[Peter Cohen]

Wow, chirobliss. I don't know what to say except a) you're being entirely too judgmental, b) you're wrong and c) you're way off base.

[tallscot]

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The release of new gaming consoles has Peter Cohen musing about the Mac's role in the gaming world. And he concludes that the Mac remains a great form of entertainment that won't be retired just because there are some shiny new boxes on the shelf at Best Buy this holiday season. <a href="http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/gameroom/2006/11/console/index.php">[more]</a>

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Peter, your reasons for using a computer over a console are pretty weak, no offense. Basically it boils down to this -- I need my computer for certain things and it's convenient to also have a game on it sometimes when I don't have access to a superior console. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
The whole multiplayer Internet argument is now moot since all three current consoles come with WiFi. There are MMORPG games for consoles. There are social environments.
Your only argument in regards to networking with consoles is you have to pay $50 a year for Microsoft's service. I'm guessing you don't have a problem with $99 a year for .Mac. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Sony's service is free, BTW. I don't know about Nintendo's. Is it free too?
With a console, you can now purchase and download games. You can download extra content like new levels for a game you have. You can access the Internet. You can buy movies and songs and use your console as a media extender (what iTV is). The capability is the same now between the two.
Your point about how portable a laptop is is very valid, though. But how well does Quake 4 perform on a Mac Book? Personally, I'd rather spend $1,099 on a Mac Book and then $900 on consoles than spend $1,999 on the least expensive Mac Book Pro.
Think about it. A $600 PS3 blows away a $4,000 Mac Pro and the gaming experience on that PS3 is superior.
Your last argument is you like playing games in a window on your Mac so you can see iChat. I can see my Mac Book just fine as I play a console game. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
PC gaming is dead. Developers that were once PC-only now state they can't be profitable being PC-only anymore. They are all console developers now. The most anticipated titles are not for the PC.
When asking if the Mac matters to gaming you have to ask a) does it affect the industry? b) does it hurt the industry if it is removed?
Yes, it is very nice to be able to run games on the computer you happen to have. I can play WoW on a Mac and it's lots of fun. However, the Mac doesn't matter in regards to gaming. If the Mac were to disappear, it wouldn't affect the gaming industry at all. I can play WoW on a PC. How many Mac-only games would disappear if the Mac didn't exist?
Let's be real here. Console gaming is well over $10 billion. PC gaming was around $980 million last year (that includes the Mac gaming).
There are a lot of really awesome games out or coming out in the next few months that I would love to play but couldn't if I only had a Mac. There aren't any games that I play on my Mac that are Mac-only.

[tallscot]

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Oh my God!! You have three game consoles, each of you have your own computers and the way you achieve interaction is through multiplayer websites? You can't ride a train without a miniconsolehave you never heard of a book? You can't do your work without playing a game? I hate to criticize someone's family life but you did mention how you relate to each other.
Man, get a life, and while you are at it grow up. Adults don't spend their lives playing computer games, if they are parents they spend their time parenting. You are not doing your children any favours. Do they ever read a book (that isn't a school assignment?) I'm sure you play ball, go for walks, go swimming, camping. You do don't you, come on reassure me. The real world is a far more interesting place than you seem to realize, and you need to do your bit to ensure that your kids don't think the neighbours are the people on the other end of the modem.
I expect I'm going to take some serious hits from the gaming masters but that only proves my point. Life is outside, go grab it.

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Yeah, playing World of Warcraft on your laptop under a tree is great!

[Peter Cohen]

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I don't know about Nintendo's. Is it free too?

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Yes.
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Your point about how portable a laptop is is very valid, though. But how well does Quake 4 perform on a Mac Book? Personally, I'd rather spend $1,099 on a Mac Book and then $900 on consoles than spend $1,999 on the least expensive Mac Book Pro.

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On a MacBook? Feh. It's much better on a MacBook Pro.
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Think about it. A $600 PS3 blows away a $4,000 Mac Pro and the gaming experience on that PS3 is superior.

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I quite agree. The PS3 is dedicated gaming hardware with some other capabilities. The Mac Pro is a general purpose computer. A Ferrari may be faster off the line than a Ford F-150, but I'd much rather have the truck when it comes time to towing a boat or hauling a load of lumber.
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Your last argument is you like playing games in a window on your Mac so you can see iChat. I can see my Mac Book just fine as I play a console game.

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[/indent]
No, my last argument is that I like to work on my Mac while simultaneously playing games, and there's a world of difference between playing Super Smash Bros. on my TV and occasionally looking over at my PowerBook to see if I have any new mail, compared to doing everything from a single system, alternating between tasks.
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PC gaming is dead. Developers that were once PC-only now state they can't be profitable being PC-only anymore. They are all console developers now. The most anticipated titles are not for the PC.

