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I am new to the iMac and digital video. I have old 8mm tapes that I would like to archive to DVD so that they don't degrade over time. I have a Cannon ZR65MC camcorder which allows analog to digital passthrough, but I have several questions. First, in using this to pass through analog video to digital will I have a problem with digital/audio sync? Am I better off using an AV to DV converter? What is the best way to convert hours of 8mm camcorder tapes to digital...do I import these to iMovie and then stitch them together and burn them in iDVD? If so, is that pretty straightforward for just archiving purposes? Does anyone have any recommendations, suggestions, articles, etc? Thanks so much!
Archiving Videos via iMovie and iDVD
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#2
CrecenS 
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Posted 22 October 2003 - 08:35 PM
In reply to:
First, in using this to pass through analog video to digital will I have a problem with digital/audio sync?
First, in using this to pass through analog video to digital will I have a problem with digital/audio sync?
I don't see why. try it!
In reply to:
Am I better off using an AV to DV converter?
Am I better off using an AV to DV converter?
Not yet.
In reply to:
hat is the best way to convert hours of 8mm camcorder tapes to digital...do I import these to iMovie and then stitch them together and burn them in iDVD?
hat is the best way to convert hours of 8mm camcorder tapes to digital...do I import these to iMovie and then stitch them together and burn them in iDVD?
Yes, that sounds good.
Plus, after you have imported the video, you can edit out stuff that you may not want! Finish, export to iDVD, and make digital copies.
#3
ftaok
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Posted 23 October 2003 - 11:42 AM
Instead of archiving your footage to DVD, you could archive them to a miniDV tape. That way, you won't lose any quality in the conversion from DV-->mpeg2. (NOTE - I realize that you probably wouldn't lose too much since your source material is from regular 8mm tapes).
What you could do is either copy them directly from the 8mm camera to your ZR65. Alternatively, you could use your ZR65 as a pass through and import directly into iMovie. Then do as the above poster suggested and clip out the stuff you don't want. Then transfer that footage back to miniDV.
If the cost of miniDV tapes are prohibitive, you could archive the actual DV footage onto a DVD (meaning that you don't use iDVD and don't convert to mpeg2).
What you could do is either copy them directly from the 8mm camera to your ZR65. Alternatively, you could use your ZR65 as a pass through and import directly into iMovie. Then do as the above poster suggested and clip out the stuff you don't want. Then transfer that footage back to miniDV.
If the cost of miniDV tapes are prohibitive, you could archive the actual DV footage onto a DVD (meaning that you don't use iDVD and don't convert to mpeg2).
#4
Czachorski
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Posted 23 October 2003 - 03:46 PM
I struggled with the same questions a year ago when I switched to Mac for the same exact reason that you did - the convert, archive and edit my analog 8 mm videos. At first, I started capturing everything through my DV bridge and then archiving to DVD. But I then realized that it was a huge pain to go back and edit those archived videos, because it takes so long to convert mpeg2 back to DV stream for editing in an application in iMovie, not to mention all the hastles with the sound and video muxed on 1 track on mpeg2 and the issues with audio sync, etc.
What I ended up doing is capturing all my videos in DV stream and archiving them on my HD with a back-up on a data DVD in a quicktime file using the mpeg4 codec. With setting of 320x240, 30 fps and the "high"quality setting (2nd highest) the mpeg4 files are about 2 GB per hour. Therefore, I can fit about 2 hours or one 8 mm tape on a single data DVD. I played around with the settings for quicktime files and tons of codec and options, including sorenson, mpeg4, mpeg1, and others for hours in order to find that right balanace between small file size and quality. I feel that these compressed videos are 99% the quality as the original footage, and they look great. Let's face it, the original source quality of analog video is not all that great anyway, and you should be able to tolerate a little compression with very little loss in quality. I have archived nearly 100 hours of video in this manner, and have 100 hours available at my fingertips for editing with them stored on an extra HD in my G4 PowerMac. Now I have a nice archive of all my videos, backed up on data DVD, and can go back and edit them later to my hearts content. I have made montages of my girls growing up to show at their bday parties, videos of xmas pasts, precious edits from the day they were born, from our wedding, etc, etc.
One disadvantage of archiving in this manner is that your archives are not capable of being played on a DVD player. However, what I have found is that watching the "raw footage" right on the computer has been fine, and what I really want to watch on the DVD player and the big screen TV is the edited video with the cuts, fades, music, photos, etc. So after I finish a bunch of edits, I throw them on a DVD and that is what we watch.
Just some thoughts on what worked for me. I hope I provided you with at least a few ideas for how to tackle your project.
