[rolfknudsen]

Hello

I'm new to this forum and while my questions, at least in parts very possibly has been covered somewhere here, I still hope to get input on my specific scenario:

We are a small design studio with two work stations (Mac Pro 8-core and 4-core) connected to a G5 server, via two 100 Gbit switches. Our data is backed up using time machine using external drives.

We are rendering a lo directly to the server, often with large output files. We also allow freelancers access to our server and will scale up to 5+ people in total over the next year.

I am thinking of swapping our G5 server for a Synology NAS, for three reasons:

• Hard drive scalability I.e number of HD slots available (only one extra drive allowed in the G5)
• Read speed. I understand from other threads that this 1.5mbs on a G5 and worry this is a bottle neck while rendering.
• fragile backup system

I'm very worried about the fragility of our current backup system. This consists of a couble of external discs backing up using time machine. These are placed in near proximity to the server (cable length) and while I could locate them somewhere else in in the building in case of brake in, it still will not help in case of a fire destroying the entire building.

After having researched different cloud options I do not feel this this is the way forward: we need 1-2tb backup space which cost wise does not compare well to a NAS and a couple of drives.

Would it be feasible to run offsite backup as two synced NAS servers? One in the studio and one at home syncing over the Internet say 5 times per 24 hours?? Backup would be 200-500mb a day.

I do not have the time and more importantly the skills to maintain and work with a server and are hoping the NAS might be an even leaner fileserver solution for us I.e automatic server updates and acces over VPN as a mere password login ( we LOVE Dropbox)

Thank you in advance for your time!!!

[icerabbit]

I'm familiar with Synology, but I don't know that many people here are.

I'm confident one of the beefier multi-bay Synologys can fulfill your needs, but I would advise you to raise this question in the synology community forum.

While their NAS's are good, they list their ideal lab speeds and depending on the unit and RAID configuration, the real world speed is slower. Plus you run into the gigabit practical maximum of ~ 100MB/s. Which with link aggregation can be overcome.

[icerabbit]

PS:
And what I'm trying to say basically regarding the Synology speed is, that there are a lot of factors involved. You have to have a fast model, install fast drives from the approved compatibility list and have the right raid option that will write the data across many drives. Then connect using a fast protocol (SMB seems slower than AFP). Write speed depends on the size of files written. Etc. Our first dual drive synology unit, many years old with green WD drives only gives 20MB real world, our second one gives us up to 50MB, not their theoretical maximum. I'm considering a faster one with 4 drives or more for the future.

By the way, there used to be a replacement plexi insert for the G5 that allowed two or four more hard drives to be installed. I'll see if I can figure out the name.

It was called the G5 Jam

Other World Computing / Macsales still lists a G5 Jive hard drive solution. Might be worth giving them a call if you need the storage in your current setup badly, while evaluating synology and/or other NAS options.

This post has been edited by icerabbit: 19 January 2013 - 05:09 PM

[smax013]

rolfknudsen, on 19 January 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

Hello

I'm new to this forum and while my questions, at least in parts very possibly has been covered somewhere here, I still hope to get input on my specific scenario:

We are a small design studio with two work stations (Mac Pro 8-core and 4-core) connected to a G5 server, via two 100 Gbit switches. Our data is backed up using time machine using external drives.

We are rendering a lo directly to the server, often with large output files. We also allow freelancers access to our server and will scale up to 5+ people in total over the next year.

I am thinking of swapping our G5 server for a Synology NAS, for three reasons:

• Hard drive scalability I.e number of HD slots available (only one extra drive allowed in the G5)
• Read speed. I understand from other threads that this 1.5mbs on a G5 and worry this is a bottle neck while rendering.
• fragile backup system

I'm very worried about the fragility of our current backup system. This consists of a couble of external discs backing up using time machine. These are placed in near proximity to the server (cable length) and while I could locate them somewhere else in in the building in case of brake in, it still will not help in case of a fire destroying the entire building.

After having researched different cloud options I do not feel this this is the way forward: we need 1-2tb backup space which cost wise does not compare well to a NAS and a couple of drives.

Would it be feasible to run offsite backup as two synced NAS servers? One in the studio and one at home syncing over the Internet say 5 times per 24 hours?? Backup would be 200-500mb a day.

I do not have the time and more importantly the skills to maintain and work with a server and are hoping the NAS might be an even leaner fileserver solution for us I.e automatic server updates and acces over VPN as a mere password login ( we LOVE Dropbox)

Thank you in advance for your time!!!

In theory, I believe so. I don't directly know how to fully set it up.

