[BigFatDuck]

i'm a little confused. i just spent an hour going through my shared itunes library (shared between 2 users although this isn't as functional as it may sound) correcting info such as track name, album, artist, etc. only to realize none of the updated info found it's way into the other user's library. i guess i always assumed changing the info in itunes was actually correcting the file names, but apparently this isn't the case. i've never really understood ID3 tags, or rather i always assumed it tagged all this useful info to the audio files so that if you burned a data cd, for instance, it would have the info in case you wanted to import the data onto another machine (it's entirely possible these were incorrect assumptions). now i notice that itunes has a feature to "convert ID3 tag", but only for mp3 files. interesting. i'm also aware that i can copy my playlist file to the other user, but that doesn't solve the problem of actually correcting file names.
so now i'm assuming that changing the track info in itunes does nothing more than change the file that keeps track of playlist info, so all that work and i still have a giant folder full of incorrectly named files. wonderful. is there something i'm missing here?

[Nobody]

BFD, I'm about as in the dark as you, but I think that the ID3 tags simply address the information kept inside the music file, whereas you can name the file anything you want.
Hopefully someone smarter than us will shine some light in this corner.
tommaso

[Duke_Thomas]

In reply to:

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i'm also aware that i can copy my playlist file to the other user, but that doesn't solve the problem of actually correcting file names.

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I assume by "playlist file" you mean the "iTunes Music Library" files inside of "~/Music/iTunes" (or wherever you have it stored)? So, if I understand this correctly, your two users have different library files, but share many of the same music files? If these suppositions are incorrect, the rest of my post will be useless to you. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Also, all this is with iTunes 4.5, though I would imagine it holds for previous versions.

In reply to:

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so now i'm assuming that changing the track info in itunes does nothing more than change the file that keeps track of playlist info, so all that work and i still have a giant folder full of incorrectly named files. wonderful. is there something i'm missing here?

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I believe what you're missing is the whole purpose of the library files. iTunes does change the ID3 tags for the music files. However, iTunes does not read and interpret every file in your entire music library to find the ID3 tags every time you launch the program. Rather, these vital statistics are stored in the Library file. In this way all the information can be read in a contiguous couple of megabytes of your library file, instead of iTunes having to hunt for all the information across a few thousand discontinuous blocks on your disk -- also it allows song data for files like WAVs that don't have something as expressive as ID3 tags. So, the files are different, but the data iTunes uses at start up is the stored library, which has not been modified for this other user.
As far as what to do, I don't have a shared library to experiment with, but I tried editing the ID3 tag outside of iTunes and seeing how iTunes reacted. If the number of songs displayed is less than a certain threshold number T, then iTunes checks the modification dates of the music files. It validates if the information is current if the mod date is newer than the library files. T is somewhere between 86 and 4. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also, iTunes performed the same validation if I tried playing the file. There may be other ways to perform some kind of mass validation -- get info on everything, perhaps?
If that doesn't help, first, have you checked to make sure they're the same files? Second, if users A and B share a library, and B has only read access, then changes B makes will be located entirely within B's library file and not be reflected within the music files themselves.
I didn't understand everything in your post. I'm a little confused about what you mean about "correcting the file names?"

In reply to:

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now i notice that itunes has a feature to "convert ID3 tag", but only for mp3 files. interesting.

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(Incidentally, I informally used "ID3 tag" in the above to refer to any scheme of storing non-song data.) I believe iTunes only supports ID3 for MP3 files. For example, AAC has its own scheme for storing non-song data.

[BigFatDuck]

i guess my biggest confusion comes from the fact that the music library is located in users -> shared -> itunes music. both users have read/write access to that folder and all it's contents. so as i was going through changing all the information such as ARTIST (for instance, fixing misspellings so that there isn't a "Beetles" and a "Beatles" folder in the music library), GENRE (so when i browse to classic rock -> Beatles it shows every Beatles songs I own, not excluding ones improperly labeled plain old "rock"), etc. etc.
i assumed it was changing the information kept in the shared itunes music folder. but when i opened itunes with the other user, none of those changes had been made. there would still be a "beetles" and "beatles", as if i had done nothing. now that i take a closer look, the changes are in fact reflected in the actual itunes music folder in the finder, which is what i meant by correcting the file information (if i change the name of a song in itunes, it changes the actual file name as seen from the finder or burned to a data cd). this is where i'm confused, i thought itunes used that info to display track info, not the "itunes 4 music library" file that also keeps track of playlist info, etc. does that make sense? seems kind of odd to me. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[BigFatDuck]

