[bachelorbob]

I am a professional musician who does scholarly field research. I must have a portable computer with an internal optical drive. It appears that Apple intends to stop producing such. If the current MacBook Pros with a SuperDrive are their last, I will need to purchase several. Apple has an ugly habit of secrecy around new product releases. Is there any way to determine when I will need to buy these machines? I do not want to see a new MacBook Pro line announcement, see no internal optical drive model, and be unable to purchase a new machine that was offered the day before.

This issue is so important that I would be forced to purchase a Windows laptop just to have an internal optical drive.

[bastion]

 bachelorbob, on 25 October 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

I am a professional musician who does scholarly field research. I must have a portable computer with an internal optical drive. It appears that Apple intends to stop producing such. If the current MacBook Pros with a SuperDrive are their last, I will need to purchase several. Apple has an ugly habit of secrecy around new product releases. Is there any way to determine when I will need to buy these machines? I do not want to see a new MacBook Pro line announcement, see no internal optical drive model, and be unable to purchase a new machine that was offered the day before.

This issue is so important that I would be forced to purchase a Windows laptop just to have an internal optical drive.

As a practical matter, you're not going to be unable to buy a MBP with an internal optical drive "the day after" Apple stops shipping such machines. Just about every retailer is going to have inventory to clear out.

There's no consistently reliable way to determine if the next model Apple comes out with has, or lacks, any particular aspect that Apple themselves haven't publicly confirmed.

Curiosity: Why will you need to buy several? How much longevity do you see from the models you've bought recently? Why is it critical that the drive is internal?

I'm not being critical; just trying to understand. As it happens the optical drive was a large factor in my decision to get a non-retina MBP when I needed a new notebook this summer. I get that some people essentially need it; I'm just trying to understand your perspective and needs.

[smax013]

 bastion, on 25 October 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

As a practical matter, you're not going to be unable to buy a MBP with an internal optical drive "the day after" Apple stops shipping such machines. Just about every retailer is going to have inventory to clear out.

Agree. For example, Amazon usually has older models for at least a month or so after newer models are released...and typically for a slight discount.

Plus, there is always Apple's own "refurbished" models that they sell. They usually have at least one generation, if not two generation, older models available as refurbished.

Quote

There's no consistently reliable way to determine if the next model Apple comes out with has, or lacks, any particular aspect that Apple themselves haven't publicly confirmed.

And there is no way to know when Apple will stop selling a current model that does have an internal optical drive (i.e. such as how they kept the "old" white MacBook around for a while after introducing the newer "unibody" MacBooks).

[bachelorbob]

 bastion, on 25 October 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Curiosity: Why will you need to buy several? How much longevity do you see from the models you've bought recently? Why is it critical that the drive is internal?

I will buy several because I will never stop needing a laptop with an internal optical drive and nothing lasts forever. Even if I limit my use of a MBP to just cataloging CDs and keep it in a Pelican case, I doubt I could get more than 15 years out of one. I work a SuperDrive to death about every 12 months. I'll probably also buy a dozen replacement SuperDrives to install as needed. It needs to be internal because I see no reason why I should always have to carry an external of something essential. Imagine how you will feel when, because of iCloud, Apple decides that you no longer need a hard drive (or any internal file storage). A MBP 7,x will be an iPad with flip open keyboard, 0.5" thick, and with RAM only. The OS and *all* of your files will have obligatory remote storage. People like me will then be forced to carry an external HD everywhere. How you feel about that is exactly how I feel about a laptop with no internal optical drive.

This isn't like retiring the 3.5" floppy. There are 10s of millions of CDs (commercial, educational, private) in existence that will NEVER be available on iTunes. Apple is thinking about Lady Gaga. I'm thinking about every student recital CD recorded since the mid-1990s. While they focus on digital profit sources (APPs, iTunes, movies, etc.), I focus on educational access to existing media.

[bastion]

 bachelorbob, on 26 October 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

 bastion, on 25 October 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

Curiosity: Why will you need to buy several? How much longevity do you see from the models you've bought recently? Why is it critical that the drive is internal?

I will buy several because I will never stop needing a laptop with an internal optical drive and nothing lasts forever.

