[MacGeek1955]

I just bought a 20" Intel iMac and so far I'm not disappointed. I run a lot of professional apps like Photoshop, Freehand, Quark, ID, Acrobat and Distiller. So far they don't seem particularly slow. I'm running 1.5 gb RAM and will go to 2 GB as soon as possible. Everything runs faster than on my 5 year old Dual G4. I probably would have waited a few more months and stretched my next purchase until I had more money and the new high end machines were out, but last deadline I lost one of 3 internal drives, with another drive whining, and my power supply on the G4 is showing serious signs of tanking soon. Rather than sink several hundred dollars into an old machine I decided to go with the new iMac. Had I not had the troubles with the 5 year old machine, I may have bought a fast G4 upgrade and possibly a new video card to get another year or so out of the machine. Still I'm glad I bought what I bought. I got 3 years of Applecare. The new iMac is not something I can upgrade and tool around with. Hopefully I can get 3 good years out of it. I'm sure that if I had been using a G5 or very top end G4 I might be disappointed in the performance but so far I'm happy. I'm getting old and the neurons in my eyes have been burned out by staring into monitors for many years, so the bright new 20" iMac works for me plus I can connect a 2nd monitor to it if I need more room. Also this machine boots faster than any computer I've ever seen.

[CreativeOne]

Let's go down the hit list:
1) This is an Apple Rev 1 Mother Board - They Always Have Problems
2) Let's see - all my Applications are PowerPC OS X Native - Spent a fortune upgrading here!
3) They are giving me less computer for more money - Don't Think So
Apple should just give up on the hardware and become an OS and iPod company.
/forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[CreativeOne]

This sounds strangely familiar ... Oh yeah - that would be OS X for PowerPC ... /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[macnut222]

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3) They are giving me less computer for more money - Don't Think So

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Aside from the Integrated Graphics, the Mac mini is improved in every way (disregarding the modem). If video performance is important to anyone, they won't be buying this system - just like the last Mac mini.

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Apple should just give up on the hardware and become an OS and iPod company.

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Why? Do you want to have to buy a Dell?

[jmincey]

"If video performance is important to anyone..."
Who is video performance NOT important to? This idea that only high-end gamers or those who want HD TV care about video must be put to rest. I want good performance out of my computer in general -- and this includes a minimum standard even for so-called entry level or low-end computers.
And this video issue is not only about video; it's also about memory. Unless you want to make the case that 512 megs of memory for a modern day system is excessive or overkill, then you should have concerns about the implications of the shared memory in the Mini.
As we calculate the pricing, perhaps we should allow for memory upgrades as well as for modem (for that part of the market that buys the Mini chiefly because of its price). By the time you add keyboard, mouse, monitor, memory, and modem, the Mini is not so competitive anymore -- and yet it still has that shared use of the CPU to boot.

[mdawson]

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Also pros are often one-program centric. Once Final Cut is native, editors won't care that Photoshop isn't - video people don't work with ultra-high resolution images anyway.

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While there is a ring of truth to that statement, you are oversimplifying the pro market. Yes, There is a core program that professionals will rely on depending on their field and their software preferences/requirements. Final Cut Pro does not operate in a vacuum and there is a suite of other professional apps that a video pro will use alongside Final Cut Pro. The same goes for Photoshop and any other pro app. Professionals need to have all or most of the suite of programs that they use to go Universal, not just the primary application.

[jstephe]

I think we are on the same page here.
Regardless of the entry-level status of the Mini, it comes with a premium OS, Premium Software (iApps), and acordinly a premium price. At this time Apple is looking at a Cube like marketing fiasco, they need to put in appropriat graphics capability (ATI X300 "Radeon X300 Graphics Technology - Versatility and Performance at a Value Price" or similar) and ether take a hit on margin or rase the price by $50. . the main market for a Mac is Graphic artists (be it video or still images) this group even the low budget up and commers demand good graphics without sacrificing the purchased level of performance.
As for those that want this as a media hub, I would like to see a benchmark on Quick Time HD decoding. I know my iMac G5 2GHz has a tough time decoding 1080i trailers (Higher Ground was especially skippy), and I am not sure if this is a processor or video card issue. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Machound]

JStephe wrote:

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As for those that want this as a media hub, I would like to see a benchmark on Quick Time HD decoding. I know my iMac G5 2GHz has a tough time decoding 1080i trailers (Higher Ground was especially skippy), and I am not sure if this is a processor or video card issue.

