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How stop Finder process when copy or move hangs?

#1 User is offline   nnager 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 11:48 AM

A 266-mhz Mac with 768 mb RAM, on occasion, will hang in the midst of either moving or copying a lot of files. Sometimes, even before moving or copying the first of the files. Occasionally, I forget that its CPU is limited.
(I'm running OS 10.4.1, but the same problem occasionally happened when I was using Panther.)
Force-quit only quits out of applications, not the Finder processes. Re-launch Finder from the force-quit window only removes the Finder from the menubar. The machine refuses to log out because of an on ongoing process.
Do I have any option for stopping the copying or moving process short of killing the Mac's power?
Respectfully, Norm
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#2 User is offline   Nobody 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 04:48 PM

I would guess you find the file being copied and click once on it and use the Option Escape keys.
That's the shortcut to force an application to quit.
Edit: make that a folder or icon and click once and use the keys.
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#3 User is offline   nnager 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 05:44 PM

In reply to:

I would guess you find the (foolder or icon) being copied and click once on it and use the Option Escape keys. That's the shortcut to force an application to quit.

Thanks, Teckman, but the problem is that I have used that three-key combo and it will not affect the Finder processes. It will quit an appplication, but not the Finder process. The Finder is caught up in a spinning beachball, preventing clicking on the folder being copied or moved or actually even getting an active Finder menu.
Respectfully, Norm
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#4 User is offline   jmincey 

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Posted 22 May 2005 - 06:14 PM

"It will quit an appplication, but not the Finder process."
The Finder IS an application actually. Think of it as a file browsing application. Now how is it you conclude that in fact OS X does not force-terminate the Finder and then restart it? You say the menu disappears and returns -- this is how it should be.
You can always try a "kill -9" of the Finder from the command line, but that won't restart it for you. I think restarting the Finder is more problematic than simply to type...
    open /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app/Contents/MacOS/Finder -psn0655361
    or perhaps simply
    open /System/Library/CoreServices/Finder.app
    [/list]...but I'm not sure about that. I'm sure you could search the internet for a way to restart the Finder from a UNIX shell.
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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:13 AM

I think you would use the Activity Monitor for that glitch. And as ChrisBreen once explains, the Activity Monitor could identify the problematic app that is taking up the CPU processes. You might be able to launch the Activity Monitor without causing more spinning beachball effect. The app usually opens in the CPU process window. Just go down the column list of processes and click once on the process name and then the Stop sign. If that don't cut it, which it usually does, you have to go for the Restart from the apple menu which from most times would save your stuff.
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#6 User is offline   jmincey 

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 05:09 AM

You make a good point about the Activity Monitor except that in the event the problematic app is the Finder itself, then will the Activity Monitor likewise restart it or does the restart function take place only when one uses the option-command-escape route?
Obviously there needs to be some provision for having the Finder do a full restart of itself (if indeed it is the problematic app in the first place, of course).
If the user cannot access Activity Monitor for whatever reason, (and frankly I think this is the best idea yet so give it a try), from the command line type "tops" and you can view cpu usage there as well.
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#7 User is offline   nnager 

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 01:07 PM

Thanks very much, teckman and jmincey.
I just learned a valuable lesson about being able to stop a process from the Activity Monitor. I knew how to check CPU usage, not about clicking on the process to bring up "stop".
1. If the Finder's move or copy operation is hanging, would you know what word/s to look for in the Activity Monitor's listing of processes?
2. I know only that "command line" refers to a UNIX operation. By "command line" do you refer to the the Terminal utility or something else, please?
Respectfully, Norm
Postscript: I entered "tops" in the Terminal and got confused by the following so I have a feeling you're referring to something other than entering it the Terminal????
tops [-help] [-dont] [-semiverbose] [-verbose] [-nocontext] [-nofileinfo]
(-scriptfile scriptname) |
(find <search
pattern>
[where (<symbol>...) isOneOf {(<match>...)...}] ...) |
(replace <searchpattern> with <replacementpattern> | same
[where (<symbol>...) isOneOf {(<match>...)...}]...
[within (<symbol>) {...}]...
[error <message>]
[warning <message>]) |
(replacemethod <selector> with <newselector>
{ [replace <symbol> with <symbol
replacement>]... }
[where (<symbol>...) isOneOf {(<match> ...)...}]...
[within (<symbol>) {...}]...
[error <message>]
[warning <message>])
[-classfile classfile]
[filename ...]
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#8 User is offline   Reboot 

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 02:30 PM

You got it right, use terminal, but enter top, not tops.
In Activity Monitor look for something using a large percentage of the cpu.
No one asked yet, what third party items do you have installed? For example in System Preferences, is there anythhing under Other? Any anti-vrus or disk tools of any kind installed? How much stuff is plugged into your USB or Firewire, disconnect all items except keyboard and mouse and see if it works okay then.
Also you can try holding down the Shift key on startup till you see Safe Boot, this will disable any third party extensions. See if it works okay then.
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#9 User is offline   jmincey 

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 05:58 PM

Did I say tops? Wow -- I'm sorry about that. What was I thinking?
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#10 User is offline   nnager 

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Posted 23 May 2005 - 06:20 PM

I appreciate your concern and help, Reboot.
In reply to:

No one asked yet, what third party items do you have installed? For example in System Preferences, is there anything under Other? Any anti-vrus or disk tools of any kind installed? How much stuff is plugged into your USB or Firewire, disconnect all items except keyboard and mouse and see if it works okay then.
Also you can try holding down the Shift key on startup till you see Safe Boot, this will disable any third party extensions. See if it works okay then.