What I ended up doing is capturing all my videos in DV stream and archiving them on my HD with a back-up on a data DVD in a quicktime file using the mpeg4 codec. With setting of 320x240, 30 fps and the "high"quality setting (2nd highest) the mpeg4 files are about 2 GB per hour. Therefore, I can fit about 2 hours or one 8 mm tape on a single data DVD. I played around with the settings for quicktime files and tons of codec and options, including sorenson, mpeg4, mpeg1, and others for hours in order to find that right balanace between small file size and quality. I feel that these compressed videos are 99% the quality as the original footage, and they look great. Let's face it, the original source quality of analog video is not all that great anyway, and you should be able to tolerate a little compression with very little loss in quality. I have archived nearly 100 hours of video in this manner, and have 100 hours available at my fingertips for editing with them stored on an extra HD in my G4 PowerMac. Now I have a nice archive of all my videos, backed up on data DVD, and can go back and edit them later to my hearts content. I have made montages of my girls growing up to show at their bday parties, videos of xmas pasts, precious edits from the day they were born, from our wedding, etc, etc.
One disadvantage of archiving in this manner is that your archives are not capable of being played on a DVD player. However, what I have found is that watching the "raw footage" right on the computer has been fine, and what I really want to watch on the DVD player and the big screen TV is the edited video with the cuts, fades, music, photos, etc. So after I finish a bunch of edits, I throw them on a DVD and that is what we watch.
Just some thoughts on what worked for me. I hope I provided you with at least a few ideas for how to tackle your project.
#6
Czachorski
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Posted 28 October 2003 - 06:33 PM
Yes I have and it works fine.
Because the source quality of analog video is only around 250 lines of resultion anyway, when you capture in DV stream at 720 x 480, you are basically already upsizing. I did a lot of extensive testing when I decided to use this for my archive format. I took a DV stream file and played it side by side against a 320x240 mpge4 with the mpeg4 at double size (200%) in quicktime, so both were basically the same vertcial size on the screen, and I could hardly tell a difference. When I say hardly, I mean that I could trick myself into thinking sometimes that the mpeg4 actually looked better, and other times with other scenes, I thought that maybe the original was a little better.
I then did test comparing DV stream at 200% to the mpeg4 at 400%, again, resulting in both taking up the same vertical space on the screen. What I noticed at this ridiculous enlargement was that the background of the DV stream (like trees off in the distance) was indeed slightly more crisp, however the solid surfaces (from like a t-shirt in the foreground, or a car) of the DV stream appeared staticy and noisy, while the mpeg4 was smoother. I figure this might have been because the DV stream was filling in data on the solid surfaces that it did not really record from the source, and therefore resulting in noise, whereas the mpeg4 was just making the pixels larger, and therefore they appeared more solid and smoother. I conisdered this test a draw.
The final, and most convincing test was when I burned both videos to a DVD and viewed them on my 30-inch TV. I could not tell the difference at all. I mean absolutely indistinguishable. I figure this is probable because the mpeg2 compression on the DVD ended up with nearly the same information from both the mpeg4 and the DV stream, given that the source video was only analog.
After all this testing, I am happy with the archive format that I picked. It certainly worked for me. But these are your precious videos, and you may have a different discerning eye than I do. I would suggest going through these exercises with your own videos and see what you think!
Good luck.
Because the source quality of analog video is only around 250 lines of resultion anyway, when you capture in DV stream at 720 x 480, you are basically already upsizing. I did a lot of extensive testing when I decided to use this for my archive format. I took a DV stream file and played it side by side against a 320x240 mpge4 with the mpeg4 at double size (200%) in quicktime, so both were basically the same vertcial size on the screen, and I could hardly tell a difference. When I say hardly, I mean that I could trick myself into thinking sometimes that the mpeg4 actually looked better, and other times with other scenes, I thought that maybe the original was a little better.
I then did test comparing DV stream at 200% to the mpeg4 at 400%, again, resulting in both taking up the same vertical space on the screen. What I noticed at this ridiculous enlargement was that the background of the DV stream (like trees off in the distance) was indeed slightly more crisp, however the solid surfaces (from like a t-shirt in the foreground, or a car) of the DV stream appeared staticy and noisy, while the mpeg4 was smoother. I figure this might have been because the DV stream was filling in data on the solid surfaces that it did not really record from the source, and therefore resulting in noise, whereas the mpeg4 was just making the pixels larger, and therefore they appeared more solid and smoother. I conisdered this test a draw.
The final, and most convincing test was when I burned both videos to a DVD and viewed them on my 30-inch TV. I could not tell the difference at all. I mean absolutely indistinguishable. I figure this is probable because the mpeg2 compression on the DVD ended up with nearly the same information from both the mpeg4 and the DV stream, given that the source video was only analog.
After all this testing, I am happy with the archive format that I picked. It certainly worked for me. But these are your precious videos, and you may have a different discerning eye than I do. I would suggest going through these exercises with your own videos and see what you think!
Good luck.
