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In its current form, the Apple TV won't follow in the world-altering footsteps of the iPod. With its simple setup, superb streaming, ease of use, and quality output, it's a great piece of gear, but it will have more-limited appeal than the iPod largely because of the nature of DRM and video. more
Apple TV
#2
hammer32 
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:20 PM
Good write-up! In my week with AppleTV I've tried a couple of movies (Cars, Pirates of the Caribbean II), and a National Geographic special. The movies looked good, but the NG special (Sacred Planet) looked horrible. It was very pixelated at times and always blurry.
My two big issues:
1. I use Netflix for movies right now and I won't replace that with my AppleTV until Apple decides to rent movies.
2. I've been putting off buying DVDs until I make the switch to BlueRay or HD-DVD. If Apple sold HD movies I could avoid that whole format war altogether.
AppleTV is a great start. I can't wait to see where they go with it!
-Sean /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
My two big issues:
1. I use Netflix for movies right now and I won't replace that with my AppleTV until Apple decides to rent movies.
2. I've been putting off buying DVDs until I make the switch to BlueRay or HD-DVD. If Apple sold HD movies I could avoid that whole format war altogether.
AppleTV is a great start. I can't wait to see where they go with it!
-Sean /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
#3
garyi
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:25 PM
I would say do not underestimate how this type of device will be received by the music buffs. There is a bit of a revolution going on right now with Squeezebox type devices, but somehow the apple TV is so much more 'shiny' for delivering content.
I am sat in front of one right now, through some fine UK HIFI electronics with the fantastic Frank Zappa blasting out. I am left wondering if I will need to pack my CDs into the loft.
I am sat in front of one right now, through some fine UK HIFI electronics with the fantastic Frank Zappa blasting out. I am left wondering if I will need to pack my CDs into the loft.
#4
k2director
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:35 PM
I'm shocked that this review says the quality of iTunes video content looks almost as good as a DVD when played on HD displays. The reviewer must have a really low standard for video quality, because every iTunes video clip I've watched on Apple TV has seemed noticeably low res, with lots of artifacts. This includes Pirates of the Carribean, Battlestar Galactica, Lost, etc.
You really can't compare DVD quality on an HD screen to iTunes content on the same screen. iTunes pales in comparison...
You really can't compare DVD quality on an HD screen to iTunes content on the same screen. iTunes pales in comparison...
#5
flybynight
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:55 PM
Quote:
I ripped several movies in HandBrake ... as 720 by x (where x is the height of the video the wide-screen version resolved tosomewhere around 300 pixels, usually) MPEG-4 files at 2,500 Kbps, and they looked every bit as good as watching them from the original discs.
I ripped several movies in HandBrake ... as 720 by x (where x is the height of the video the wide-screen version resolved tosomewhere around 300 pixels, usually) MPEG-4 files at 2,500 Kbps, and they looked every bit as good as watching them from the original discs.
I could be wrong here, but isn't the primary HD resolution number usually referring to the horizontal lines (pixels measured from top to bottom)? For instance, 1080p (or i) resolution is 1920 wide x 1080 high. What is the standard resolution of a non-HD DVD? I would have thought it would be something like x by 480. Or are you commenting that even at a lower resolution than the DVD it looks fine?
#6
Chris Breen
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 04:59 PM
k2: Have you actually tried the Apple TV? Somewhere other than the Apple Store (where folks have reported the demos look poor)?
#7
Machound
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:05 PM
Quote:
I ripped House of Flying Daggers at a resolution of 720 by 304, at 24 frames per second, encoded in H.264 format, and with an average data rate of 2,608 Kbps. Over my 802.11n network, with a strong signal streaming from the Mac Pro, the movie briefly froze after playing for about 15 minutes. It did so again a couple of minutes later. Im not completely surprised because I was pushing a lot of data at the Apple TV...