Ah, but will they outlast their viable lifespan? You're going to buy "several" machines and hope that you can get as much as 15 years out of each? I have to tell you, the batteries in all your spare machines will have lost all of their capacity before you get around to using the second one.

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Even if I limit my use of a MBP to just cataloging CDs and keep it in a Pelican case, I doubt I could get more than 15 years out of one. I work a SuperDrive to death about every 12 months. I'll probably also buy a dozen replacement SuperDrives to install as needed. It needs to be internal because I see no reason why I should always have to carry an external of something essential.

Imagine how you will feel when, because of iCloud, Apple decides that you no longer need a hard drive (or any internal file storage). A MBP 7,x will be an iPad with flip open keyboard, 0.5" thick, and with RAM only. The OS and *all* of your files will have obligatory remote storage. People like me will then be forced to carry an external HD everywhere. How you feel about that is exactly how I feel about a laptop with no internal optical drive.

Well, except for the fact that one thing is an unrealistic projection and the other is a practical reality today.

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This isn't like retiring the 3.5" floppy. There are 10s of millions of CDs (commercial, educational, private) in existence that will NEVER be available on iTunes. Apple is thinking about Lady Gaga. I'm thinking about every student recital CD recorded since the mid-1990s. While they focus on digital profit sources (APPs, iTunes, movies, etc.), I focus on educational access to existing media.

Actually, it's very much like retiring the floppy drive. As I noted in my prior response, I am still a heavy optical media user. You and I are a vanishing breed. I would guess, from observation, that the percentage of owners who use their optical drive today is near or in the single digits. I would further hazard that the subset that needs - or really really wants - that drive to be internal is downright minuscule. It doesn't serve Apple, their owners or the overwhelming majority of their customers to increase the price, weight, complexity and failure modes of their machines to cater to the niche.

In fact, eliminating the floppy drive was a bit more severe of a move. While superficially it appears similar in that inexpensive externals are readily available, the external floppy drives couldn't read variable speed media. Your "need" is actually just a very strong desire and if it really comes down to it you *could* grudgingly use a commodity external drive. You, and probably I, will be inconvenienced but able to carry on. The people who bought new Macs after mid-1998 had no reliable fallback option for their legacy media.

[smax013]

 bastion, on 26 October 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

 bachelorbob, on 26 October 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

Even if I limit my use of a MBP to just cataloging CDs and keep it in a Pelican case, I doubt I could get more than 15 years out of one. I work a SuperDrive to death about every 12 months. I'll probably also buy a dozen replacement SuperDrives to install as needed. It needs to be internal because I see no reason why I should always have to carry an external of something essential.

Imagine how you will feel when, because of iCloud, Apple decides that you no longer need a hard drive (or any internal file storage). A MBP 7,x will be an iPad with flip open keyboard, 0.5" thick, and with RAM only. The OS and *all* of your files will have obligatory remote storage. People like me will then be forced to carry an external HD everywhere. How you feel about that is exactly how I feel about a laptop with no internal optical drive.

Well, except for the fact that one thing is an unrealistic projection and the other is a practical reality today.

I don't know if it is an unrealistic projection...but it certainly is not happening any time soon. Before "cloud" storage completely does away with local storage, there needs to be ubiquitous Internet connection...and we are a LONG way from that. Case in point, just look at how poorly Chromebooks have done overall.

Having said that, I can see a day where you use "cloud" storage (whether that is some "cloud" storage through a company's servers or it is some local storage at your home that you access remotely remains to be seen) rather than some built-in storage.

[smax013]

 bachelorbob, on 26 October 2012 - 06:31 AM, said:

It needs to be internal because I see no reason why I should always have to carry an external of something essential.

And imagine all those people who argue that "it needs to be external because I see no reason to pay more to have an internal optical drive that I never use included and thus have to carry that internal drive around".

I am not saying this to belittle your situation, but frankly what you describe it not a need, but rather a desire...just as someone who does not want an internal drive does not "need" to have a computer without an internal drive.

The reality is that you can actually do just fine with an external optical drive. Should you have to use an external optical drive? In an ideal world, no.

In the end, the computer world is moving toward no using optical drives. Whether I consider that good or bad is irrelevant...it will most likely happen either way...and the vast majority of people won't miss them. That is part of life in the minority...you have to live with less than ideal situations.