this is the problem i'm currently having and desperate to find a solution as it's very frustrating. both users can (finally) add music to the shared music folder via itunes, however if user A adds the files, user B will not see them in his/her library, and visa versa. if i happen to remember off the top of my head exactly what is missing, i can go into the finder and find the files that aren't showing up in the itunes library and drag them into itunes adding it to the visible library, but i've already run into a situation where i imported a cd full of several albums with one user and i can't remember what they were to import into the other user. i could sort by date added if i hadn't been messing around with swapping the "itunes 4 music library" files trying to get both users to be able to share the same file (unsuccessfull)..... so now i basically have some music on my computer that i can't use because itunes doesn't see it- even though it was imported with itunes into the itunes music folder. not cool, especially since the music folder viewed in the finder is sorted by artist -> album -> song, which makes it next to impossible to find an album by various artists.
add on top of that the fact that i will have this problem each and every time one of the users decides to import new music. apple is trying to market it's OS as an easy to use multi-user digital hub, but this is a big problem that needs a simple user friendly solution.

[Duke_Thomas]

To summarize the point of my previous post: The "iTunes 4 Music Library" is used to keep track of the library playlist. If these files are different for both users, you will not achieve the type of synchronization you are looking for.

In reply to:

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now that i take a closer look, the changes are in fact reflected in the actual itunes music folder in the finder, which is what i meant by correcting the file information (if i change the name of a song in itunes, it changes the actual file name as seen from the finder or burned to a data cd).

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No, that has nothing to do with anything. Yes, iTunes produces (or can produce) a directory structure that reflects the structure within a user's library. Microsoft Word produces pieces of paper that reflect the contents of a document. Changes in the directory structure will not be reflected in the music library any more than crossing out words on the paper changes the document. Only the library affects the library.

[BigFatDuck]

i understand what you're saying, and i'm looking for a solution to the problems that this causes. i would be glad to share the "itunes 4 music library" file to solve this, but i can't seem to figure out a way so that both users are still able to import music and therefore defeating the purpose. at this point the only solution i can think of is to ditch the multi-user set up in favor of sharing 1 username on the system to avoid all of the complications that permissions cause. it seems either way i'm sacrificing functionality and i really don't think that should be the case. is there a reliable way of making alias' of the "itunes 4 music library" and arranging it so that both users are able to import music and make changes to the library data that are seen by both users or am i wasting my time? i've seen this topic come up several times and from all the information i've gathered i still can't get it to work. i ended up having to keep the itunes music folder in one of the users' shared folders (with the other user's itunes pointing directly to that file) as apposed to the system shared folder because after countless other configs this is the only way it would allow both users to import music, and now both users importing music is causing an even greater problem (lost music). UGH.

[Duke_Thomas]

In reply to:

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i would be glad to share the "itunes 4 music library" file to solve this, but i can't seem to figure out a way so that both users are still able to import music and therefore defeating the purpose.

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I have managed to get this working without much trouble. (Writing up these directions took far longer! /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) You appear to have some convoluted setup to get your shared setup (kind of) working for you, but if you can manage to, you can follow my directions starting from the default setup of iTunes (where the library is stored at ~/Music/iTunes).
The end result of these directions is to have users have an iTunes library that is shared in (almost) all respects. (See caveats at the end for problems.)
Create a Group
You don't NEED to create a group. You could just make your iTunes folder world writable and accessible in the steps below. However, for obvious reasons you would probably consider this unacceptable. Instead, the idea is to restrict access to a particular group of users.
The following directions assume you haven't done anything strange with how you're set up, for example have configured Netinfo strangely, or are using LDAP to get system configuration, or some other such weirdness. Of course, if you're the type that did any of those things, you'd surely know how to adapt my directions to your situation. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
First, you want to check that there are no conflicts. My plan is to create a group "musicshare" with group id 1123.
niutil -read / /groups/gid=1123; niutil -read / /groups/name=musicshare.
If everything is good, the result from that should be
niutil: can't open directory /groups/gid=1123: No such directory
niutil: can't open directory /groups/name=musicshare: No such directory
If you get those error messages, then neither of those entries exists yet -- you may proceed with the following creation of groups. (If it actually finds something for either query, that would be extremely strange, but you can adjust the parameters to a different gid number or group name depending on what it found, and continue.)
Create the group directory.
sudo niutil -create / /groups/musicshare
Set the groups group id number.
sudo niutil -createprop / /groups/musicshare gid 1123
I don't know if the following is necessary, but the other groups seemed to have it...
sudo niutil -createprop / /groups/musicshare passwd ''
List the users you want in this group -- instead of tom, dick, and harry, you'd insert the short user names of the users you want.
sudo niutil -createprop / /groups/musicshare users tom dick harry