#8
Jetaway_Dave
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 02:16 AM
Czachorski wrote:
What I ended up doing is capturing all my videos in DV stream and archiving them on my HD with a back-up on a data DVD in a quicktime file using the mpeg4 codec. With setting of 320x240, 30 fps and the "high"quality setting (2nd highest) the mpeg4 files are about 2 GB per hour. Therefore, I can fit about 2 hours or one 8 mm tape on a single data DVD. I played around with the settings for quicktime files and tons of codec and options, including sorenson, mpeg4, mpeg1, and others for hours in order to find that right balanace between small file size and quality. I feel that these compressed videos are 99% the quality as the original footage, and they look great. Let's face it, the original source quality of analog video is not all that great anyway, and you should be able to tolerate a little compression with very little loss in quality.
====
I'm new to digital video and had no particular interest in the topic -- just slow surfing late at night -- and I just have to say. Thanks, man. I teach at a minor University (just kidding on the minor;)) and six weeks ago, due to an accident by an unknown colleage in another department, scored a G4 Powerbook for my own use (wouldn't charge or run when I got it and one of the display hinge brackets was shattered into a million pieces or so, but a little 'nothing to lose' poking around and a decidely non-authorized, non-Apple part, got it up and running) and quickly realized that I could use it to play video clips in class, and rather effortlessly compared with the PVT to VHS tape to call and reserve VHS, pick up VHS, return VHS routine which netted maybe two minutes of instructional material at the cost of 30 minutes set-up time. Alas, I did, however, quickly figure out that the HD could store maybe an hour of DV stream material before becoming uncomfortably close to filling up. I followed your guidelines above for conversion to MPEG4, compared the DV to the MPEG4 and found, for my purposes, no difference at all in quality. I test burned a CD, played back fine, and now I can let the HD breathe again.
Thanks,
Jetaway Dave
What I ended up doing is capturing all my videos in DV stream and archiving them on my HD with a back-up on a data DVD in a quicktime file using the mpeg4 codec. With setting of 320x240, 30 fps and the "high"quality setting (2nd highest) the mpeg4 files are about 2 GB per hour. Therefore, I can fit about 2 hours or one 8 mm tape on a single data DVD. I played around with the settings for quicktime files and tons of codec and options, including sorenson, mpeg4, mpeg1, and others for hours in order to find that right balanace between small file size and quality. I feel that these compressed videos are 99% the quality as the original footage, and they look great. Let's face it, the original source quality of analog video is not all that great anyway, and you should be able to tolerate a little compression with very little loss in quality.
====
I'm new to digital video and had no particular interest in the topic -- just slow surfing late at night -- and I just have to say. Thanks, man. I teach at a minor University (just kidding on the minor;)) and six weeks ago, due to an accident by an unknown colleage in another department, scored a G4 Powerbook for my own use (wouldn't charge or run when I got it and one of the display hinge brackets was shattered into a million pieces or so, but a little 'nothing to lose' poking around and a decidely non-authorized, non-Apple part, got it up and running) and quickly realized that I could use it to play video clips in class, and rather effortlessly compared with the PVT to VHS tape to call and reserve VHS, pick up VHS, return VHS routine which netted maybe two minutes of instructional material at the cost of 30 minutes set-up time. Alas, I did, however, quickly figure out that the HD could store maybe an hour of DV stream material before becoming uncomfortably close to filling up. I followed your guidelines above for conversion to MPEG4, compared the DV to the MPEG4 and found, for my purposes, no difference at all in quality. I test burned a CD, played back fine, and now I can let the HD breathe again.
Thanks,
Jetaway Dave
#9
Czachorski
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Posted 12 November 2003 - 01:24 PM
Glad to hear it helped.
For the "videofiles" out there with 3 CCD digital camcorders, the meg4 compresson I suggested would probably reduce the quality significantly, but for analog source material, it works great. I love this digital revolution that we are currently living in. I love the concept of toting videos around compressed to reasonable file size on a laptop. I love the portability of digital music and digital photos. My Mac is my digital hub.
For the "videofiles" out there with 3 CCD digital camcorders, the meg4 compresson I suggested would probably reduce the quality significantly, but for analog source material, it works great. I love this digital revolution that we are currently living in. I love the concept of toting videos around compressed to reasonable file size on a laptop. I love the portability of digital music and digital photos. My Mac is my digital hub.
#10
jeffeyer
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Posted 21 November 2003 - 04:31 PM
I plan to buy an analog video converter for my G5 next week. I quite do not understand about a DV. Is this stand for digital video? What is the name of your converter?
I am very pleasant to hear that you have made success in making videos for better quality. When I get the converter, I will use iMovie. It sounds that you found another way around it. Where did you find the mpge4? Is it from "paid" Quicktime software?
I am very pleasant to hear that you have made success in making videos for better quality. When I get the converter, I will use iMovie. It sounds that you found another way around it. Where did you find the mpge4? Is it from "paid" Quicktime software?