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[/indent]
I think you're being too harsh. Certainly the market has shifted, dramatically towards consoles, and there are a lot of very, very good reasons why it has: Increased performance of console systems, fewer vectors for piracy, a bigger captive audience, less concern for investors. But there certainly are still developers who either favor the PC first or the PC exclusively, even if those companies have diminished over the past few years.
As far as the size of the market, you're right. What's surprising is that while the PC market has shrunk dramatically revenue-wise over the past few years, the Mac market really hasn't followed suit. Certainly the number of major commercial games released for the Mac has dwindled, but the revenue itself has stayed pretty stable, demonstrating a continued demand. And the casual game market has grown almost frighteningly fast.
It's that last segment of the market where I think the Mac is bound to remain quite relevant and substantial for some time to come. There's no question that "serious gamers" have flocked to the PC or to consoles, and as far as I'm concerned, worrying about how to get them on the Mac is the wrong question -- part of it is crying over spilled milk, really. The fact is that a lot of people are buying Macs for the first time and don't necessarily want to play games -- in fact, may not self-identify as "gamers" at all -- but left to their own devices, eventually their curiosity will be piqued and they may grab a game or two from MacFun, MacGameStore, PopCap, GameHouse or Big Fish Games just to have something to do.
And there's nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. It just requires a different perspective on what "gaming" is, that's all. It doesn't have to be about creating a Level 60 Undead Warlock in World of Warcraft or fragging well in Quake 4.

[Russell Brady]

Hi Peter. Interesting piece. I think the meta-point is that relatively cheap gaming systems mean that the PC-wallahs can't play the old "there's no software on Mac" game. When gaming has by and large moved to a systems based world, there's less incentive to buy a PC for recreational use. I remember reading an article on gaming around 8 or 9 years ago and a developer said: "windows is the only platform that we're certain will be around so we concentrate our development efforts there." Who would say that today? So the move to systems has, I would argue, helped the Mac a lot in the home market by removing an objection about why you shouldn't buy a Mac. By the way, we got a Wii as well. Unfortunately it's from Santa.....arrrrrggggghhhh.....can I wait 4 weeks....never mind my 8 year old?!!
russell brady

[tallscot]

I quite agree. The PS3 is dedicated gaming hardware with some other capabilities. The Mac Pro is a general purpose computer. A Ferrari may be faster off the line than a Ford F-150, but I'd much rather have the truck when it comes time to towing a boat or hauling a load of lumber.
I agree, but this is about gaming, right? The Mac matters to gaming? I don't need to haul lumber or tow a boat. I just need to drive to work and race on the weekend. The cost of a Ferrari and a Honda Civic is less than that F150 truck.
No, my last argument is that I like to work on my Mac while simultaneously playing games, and there's a world of difference between playing Super Smash Bros. on my TV and occasionally looking over at my PowerBook to see if I have any new mail, compared to doing everything from a single system, alternating between tasks.
Agreed, but I guess it depends on what your priority is. Superior work capabilities or superior gaming. If you are at work, you can play games on a computer. You can play games on a cell phone too.
And there's nothing wrong with that, nothing at all. It just requires a different perspective on what "gaming" is, that's all. It doesn't have to be about creating a Level 60 Undead Warlock in World of Warcraft or fragging well in Quake 4.
I understand, but that's a weak criteria in regards to how much a Mac matters in gaming, in my opinion. You could apply your argument to anything that has any games at all - cell phone, PDA, etc. Are there people having fun playing games on the Mac? Sure. Is the fun they receive from some small title I've never heard of less than they would receive from a major title? That's subjective. Personally, I don't receive as much entertainment from puzzles, for example, as I do from WoW. But some other person may hate WoW and love puzzles.
I think things will get worse for PC gaming (including Mac) once every single console out there has WiFi abilities and every TV is 1920 x 1080. As it is, I can get an Xbox 360 and a 1080i TV for less than a good gaming PC with the latest gaming video card.

[Peter Cohen]

Tallscot, Russell makes a compelling argument: That the relative strength of video game consoles today actually removes a barrier to entry for many people considering a Mac, because they no longer have to equate buying a computer with buying a heavy-duty gaming system.
No one is trying argue that the Mac is a compelling primary game system, least of all me. While there may be a sufficient amount of "serious" games like M-rated first person shooters, involved and complicated strategy games, MMORPGs and such, anyone looking at the value proposition is going to find PCs or consoles a better investment.
So please, stop arguing a point that I agree with, wholeheartedly.
That said, I still come back to what I said before: The Mac remains a great system to game on, regardless. Whether that's casual gaming or the occasional "serious" game, there's plenty out there to play. In between getting work done or being otherwise engaged while using other Mac applications.