Ultimately, you likely don't have to worry about it for at least a year or so. Since Apple still has MacBook Pro versions with internal optical drives right now, they likely will not go away for at least a year. And frankly, it will likely be a while longer. Both the Retina MBPs use only SSD...and until SSD prices come down, there likely will be a lot of people who want lots of internal storage without paying huge sums of money, so there will be a strong demand for "traditional" MBPs for a while. And even after that, there is always the used market.

[bachelorbob]

 smax013, on 27 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

And imagine all those people who argue that "it needs to be external because I see no reason to pay more to have an internal optical drive that I never use included and thus have to carry that internal drive around".

There are MacBook Airs for those people! From my perspective, the MacBook Pros without internal optical drives are MacBook Airs. No optical drive = no Pro.

Imagine the sales of a 15" and 17" MacBook Pro with Retina display, 1TB HD, 16-32GB RAM, and internal Blu-ray+DVD+CD burner.

[smax013]

Seems to be a timely article:

http://www.macworld....g-cd-drive.html

[bastion]

 bachelorbob, on 28 October 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

 smax013, on 27 October 2012 - 12:55 PM, said:

And imagine all those people who argue that "it needs to be external because I see no reason to pay more to have an internal optical drive that I never use included and thus have to carry that internal drive around".

There are MacBook Airs for those people! From my perspective, the MacBook Pros without internal optical drives are MacBook Airs. No optical drive = no Pro.

This, to me, implies a gratuitously narrow definition of what it means to be a "pro." My MBP has an optical drive, but there are people among MacInTouch's readers who will assert in no uncertain terms that it's not *really* a "pro" machine because it doesn't have an ExpressCard slot. It doesn't matter to them that very few pro users - whether you count that as "professionals who use that line" or "people who use the line called pro" - ever put anything in that slot and that very few of those who did ever put anything in there other than an SD reader which is now present on the notebook directly. To them, "professional" means a very specific subset of a very specific market.

Quote

Imagine the sales of a 15" and 17" MacBook Pro with Retina display, 1TB HD, 16-32GB RAM, and internal Blu-ray+DVD+CD burner.

In my imagination, none of the differences between those machines and what's currently available will increase profitability significantly. The two persistent storage elements least among the set.

[smax013]

 bastion, on 31 October 2012 - 02:57 AM, said:

 bachelorbob, on 28 October 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

There are MacBook Airs for those people! From my perspective, the MacBook Pros without internal optical drives are MacBook Airs. No optical drive = no Pro.

This, to me, implies a gratuitously narrow definition of what it means to be a "pro." My MBP has an optical drive, but there are people among MacInTouch's readers who will assert in no uncertain terms that it's not *really* a "pro" machine because it doesn't have an ExpressCard slot. It doesn't matter to them that very few pro users - whether you count that as "professionals who use that line" or "people who use the line called pro" - ever put anything in that slot and that very few of those who did ever put anything in there other than an SD reader which is now present on the notebook directly. To them, "professional" means a very specific subset of a very specific market.

Or those people who don't consider a 13" MBP a "Pro" because is uses the integrated Intel (currently 4000) graphics rather than some more powerful "discrete" graphics card.

In the end, "Pro" tends to mean different things to different people.

I will note, however, that any Mac with a Thunderbolt port should be able to use ExpressCards since there are Thunderbolt ExpressCard adapters. But then, the adapter is "external".

[Martian]

Perhaps I missed it but there seems to be no distinction between needing an optical drive right there in the field vs at home or office. For those who use CD/DVDs only at their desks, you should be glad to not carry it around and to have a stand alone approach to a somewhat failure prone device.

[gooser]

bob, i think you're overreacting. give it some time and you'll calm down some. i see no need for you to have more than one extra machine. i would choose a model that's easily repairable. something like the non unibody macbooks for example. i'm sure there are other examples. and in a few years if parts start drying up buy an extra superdrive. buying several new macbook pro's is probably overkill. (on a slightly different view i have a g4 imac in my living room and i always want to have one there. i like being able to swing the screen from side to side to display pictures to the rest of the room. also, the tray loaded superdrives last a very long time so i understand where you're coming from.)