You can check to make sure everything went smoothly.
niutil -read / /groups/musicshare
If everything is good:
name: musicshare
gid: 1123
passwd:
users: tom dick harry
You could also do all this within the "NetInfo Manager", but this tool is mostly only useful for browsing through data -- its interface for creating data is quite unwieldy.
Set up the iTunes Folder
Now, we want to move the iTunes folder, and set it up properly. If "tom" is the user with the iTunes folder we want to share with "dick" and "harry", within "tom"'s account execute:
mv ~/Music/iTunes ~/Public
We then change ownership of this folder so that (1) the folder and all of its contents are for the group "musicshare", (2) every directory may be traversed by people in the musicshare group, and (3) everything is group writable and readable.
sudo chown -R :musicshare ~/Public/iTunes
find ~/Public/iTunes -type d -print -exec chmod gx {} ;
chmod -R grw ~/Public/iTunes
Set up the Users
For each user in the musicshare group, have them create a symbolic link, not an alias, to the iTunes folder in the public user. If they already have a ~/Music/iTunes directory, move it aside. To create the symbolic link, every user would input the command:
ln -s ~tom/Public/iTunes ~/Music/iTunes
Obviously, substitute "tom" with whomever is providing the iTunes public folder.
This appears to do it for me.
Caveats
One potential problem that springs to mind is that if you don't have all your music stored within your iTunes folder, other users will probably not be able to access those particular music files. If this is the case, you might try doing "Consolidate Library."
I tried importing under this scheme. New imports show up just fine. However, while old files will be group readable and writable, iTunes appears to create new imports which are group readable but not writable. It is unclear what practical importance this will have since as I say iTunes gets the non-song data from the library file, which will remain writable by anyone in the group. However, you may have to reset everything group writable within the Public/iTunes folder, if it ever becomes a problem for whatever you're trying to do.

[Duke_Thomas]

Oh, and yes, I absolutely agree that an easier way would be nice. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[BigFatDuck]

:O from the looks of those directions it's all done in the terminal, is this right? is that the only way to get this accomplished? :O

[Duke_Thomas]

In reply to:

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:O from the looks of those directions it's all done in the terminal, is this right?

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Absolutely.

In reply to:

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is that the only way to get this accomplished? :O

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I do not know how to define symbolic links outside of the terminal. Everything else is certainly GUI-able. However, it's obviously far more efficient to say "enter this command" than "open up the netinfo manager, click on the fifth throbbing button, double click on the table entry, spin in your chair, select such and such from the pull down menu, and press return." /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[BigFatDuck]

^%#^(&^#$((^$

i just followed everything to the T. after doing so i opened itunes in both users to make sure they were both working properly. then i spent about an hour going through fixing missing links (for some reason everytime i move the library around at all there's a fairly large handful of select songs that lose the original file and need to be located manually again, even though they're still where they've always been- with the rest of the music all kept in the itunes music folder). then i created a new playlist in user B to test things out. moved over to user A and GUESS WHAT! the new playlist is not there, and all those songs with missing links still have the missing links- but only in that user. on to the next test, i imported a new song. worked fine (keep in mind user A now has the itunes folder in her user -> public folder) and created a new playlist. moved back to user B- new song isn't there!* and the new playlist i created with the other user isn't there (but the one i had created with this user was still there). fine, if i can at least import music with each user, even if i have to try desperately to keep track of new imported music with both users to maintain equal libraries, i will give up with the rest and move on with my life. tried importing a new song with user B:
YOU DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH ACCESS PRIVILEGES FOR THIS OPERATION. where's that bottle of xanax........

[Duke_Thomas]

As I said, my instructions will only work if you start with default setups for iTunes. The library file for one of these users is not stored within the actual iTunes music folder, so it does not meet those criteria.

[BigFatDuck]

before following these directions i went ahead and moved the itunes music folder back to the default location user -> music -> itunes -> itunes music. at that point there were default settings on everything. i then followed your instructions exactly. both users are able to see itunes as it was in user A before, but user A is the only one able to import, and both users are able to make changes within itunes but the other user won't see those changes.