#11
Daft&Dewey-eyed
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 03:06 PM
DV is a standard consumer format of digital video. The format was originally called DVC, for Digital Video Cassette, but has been shortened to DV. There are many formats of digital video in the professional video realm, but DV (and variants like Digital 8) is the only digital format widely available to consumers.
DV is a digital stream of data that runs at 25 Mbps. It carries a video signal that is compressed at a ratio of 5:1 with color sampling at 4:1:1, and a picture size of 720x480 pixels. (That's for NTSC. If you use PAL, those numbers will vary somewhat.)
DV can be transmitted over a FireWire cable without transcoding. This makes it very easy to get in and out of a computer. iMovie works only with video in the DV codec.
There are a number of analog to DV converters available. The best one under $300 is the Canopus ADVC-100
The MPEG4 encoder is available through QuickTime Pro version 6.1 or higher.
DV is a digital stream of data that runs at 25 Mbps. It carries a video signal that is compressed at a ratio of 5:1 with color sampling at 4:1:1, and a picture size of 720x480 pixels. (That's for NTSC. If you use PAL, those numbers will vary somewhat.)
DV can be transmitted over a FireWire cable without transcoding. This makes it very easy to get in and out of a computer. iMovie works only with video in the DV codec.
There are a number of analog to DV converters available. The best one under $300 is the Canopus ADVC-100
The MPEG4 encoder is available through QuickTime Pro version 6.1 or higher.
#12
Czachorski
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Posted 22 November 2003 - 03:14 PM
DV is freuquently used as jargon for Digital Video, but DV stream is also a video codec (compression/decompression format like mpeg1 or mpeg2). DV stream is the codec that is used by digital camcorders, and the format the comes right into iMovie and iDVD. I am exporting to mpeg4 from iMovie. Basically, I am creating a quicktime movie, with an mpeg4 codec selected, using the file->export->expert settings. Under the 'video" tab in that menu, there is a pull-down with dozens of codecs to create you quicktime movie with. mpeg4 is one of them.
I do indeed have quicktime pro, which is well worth the $29 upgrade price for all the codecs and functionality that it provides. What I can not remember is whether the quicktime pro upgrade is needed to be able to export mpeg4 from iMovie. Maybe someone here can help out with that. Quicktime pro is extremely useful, because it can covert between so many video and audio file formats. I think it is worth it.
I have a Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge. It is also an excellent tool. I have been extremely happy with it. It will take in any analog RCA or s-video signal, convert it to digital and send it to the Mac via firewire. iMovie recoginizes it as a camcorder, it imports the video beautifully. There are many other manufacturers of these capture devices, like formac and canapus. It is my understanding they all work reasonable similar, with a DV stream import to iMovie. Watch out for el gatos eyeTV and other low resolution type converters that only import in mpeg1 and not DV stream. These might produce a video quality that you are not happy with.
Now I am probably going to take some heat from some other members here for being wary of mpeg1, which recrods at 320x240, when I am archiving to mpeg4 at 320 x 240, I suppose. However, I like the option of downsampling to mpeg4 for archiving purposes. I also like the ability to keep the 720x480 of DV stream for some of the better footage imported from my Hi-8. Plus it is nice to be able to import from DVDs at high res too.
Good luck!
I do indeed have quicktime pro, which is well worth the $29 upgrade price for all the codecs and functionality that it provides. What I can not remember is whether the quicktime pro upgrade is needed to be able to export mpeg4 from iMovie. Maybe someone here can help out with that. Quicktime pro is extremely useful, because it can covert between so many video and audio file formats. I think it is worth it.
I have a Dazzle Hollywood DV bridge. It is also an excellent tool. I have been extremely happy with it. It will take in any analog RCA or s-video signal, convert it to digital and send it to the Mac via firewire. iMovie recoginizes it as a camcorder, it imports the video beautifully. There are many other manufacturers of these capture devices, like formac and canapus. It is my understanding they all work reasonable similar, with a DV stream import to iMovie. Watch out for el gatos eyeTV and other low resolution type converters that only import in mpeg1 and not DV stream. These might produce a video quality that you are not happy with.
Now I am probably going to take some heat from some other members here for being wary of mpeg1, which recrods at 320x240, when I am archiving to mpeg4 at 320 x 240, I suppose. However, I like the option of downsampling to mpeg4 for archiving purposes. I also like the ability to keep the 720x480 of DV stream for some of the better footage imported from my Hi-8. Plus it is nice to be able to import from DVDs at high res too.
Good luck!
#14
Macpaul
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Posted 29 November 2003 - 12:45 PM
I know I've read it somewhere here but can't find it. I finally figured out how to get DV into imovie but the continuity is interupted by a disc that is to slow. It wants to break everything into short clips. How can I capture the whole tape to disc uninterrupted? /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