[Russell Brady]

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That said, I still come back to what I said before: The Mac remains a great system to game on, regardless. Whether that's casual gaming or the occasional "serious" game, there's plenty out there to play. In between getting work done or being otherwise engaged while using other Mac applications.

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Quite right Peter. Now will you all stop playing games and get back to using Photoshop immediately!
Russell Brady
PR Director
Adobe

[melonhed]

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No one is trying argue that the Mac is a compelling primary game system, least of all me.

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No, my Mac is for other things first...BUT...I don't miss anything else for gaming...
Maybe I'm not a true gamer, but I could swear I'm having tons o' fun on my Mac. Maybe I'm confused...
But I can't believe I'm alone in this.

[tallscot]

Tallscot, Russell makes a compelling argument: That the relative strength of video game consoles today actually removes a barrier to entry for many people considering a Mac, because they no longer have to equate buying a computer with buying a heavy-duty gaming system.
Yes, I've been saying that for a while now. Fewer people care if the Mac has 5,000 games because more people are using a console as their gaming platform. That's why, in my opinion, Apple has dropped gaming. Also, it's my opinion that this is the same reason more people are buying laptops over desktops.
So please, stop arguing a point that I agree with, wholeheartedly.
Sure.

[Dan Frakes]

tallscot, much of what you say is true, but the same can be said -- more and more each day -- for Windows PCs. The rise of high-end gaming consoles has impacted the Windows gaming market, I would argue, far more than it has the Mac gaming market, and will continue to do so. I also think that Peter and Russell are exactly right that the pervasiveness of gaming consoles has been good for the Mac platform, in general, because it's effectively removed one of the historical roadblocks ("Macs don't have enough games") to purchasing a Mac.
I think Peter's point is that while a Mac won't always be someone's primary gaming system, it's quite viable as a gaming system.
P.S. The one area I think consoles can't compete with computers: FPS games are still far superior on a computer, in my opinion, mainly because a mouse and keyboard offer much better control than a gamepad

[exnihilo]

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Oh my God!! You have three game consoles, each of you have your own computers and the way you achieve interaction is through multiplayer websites? You can't ride a train without a miniconsolehave you never heard of a book? You can't do your work without playing a game? I hate to criticize someone's family life but you did mention how you relate to each other.
Man, get a life, and while you are at it grow up. Adults don't spend their lives playing computer games, if they are parents they spend their time parenting. You are not doing your children any favours. Do they ever read a book (that isn't a school assignment?) I'm sure you play ball, go for walks, go swimming, camping. You do don't you, come on reassure me. The real world is a far more interesting place than you seem to realize, and you need to do your bit to ensure that your kids don't think the neighbours are the people on the other end of the modem.
I expect I'm going to take some serious hits from the gaming masters but that only proves my point. Life is outside, go grab it.

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What an incredibly ignorant and stupid comment! You realize that in Japan and other parts of Asia like Hong Kong and Singapore, gaming culture is actually celebrated (and has been for a long time), and that all those countries have higher life expectancies than us Americans? BTW, those people have lower rates of obesity to boot. Please take your culturally naive and ignorant comments elsewhere, like maybe outside to the landfill where it belongs.
Oh, I also like how you to try to imuunize yourself from criticism by infering that anyone who realizes you are a fool needs to get a life. Don't like games? Then don't play them. Simple as that.

[MCJ]

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That the relative strength of video game consoles today actually removes a barrier to entry for many people considering a Mac, because they no longer have to equate buying a computer with buying a heavy-duty gaming system.

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This was certainly true in my case. If I didn't have my PS2 then I probably would never have bought a Mac.
Many people (including me) have been complaining about how expensive the PS3 is but it still represents a superior value proposition to high-end PC gaming rigs (as Tallscott rightly points out).

[ladyjaye]

I have a question for you, Peter. I'm curious to know your take on the following: people usually consider FPSes as being better on the computer than on consoles. However, in the past couple of years, some console FPSes were ported to the Mac (I have in mind James Bond: Nightfire and Star Wars Battlefront). Now, I've played these games on the PS2 but not on the Mac. Do you think that a console shooter is more enjoyable on a computer, or is it better to play it on its original platform (in this case, the consoles)?
BTW, this is the biggest hurdle to Mac gaming: the price tag. Why would I pay full launch price for an older title like Battlefront or Nightfire on the Mac when they sell for a lot less nowadays on the PS2? If there were eventual price drops on Mac games, I think they would end up selling more... but I know: it costs a lot to port a game to the Mac, so it's a tough dilemma.
And just like you, I own several consoles -- a PS2, a GameCube, and several older consoles like the SNES and the NES. The main game I play on my Mac is Neverwinter Nights.