I use a Netgear ReadyNAS. It does allow you to use rsync to basically "duplicate" the NAS to a second NAS (I actually know someone who does that...and some day I plan to get a second NAS to do that). So, I know it works on the same network. I have to believe that there are ways to set it up to work to a remote network using a VPN connection.

You can post the question to the ReadyNAS forums. There are lots of helpful folks there.

I would assume competing NAS systems from Synology, etc would have similar functionality.

This post has been edited by smax013: 21 January 2013 - 06:08 PM

[rolfknudsen]

icerabbit, on 19 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

PS:
And what I'm trying to say basically regarding the Synology speed is, that there are a lot of factors involved. You have to have a fast model, install fast drives from the approved compatibility list and have the right raid option that will write the data across many drives. Then connect using a fast protocol (SMB seems slower than AFP). Write speed depends on the size of files written. Etc. Our first dual drive synology unit, many years old with green WD drives only gives 20MB real world, our second one gives us up to 50MB, not their theoretical maximum. I'm considering a faster one with 4 drives or more for the future.

By the way, there used to be a replacement plexi insert for the G5 that allowed two or four more hard drives to be installed. I'll see if I can figure out the name.

It was called the G5 Jam

Other World Computing / Macsales still lists a G5 Jive hard drive solution. Might be worth giving them a call if you need the storage in your current setup badly, while evaluating synology and/or other NAS options.

This is great!!!! Thank you!!

I think I will go for the Synology NAS for off site storage, back the full server up on site and then install this off-site and let it run differential backups using Crash Plan (which is free) to add any new or changed to the backup. That way I also have a server at home that mirrors the one at work, which is very nice for those long evenings of work at home of for keeping files in "one" place (Iwould ;-) This seems like the cheapest and leanest, and I can then if it runs well, upgrade the G5 at work to another Synology NAS, paying close attention to your pointers.


THANKS!!!!!

[icerabbit]

 rolfknudsen, on 23 January 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

 icerabbit, on 19 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

PS:
And what I'm trying to say basically regarding the Synology speed is, that there are a lot of factors involved. You have to have a fast model, install fast drives from the approved compatibility list and have the right raid option that will write the data across many drives. Then connect using a fast protocol (SMB seems slower than AFP). Write speed depends on the size of files written. Etc. Our first dual drive synology unit, many years old with green WD drives only gives 20MB real world, our second one gives us up to 50MB, not their theoretical maximum. I'm considering a faster one with 4 drives or more for the future.

By the way, there used to be a replacement plexi insert for the G5 that allowed two or four more hard drives to be installed. I'll see if I can figure out the name.

It was called the G5 Jam

Other World Computing / Macsales still lists a G5 Jive hard drive solution. Might be worth giving them a call if you need the storage in your current setup badly, while evaluating synology and/or other NAS options.

This is great!!!! Thank you!!

I think I will go for the Synology NAS for off site storage, back the full server up on site and then install this off-site and let it run differential backups using Crash Plan (which is free) to add any new or changed to the backup. That way I also have a server at home that mirrors the one at work, which is very nice for those long evenings of work at home of for keeping files in "one" place (Iwould ;-) This seems like the cheapest and leanest, and I can then if it runs well, upgrade the G5 at work to another Synology NAS, paying close attention to your pointers.


THANKS!!!!!

You are welcome.

Couple more thoughts. I think most people are pleased with Synology. Their products (like Apple stuff) are a bit spendy, but they support them pretty well, and aren't some business where no-one is around. They do respond and will connect to your system to investigate when you need help. (needed it once) They are always pushing out new DSM updates too, so you don't immediately feel stuck with what you bought (been there done that with other brands where there's never a firmware update or bug fix; just buy a new unit for the new features). They've been supporting older hardware with new software for about 4 years. I would advise though to let their DSM (disk station manager) updates mature a few months before installing them, and don't go the beta route with a production system. One good thing they did recently is split the DSM and have a package center, so updates to apps / services can happen independently & faster.

And, again, regarding your needs, models & speed; maybe put the question out in the synology forum. Lots of friendly folks there, some of which have half a dozen synod they work with.

[rolfknudsen]

 icerabbit, on 24 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

 rolfknudsen, on 23 January 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

 icerabbit, on 19 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

PS:
And what I'm trying to say basically regarding the Synology speed is, that there are a lot of factors involved. You have to have a fast model, install fast drives from the approved compatibility list and have the right raid option that will write the data across many drives. Then connect using a fast protocol (SMB seems slower than AFP). Write speed depends on the size of files written. Etc. Our first dual drive synology unit, many years old with green WD drives only gives 20MB real world, our second one gives us up to 50MB, not their theoretical maximum. I'm considering a faster one with 4 drives or more for the future.

