another reason to buy used and make sure it runs a pre-Lion Mac OS.

While buying a used or refurb computer from Apple or any other source may save you money in the short term, long term it may be a waste, unless you shop carefully. The value of such a computer will depend on how old and how used it is. It also depends on what you plan to use the computer for, now and in the future. If your needs are modest, a used computer may be sufficient. For what it's worth, though, I suggest you get a refurb Mac from Apple - it will include the standard one year warrantee and be eligible for a two year extended Apple Care warrantee as well, something you won't get from most third-party sources, certainly not in a private sale. What I suggest you look for is a Mac that supports Snow Leopard but can be upgraded to Lion/Mountain Lion when the time comes, as it inevitably will, when Apple drops support for OS X 10.6. Already there are apps, like the latest versions in Apple's iWork suite, that only run in Lion and above.

There's also the question of whether you can get by with what will soon be vintage technology or will benefit from the new technologies Apple is including in its newest models, tech like USB 3, a 6Gbps drive bus, faster RAM and more capable GPUs. While there are downsides to Apple's latest versions of OS X, there are upsides to the emerging technologies that may compensate for what you lose in the OS. In particular, buying new technology will future-proof your Mac - it will be longer, probably years longer, before you have to consider getting another new computer. And, after all, while it may take some time and effort to learn how OS X 10.7/8 do things, it can be done - and sooner or later you will have to do so.

While the MacBook Airs and Pros have just been refreshed with all that new tech I'm talking about, neither the iMac nor the Mac Pro have been. Which means they are both due for a refresh to bring them on par with Apple's laptops. So that's another issue to consider. Do you want a laptop or a desktop Mac? The new 15" MacBook Pros (non-RD) are excellent machine at fairly reasonable prices. But, of course, they are Lion/Mountain Lion only.

Since I wrote this Apple has updated the iMacs. And some of the changes are dramatic. They no longer include an optical drive (CD/DVD) or FireWire. If you have legacy FireWire hardware you will need to get a Thunderbolt to FireWire 800 adaptor cable, which has some limitations compared to a native FireWire bus. If you need one, you will need to get an external optical drive. There are still a few legacy iMacs available in the pipeline, but these will soon disappear. I have, in fact, advised several clients to get one of these (usually the 21" model) because the specs are almost exactly the same. The new iMacs come with USB 3 and at least 8 GB of RAM, and include the option of a Fusion Drive, which can really boost performance, so it you are a power user these machines are an obvious choice. But for other, these advantages may not mean much, whereas legacy hardware support may be important. The wheel continues to turn.