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I second that request. I've been asking for MPEG2 & H.264 benchmarks of the new Minis in other threads. This is a media player and it needs to be tested as a media player. Let's not forget to test the audio synch, which many media players have increasing trouble with after 1, 2 or 3 hours into a movie.
MDawson wrote:

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How is Apple not a computer company anymore? Most of Apples profit and R&D revenue is generated from computer sales regardless of the iPods popularity. The home theater capabilities of the Mac mini and the iMac are simply bucking a trend in the desktop industry.

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It's not about today's Apple Corp. Why do you think Steve was invited to sit on Disney's BOD? Why does Apple's stock price remain so high during a time of transition? The new Mini is just the first small tremor of an impending earthquake. We're seeing a techtonic shift. Them thar hills are about to become mountains.
The new Mini is exactly what Apple wants it to be... not a gaming machine, not a family PC -- it's a media player, pure and simple. But let's not forget to see how it actually performs as one!

[rlavere]

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Most of Apples profit and R&D revenue is generated from computer sales regardless of the iPods popularity

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That's simply not true, according to Apple's latest SEC filing. Scroll to the bottom:
Click Here
See that? Add up the numbers for Q1 2006, and you'll see that revenues from iPods and related music services outpaced CPU sales:
CPU Sales (Revenue $m): 1,724
iPod: 2,906
Other Music Related Products and Services: 491
Peripherals and Other Hardware: 303
Software, Service and Other Sales: 325
That makes the total (Revenue $m) for iPod/Music 3397, versus 2352 for everything else. Sorry to burst yiur bubble, but "Apple Computer" is really a consumer electronics company now. Kind of like Sony...they make computers, but it's not where most of the money comes from.

[mdawson]

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It's not about today's Apple Corp. Why do you think Steve was invited to sit on Disney's BOD?

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Perhaps because he is the CEO of Pixar. Pixar has been working with Disney, has been acquired by Disney and has nothing to do with Apple beyond being run by the same individual.

[Machound]

MDawson wrote:

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Perhaps because he is the CEO of Pixar. Pixar has been working with Disney, has been acquired by Disney and has nothing to do with Apple beyond being run by the same individual.

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Do you really think Disney is oblivious to Apple's video distribution plans? Is it a mere coincidence Mickey Mouse lives in the iTunes Music Store? This is old-fashioned Country Courting.
There's a huge amount of money to be made in video distribution over the next 20-30 years and the studios want their slice. Wall Street wants their slice. Everyone (but not Bill) should enjoy the feast!

[Tau_Myx]

Do we actually know for certain that anything else besides Unreal Tournament got slower? It sounds to me like everything else sped up compared to the G4 Mini. It is possible that this is just a quirk of that one program?

[Tau_Myx]

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Professionals need to have all or most of the suite of programs that they use to go Universal, not just the primary application.

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I'll just have to disagree with you there. It is all a matter of extent. A Quad Core would probably run Rosetta programs as fast as a single G5, so for anyone still using G4s it is an automatic yes. Early G5 users probably won't see anything slow down too much, so a primary native program alone could push them into the yes camp. (3 hrs instead of 8 in Final Cut at the cost of an extra 10 minutes in Photoshop? No problem!) And the most recent high end G5 owners probably aren't in the market to upgrade again anyway.

[MacTechAspen]

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Who is video performance NOT important to?

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Pretty much anyone the Mac Mini is being marketed to.
Why the Mini instead of a cheaper PC for those that just want basic computing? Two reasons. The OS, and iLife. Neither available on a PC, no matter how expensive.
I teach average people how to use their Macs, and for most of them, this system is dandy, graphics limitations and all. Don't believe me? I just got back from an appointment where they had a Cube with only 256MB of RAM they were making an iMovie on. Never once did they complain about the speed. If they had a new Mini they would be blown away by the improvement.
Sure, I thought it was painfully slow, but I have a G5 Quad with 5 GB memory - and I do more with it than they do (e.g. 1GB PhotoShop files for our sign shop). I am also probably going to get a Mini, for a home entertainment center. I am even thinking about a second one for my wife, to replace her old PB. She doesn't do more than email and iPhoto, and this would be a vast improvement over what she has.
If you were thinking of buying a G4 Mini, buying the Intel is a no brainer.
This Mini is better than the last, and the last one was pretty good. Get over it already people.