By the way, there used to be a replacement plexi insert for the G5 that allowed two or four more hard drives to be installed. I'll see if I can figure out the name.

It was called the G5 Jam

Other World Computing / Macsales still lists a G5 Jive hard drive solution. Might be worth giving them a call if you need the storage in your current setup badly, while evaluating synology and/or other NAS options.

This is great!!!! Thank you!!

I think I will go for the Synology NAS for off site storage, back the full server up on site and then install this off-site and let it run differential backups using Crash Plan (which is free) to add any new or changed to the backup. That way I also have a server at home that mirrors the one at work, which is very nice for those long evenings of work at home of for keeping files in "one" place (Iwould ;-) This seems like the cheapest and leanest, and I can then if it runs well, upgrade the G5 at work to another Synology NAS, paying close attention to your pointers.


THANKS!!!!!

You are welcome.

Couple more thoughts. I think most people are pleased with Synology. Their products (like Apple stuff) are a bit spendy, but they support them pretty well, and aren't some business where no-one is around. They do respond and will connect to your system to investigate when you need help. (needed it once) They are always pushing out new DSM updates too, so you don't immediately feel stuck with what you bought (been there done that with other brands where there's never a firmware update or bug fix; just buy a new unit for the new features). They've been supporting older hardware with new software for about 4 years. I would advise though to let their DSM (disk station manager) updates mature a few months before installing them, and don't go the beta route with a production system. One good thing they did recently is split the DSM and have a package center, so updates to apps / services can happen independently & faster.

And, again, regarding your needs, models & speed; maybe put the question out in the synology forum. Lots of friendly folks there, some of which have half a dozen synod they work with.

Thanks again for this, this is really good.... I'll head over to that Synology forum and describe my choices to see what comes back. Thanks again!

[icerabbit]

rolfknudsen, on 24 January 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

icerabbit, on 24 January 2013 - 11:54 AM, said:

rolfknudsen, on 23 January 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

icerabbit, on 19 January 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

PS:
And what I'm trying to say basically regarding the Synology speed is, that there are a lot of factors involved. You have to have a fast model, install fast drives from the approved compatibility list and have the right raid option that will write the data across many drives. Then connect using a fast protocol (SMB seems slower than AFP). Write speed depends on the size of files written. Etc. Our first dual drive synology unit, many years old with green WD drives only gives 20MB real world, our second one gives us up to 50MB, not their theoretical maximum. I'm considering a faster one with 4 drives or more for the future.

By the way, there used to be a replacement plexi insert for the G5 that allowed two or four more hard drives to be installed. I'll see if I can figure out the name.

It was called the G5 Jam

Other World Computing / Macsales still lists a G5 Jive hard drive solution. Might be worth giving them a call if you need the storage in your current setup badly, while evaluating synology and/or other NAS options.

This is great!!!! Thank you!!

I think I will go for the Synology NAS for off site storage, back the full server up on site and then install this off-site and let it run differential backups using Crash Plan (which is free) to add any new or changed to the backup. That way I also have a server at home that mirrors the one at work, which is very nice for those long evenings of work at home of for keeping files in "one" place (Iwould ;-) This seems like the cheapest and leanest, and I can then if it runs well, upgrade the G5 at work to another Synology NAS, paying close attention to your pointers.


THANKS!!!!!

You are welcome.

Couple more thoughts. I think most people are pleased with Synology. Their products (like Apple stuff) are a bit spendy, but they support them pretty well, and aren't some business where no-one is around. They do respond and will connect to your system to investigate when you need help. (needed it once) They are always pushing out new DSM updates too, so you don't immediately feel stuck with what you bought (been there done that with other brands where there's never a firmware update or bug fix; just buy a new unit for the new features). They've been supporting older hardware with new software for about 4 years. I would advise though to let their DSM (disk station manager) updates mature a few months before installing them, and don't go the beta route with a production system. One good thing they did recently is split the DSM and have a package center, so updates to apps / services can happen independently & faster.

And, again, regarding your needs, models & speed; maybe put the question out in the synology forum. Lots of friendly folks there, some of which have half a dozen synod they work with.

Thanks again for this, this is really good.... I'll head over to that Synology forum and describe my choices to see what comes back. Thanks again!

You also should take note of the file server performance sub forum. I don't visit the synology forum that often, but I noticed a rash of complaints about slow server performance in the past weeks.

So carefully evaluate your needs. Maybe even ask synology sales.