[Macworld.com]

World of Warcraft maker Blizzard Entertainment will license the Havok 4.0 physics engine for use in new Mac games. What will this announcement mean for the future of Mac gaming? [more]

[jedi228]

This is great news. However, the problem remains that Havok is only available to the well-heeled developer.
I always thought that Apple should have purchased (or become involved as a minority owner) Havok as well as other middleware technologies. Alternatively Apple could create cross platform technologies and compete with Havok.
I blame neither Havok nor game developers for not investing heavily in Macintosh technologies. These guys have to invest their time in proportion to where the market is. Mac is 2%.

[montgomery_burns]

Is the issue that the game developers don't have the necessary Mac programming skills to create Mac games, or they do but just don't want to?
Is Apple actively courting game developers by calling them, holding meetings with them, or offering to lend them a team of Apple engineers? Or do they just say "come read our Apple developer web site"?

[hagen]

opportunity and market penetration: how many can we sell at x price. If we use Havoc, our margin is y (maybe even minus). If we use <other engine> our margin is z. If we sell the game for x2 price, our margins would be y2 or z2. Hmmm. How many games can we sell at x2?, that few? okay, no havoc.

[ronincali3002]

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Blame Steven Jobs, who has never supported gaming on the Mac platform.

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Let's not minimize the reality of perception (I know, I know, but you know what I mean). Apple has for years had to fight the perception of the Mac being a "toy" machine, not a tool for "real" business. Granted, we all know that games DEFINITELY sell SYSTEMS (see XBox). But, maybe Apple has been afraid to be seen as too much of a consumer computer company, and not get the recognition in business for which they yearn. Obviously, now, Apple has moved FAR into the consumer world (iMac, Mac Mini, iPod), and somewhat into enterprise and research (Xserve), so maybe, the move to Intel and the latest MacPro are Apple's way of saying "hey, we are moving mainstream. Give us a second to breath and we'll give you an hour to 'play'."
So. Whether or not it's true that Stevie J. "never" supported gaming on the Mac or not...we've seen that Apple, more and more is moving not just ahead of the market, but toward what the market demands (Mac mice offerings notwithstanding). Give 'em a break. They are after all, a relatively small company trying to do big things for the entire world of computing. You know?

[Nobody]

So, it is easy as 1-2-3:
1. Apple has a lot --read A LOT-- of cash in the bank.
2. Apple buys Blizzard's Havok.
3. Apple licenses it for free to Mac developers.
There you are. Overnight all games are also on the Mac!

[Schneb]

Games not-withstanding. Apple needs to come out with CorePhysics. Yes, game developers can use the tools, but physics do not have to be limited to Games. A built-in set of physics tools could help in titles such as Maya, for still image explosions in Photoshop, for iMovie and FCP effects, and more.

[Grapho]

Sure you get the games. Now how do you proposition such endeavor as profitable to your board of directors and stockholders. Just having it is not good enough, you need to be able to sell, and sell a lot so that you make the INVESTMENT back.

[DVA_Airwolf]

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I've been giving ole Steve a break for 11 years, which is how long I've been a Mac gamer. I'm tired of seeing the Mac gaming market limp along. With the iPod and iTunes, we've all seen what APPL can do when it really throws its weight behind a market. Sure, it's possible Apple could do the same for the gaming segment, but I'm not convinced. So I've hedged my bets, bought a Mac Pro, and plan to play PC games via Boot Camp. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

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Completely agree with Atticusf, I'm in the same boat... huge HALO fan since it came out (and ardent MARATHON trilogy before it); how likely is HALO 2 to reach the Fruit company's shores, not very... just bought a Mac Pro with Radeon X1900 and the rest of the dog's balls, filled the SATA drive slots and one of them will be purely for XP / Vista partition to house PC virii and the accompanying games (oh sorry, was that in the wrong order?).
Unfortunately I've accepted the fact that Boot Camp (and hopefully when it's built into OSX 10.5 next year) and joining the PC boys (hell we already have on everything but OS) on their turf will be the future of Mac gaming. Period.
We have the best of both worlds unlike them. Mac gaming is now dead. Deal with it. I have.

[jackaxe]

Considering that most peeps are playing WOW and it's availble for the Mac, I wouldn't say Mac gaming is completely dead. I have PCs also, but I haven't played games on them since my last LAN party, which was over 2 years ago. I only play WC3 mods currently, since they're quick, and I would rather play them on my HD 30".
The only new games I've bought over the past 4 years, have been mostly DS games and a few GameCube games. So to me, it seems as if computer gaming in general is dwindling. And this is also how my PC only friends feel, and why they're either on WOW, or playing a quick WC3 mod on Bnet. It could be our age though, but gaming in general has gotten boring. Tis why I've invested more in the DS and look forward to things like the Wii.
<]=)

[Peter Cohen]

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In other words, video game development is "wicked expensive," as Peter would say while shopping in Mashpee Commons.

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Actually, we say "wicked friggin' expensive" for the kind of numbers we're talking about here.

[Peter Cohen]

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Games not-withstanding. Apple needs to come out with CorePhysics.

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That's part of what Core Animation in Leopard is all about. It's mainly discussed as a layer-based animation engine, but it's also possible to use it as a sprite engine for games. I'm not saying that Core Animation would be a substitute for a physics engine by any stretch, but I just want to point out that Apple does seem to be thinking on similar lines.

[Peter Cohen]

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Is the issue that the game developers don't have the necessary Mac programming skills to create Mac games, or they do but just don't want to?

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Mac game conversion programming is a pretty specialized field, but that's not it -- it's never been about engineering resources. The game developers don't want to, and the calculus is pretty simple.
If I'm a producer at a game publisher and someone brings up the idea of doing a Mac version, I have to compare the cost of developing, marketing and distributing that Mac version (even if it's a hybrid, cross-platform release) against the cost of using those engineering resources to further enhance the PC or console version(s). Is the money better spent on X or Y? More often than not, Y comes up the winner.

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Is Apple actively courting game developers by calling them, holding meetings with them, or offering to lend them a team of Apple engineers? Or do they just say "come read our Apple developer web site"?

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Yes, Apple has developer relations staff.

[donnyb]

Has not an early version of Havok been on the mac already in Adobe's (macromedia) director's 3d engine?