Sorry to break the news to you Chris, but 2,608 Kbps isn't really pushing that much data. I routinely play HDV home videos over our 100BaseT home network at 25 Mbps without freezes. It's a pitiful commentary that your video is breaking up at only 2,608 Kbps... definitely not acceptable performance. This is far short of AppleTV's 5,000 Kbps rating. I'd say it represents a significant failure of AppleTV's wireless streaming or a problem with your wireless LAN.I ripped House of Flying Daggers at a resolution of 720 by 304, at 24 frames per second, encoded in H.264 format, and with an average data rate of 2,608 Kbps. Over my 802.11n network, with a strong signal streaming from the Mac Pro, the movie briefly froze after playing for about 15 minutes. It did so again a couple of minutes later. Im not completely surprised because I was pushing a lot of data at the Apple TV...
I had better results streaming wireless video over WiFiG from my PowerBook to a Netgear WGR614 router & IOData Linkplayer2 nearly three years ago with no dropouts until I got above 12,000-14,000 Kbps. Your wireless WiFiN performance is really terrible by comparison. I wonder if your MacPro Wifi card needs troubleshooting, or maybe you got a faulty AppleTV. Do you have an inordinate amount of RF interference in your neighborhood?
Something's not right with these numbers.
#8
ukmacuser
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:08 PM
Quote:
I could be wrong here, but isn't the primary HD resolution number usually referring to the horizontal lines (pixels measured from top to bottom)? For instance, 1080p (or i) resolution is 1920 wide x 1080 high.
I could be wrong here, but isn't the primary HD resolution number usually referring to the horizontal lines (pixels measured from top to bottom)? For instance, 1080p (or i) resolution is 1920 wide x 1080 high.
Correct.
Quote:
What is the standard resolution of a non-HD DVD? I would have thought it would be something like x by 480.
What is the standard resolution of a non-HD DVD? I would have thought it would be something like x by 480.
720480 (NTSC) or 720576 (PAL).
#9
macwilf
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:17 PM
The more I read about it, the less use I can see for it in my case.
But that's me - I'd rather have a neat way to get TV on my computers but Apple can't help me with that, I'm afraid. But all those limitations are something I can't understand. Maybe it would be better if they skipped the attempts to get content on iTunes other than music? We have only that in Europe, anyway, but if this put restraints on them so they can't invent and develop the way they and we want, what's the idea then?
That is what is confusing me and makes me a little irritated with Apple from time to time. Why not go for the best? Why stop halfway?
But that's me - I'd rather have a neat way to get TV on my computers but Apple can't help me with that, I'm afraid. But all those limitations are something I can't understand. Maybe it would be better if they skipped the attempts to get content on iTunes other than music? We have only that in Europe, anyway, but if this put restraints on them so they can't invent and develop the way they and we want, what's the idea then?
That is what is confusing me and makes me a little irritated with Apple from time to time. Why not go for the best? Why stop halfway?
#10
ukmacuser
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:20 PM
Quote:
...I ripped House of Flying Daggers at a resolution of 720 by 304, at 24 frames per second, encoded in H.264 format, and with an average data rate of 2,608 Kbps. Over my 802.11n network, with a strong signal streaming from the Mac Pro, the movie briefly froze after playing for about 15 minutes. It did so again a couple of minutes later. Im not completely surprised because I was pushing a lot of data at the Apple TV, but its something to keep in mind if you rip your own movies at high bit rates.
...I ripped House of Flying Daggers at a resolution of 720 by 304, at 24 frames per second, encoded in H.264 format, and with an average data rate of 2,608 Kbps. Over my 802.11n network, with a strong signal streaming from the Mac Pro, the movie briefly froze after playing for about 15 minutes. It did so again a couple of minutes later. Im not completely surprised because I was pushing a lot of data at the Apple TV, but its something to keep in mind if you rip your own movies at high bit rates.
The problem is, you were pushing about half the data rate Apple claims the Apple TV is capable of (see <http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html>, "Video formats supported").