1. Safe boot (shift-down) does not work on my Beige G3 (rev A). Instead, even when everything else is in apple-pie order and checks out with TechTool Pro 4.0.4 and DiskWarrior 3.0.3, a shift-down startup produces a multi-language dialogue ordering a power button shutdown. No problem after the next re-start, just no Safe mode startup success. The keyboard is a stock (non-USB) extended Apple model for the G3.
2. Under "other" in System Preferences, I have RCDefault Apps and Macaroni. Both are recent versions for Tiger compatibility, but I have both on a G4, as well, and I have not had the hanging problems experienced on the occasional movement or copying of a quantity of files or the occasional ejection of several external FW drive volumes.
3. My greatest hunch is that the freezing in the midst of certain Finder processes may be because of the limited (266 mhz) CPU on the old Beige.
4. Another hunch is that the number of volumes, 4 on each of two internal hard drives and 6 on an external FW hard drive, may be too much for the CPU to handle. But the Finder process hanging has happended without the external FW HD connected. This also may be related to everything else the Finder processes are involved in, such as Spotlight indexing, although I seem to remember a few Finder freezes during the Beige's Panther use. In any event, I moved the external FW drives into Spotlight's Privacy exclusion from indexing.
5, Yet another hunch relates to my use of OS X versions that are not supported for my model by Apple. I'm currently running OS 10.4.1, enabled by XPostFacto 4.0b2 software. (My pre-builtin-USB technology era Beige was not supported by Apple for Panther. But I ran Panther from 10.3.0 through 10.3.9, enabled by XPostFacto 3.x alpha, beta and public-release software versions. The rev A Beige is also of the era of pre-builtin-in FireWire technology, which means it certainly was not supported by Apple for Tiger. Installation of 10.4 was enabled by XPF 4.0b2 and was able to use Software Update to move up to 10.4.1.
6. When the Beige freezes during a Finder move/copy/eject external volume process, I cannot access either the Terminal or the Activity monitor.
7. Strangely, after each forced shutdown, Tiger's Repair Permissions finds no problems. TechTool Pro 4.0.4's volume structure test is passed consistently. DiskWarrior 3.0.3's Volume Structure Rebuild works without incident or raising any trouble flags. TechTool Pro 4.0.4's Volume Maintenance (similar to DW's rebuild) also does indicate any problems as it's being performed.
How's that for a puzzler? f the freezes were consistent rather than sporadic, it would be easier to attempt to isolate the causal factors. I've copied and moved a couple gibabytes of files and folders from my G4 into and among Beige G3 partitions with only the occasional freeze.
Actually, the problems are minor because OS 10.4.1 is so rock-solid on the Beige that the forced shutdowns and even a power outage last night didn't cause a hiccup on re-start. (My G4 has APC UPS battery backup; the Beige G3 does not.)
Respectfully, Norm
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#11 User is offline   Reboot 

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 02:50 PM

I didn't even know there was a tops, so I learn from your error, no harm no foul. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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#12 User is offline   Reboot 

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 03:13 PM

1. You're getting a Kernel Panic with the Shift key down, probably because it's disabling Xpostfacto, I forgot you needed that for the beige machines.
2. RCD should be okay, but maybe Macaroni is trying to do something while you're copying? Disable it for a while.
3. Good possibility, just straining the old thing too much. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
4. Maybe it's just the flaky old beige ATA bus, since it also happened in Panther it may be. Does it only happen going internal to internal or does it do it with the FW drive involved, copying to or from the FW? If so does it only do it copying to or from one internal volume in particular?
5. Since it also happened in Panther I don't think Xposfacto is the problem.
6. If the dock can be accessed put icons for Terminal or Activity Monitor in the dock so you can access them if it happens.
7. The drives are probaly set for journaling, which helps keep the drive tidy after a crash, in a nutshell.
It is a stumper but you must admit, you've pretty much stretched every corner of that old beige box about as far as you can. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Add a processor upgrade and you'd have a true Frankenmac. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
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#13 User is offline   nnager 

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:26 PM

In reply to:

You're getting a Kernel Panic with the Shift key down, probably because it's disabling Xpostfacto, I forgot you needed that for the beige

Thanks. I have posted in one of the OWC forums for users of XPostFacto and the developer is looking into that as a bug fix for the next beta version of XPF 4.0b2.
In reply to:

Does it only happen going internal to internal or does it do it with the FW drive involved, copying to or from the FW? If so does it only do it copying to or from one internal volume in particular?

That was a hunch. So I tried moving a large number of files from a CD with the FW drive disconnected. Still happened. It's not related to any particular internal volume or drive.
In reply to:

If the dock can be accessed put icons for Terminal or Activity Monitor in the dock so you can access them if it happens

. Thanks very much. I've done that, just in case I can access either.
In reply to:

The drives are probaly set for journaling, which helps keep the drive tidy after a crash

Yes. And I guess that explains why OS X, especially, Tiger, is so rock-solid after those brute force shutdowns.
In reply to:

but you must admit, you've pretty much stretched every corner of that old beige box about as far as you can.


No way! ; -) Forget Tiger: When Lion (?) or Tabby Cat (or whatever Apple dubs 10.5 comes out, the old 266-mhz Beige will just respond to Apple and XPostFacto developers, "bring it on!"
Respectfully, Norm
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#14 User is offline   Reboot 

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Posted 24 May 2005 - 06:35 PM

In reply to:

No way! ; -) Forget Tiger: When Lion (?) or Tabby Cat (or whatever Apple dubs 10.5 comes out, the old 266-mhz Beige will just respond to Apple and XPostFacto developers, "bring it on!"

LOL. Here's to the pioneers, the trail blazers, the never say die's. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
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