Maybe your wireless connection was struggling....did you try via wired ethernet? I'll point the finger of blame at that first before accusing Apple of creative marketing /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Unless their technical specs are only applicable to running video off the internal hard drive....which would be a bit lame.
#11
Chris Breen
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:34 PM
Our preliminary tests do indicate that the ATV deals better with wired Ethernet than wireless. I was calling it as I saw it -- no problem streaming iTunes purchased movies over the network, some problems with larger files at higher bit rates.
I also tested in my house rather than the lab to reflect what people are likely to see in the ATV's natural environment. No wild RF interference but it's a home with a typical set of appliances. I took pains to make sure the network was set apart from any obvious sources of interference but hardly created a pristine environment.
So, yes, YMMV.
I also tested in my house rather than the lab to reflect what people are likely to see in the ATV's natural environment. No wild RF interference but it's a home with a typical set of appliances. I took pains to make sure the network was set apart from any obvious sources of interference but hardly created a pristine environment.
So, yes, YMMV.
#12
MacTechAspen
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:37 PM
My video looks pretty good. Not quite DVD quality, but way above broadcast cable quality. This is true for videos ripped with handbrake, and those downloaded form iTunes. And this is not just my system, I have now set up 4 of my clients with AppleTvs (been a busy week). And it looks great on them all.
I have been using DVI and HDMI inputs, perhaps component is a step down,
Personally, I bought the AppleTv for music almost exclusively. I had been using an Airport Express for years, and this is a definite step up in user experience. Add a bunch of photos for the screen saver, and you have a pretty simple, effective, digital jukebox with cute graphics.
Those of my clients with extensive DVD collections are busy ripping away, but for most of them it is about the music.
I have been using DVI and HDMI inputs, perhaps component is a step down,
Personally, I bought the AppleTv for music almost exclusively. I had been using an Airport Express for years, and this is a definite step up in user experience. Add a bunch of photos for the screen saver, and you have a pretty simple, effective, digital jukebox with cute graphics.
Those of my clients with extensive DVD collections are busy ripping away, but for most of them it is about the music.
#13
ukmacuser
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:39 PM
Quote:
I am sat in front of one right now, through some fine UK HIFI electronics with the fantastic Frank Zappa blasting out. I am left wondering if I will need to pack my CDs into the loft.
I am sat in front of one right now, through some fine UK HIFI electronics with the fantastic Frank Zappa blasting out. I am left wondering if I will need to pack my CDs into the loft.
The problem is....outside of the US it's only going to be the hi-fi nuts and the computer geeks who are going to be interested in the Apple TV right now. There's no video content on the UK iTunes store, so if Apple expects a typical Mac or PC user to buy one of these boxes they obviously expect them to be proficient at using Handbrake or EyeTV. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
I hope Apple are close to announcing some kind of deal with someone like the BBC over here, because right now their video offering is a bit of a mess. The Apple site's iTunes page mentions video downloads, and the Apple TV feature page talks about playing iTunes video content, but their description of the iTunes store makes no mention of video.....because we ain't got any /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
#14
Machound
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Posted 30 March 2007 - 05:56 PM
If your wireless video freezing observations hold true, then this represents a major black eye for AppleTV. First generation growing pains aren't going to please many AppleTV customers. People expect AppleTV to "just work." Wireless freezes run contrary to that expectation. Maybe future updates will reduce the issue, much as Airport Express music pauses became less frequent after a few firmware revisions.
I'm so glad I didn't trade in my CoreDuo Mini for AppleTV. Maybe they'll get the bugs worked out enough someday that I will be tempted to pick up version 2 of AppleTV. Of course with all our HDV home videos and EyeTV archives in MPEG2 format, I'm not interested in transcoding terabytes of data.
I'm so glad I didn't trade in my CoreDuo Mini for AppleTV. Maybe they'll get the bugs worked out enough someday that I will be tempted to pick up version 2 of AppleTV. Of course with all our HDV home videos and EyeTV archives in MPEG2 format, I'm not interested in transcoding terabytes of data.
