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Were attendees aware of the Q&A afterwards so they could prepare questions? I just can't believe one of the questions was blown on Intel stickers. Do we know who asked that question?
Apple Mac Event - Live Update
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#142
trip1ex 
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:19 PM
Quote:
It's not just my preference, it's the vast majority of desktop owners.
Many consumers don't know what the buzz words are, but they do know when they are told their computer isn't compatible with a product they want to use.
If 95% never upgrade their systems, why do I see a ton of store shelves dedicated to just that? Tell that to Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, CompUSA that nobody upgrades their PCs with new WIFI ability or video cards...
A very, very, small, tiny number of people are using desktop all-in-ones.
Quote:
That may be your preference, but 95 percent of the population never upgrade their windows box, never tune into a launch like this, and don't understand what blu-ray is. This is the vast untapped market which apple is trying to hit. They honestly do not care about the hackers, system builders, and folks who like to upgrade PC's. As they stated, these are PC's for the rest of us.
Quote:
The largest common denominator is an inexpensive Windows PC desktop that is not an all-in-one. And the thing I like about them is you don't have to go buy a new computer to utilize 802.11n like many iMac customers do. And you can put a Blue-ray drive in them right now. You don't have to wait for Apple to do it. And you can upgrade the video card easily.
Quote:
No, you can't complain. Especially when you don't understand how a business operates, Sherlock. A huge consumer product company must target its products at the Largest Common Denominator of customers, in order to sell a lot of product, in order to generate money, in order to keep operating. If that means you don't get nine Firewire 800 ports and a 1GB user replaceable Radeon card in your new iMac, too bad: The World Does Not Revolve Around Your Needs. You should've learned this around age 23.
No, you can't complain. Especially when you don't understand how a business operates, Sherlock. A huge consumer product company must target its products at the Largest Common Denominator of customers, in order to sell a lot of product, in order to generate money, in order to keep operating. If that means you don't get nine Firewire 800 ports and a 1GB user replaceable Radeon card in your new iMac, too bad: The World Does Not Revolve Around Your Needs. You should've learned this around age 23.
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Yes, the announcement of new iMacs is indeed the Darkest Day in Apple History. Every person who is responsible for this abomination should commit suicide. I hate Apple. I hate my mommy.
All you whiners need to go talk to your parents and find out why you weren't given more love.
We're potential customers. We life in a free-market capitalist society. We can complain all we want. Yes, the announcement of new iMacs is indeed the Darkest Day in Apple History. Every person who is responsible for this abomination should commit suicide. I hate Apple. I hate my mommy.
All you whiners need to go talk to your parents and find out why you weren't given more love.
The largest common denominator is an inexpensive Windows PC desktop that is not an all-in-one. And the thing I like about them is you don't have to go buy a new computer to utilize 802.11n like many iMac customers do. And you can put a Blue-ray drive in them right now. You don't have to wait for Apple to do it. And you can upgrade the video card easily.
That may be your preference, but 95 percent of the population never upgrade their windows box, never tune into a launch like this, and don't understand what blu-ray is. This is the vast untapped market which apple is trying to hit. They honestly do not care about the hackers, system builders, and folks who like to upgrade PC's. As they stated, these are PC's for the rest of us.
It's not just my preference, it's the vast majority of desktop owners.
Many consumers don't know what the buzz words are, but they do know when they are told their computer isn't compatible with a product they want to use.
If 95% never upgrade their systems, why do I see a ton of store shelves dedicated to just that? Tell that to Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, CompUSA that nobody upgrades their PCs with new WIFI ability or video cards...
A very, very, small, tiny number of people are using desktop all-in-ones.
Well you're wrong if you think the market is moving even more towards towers. I think that's the point here. We're looking at where the market is headed. I don't think anyone disagrees that on the pc side you see ~100% towers for desktops.
Like you said notebooks are a big indication that people prefer AIO devices. ON the pc side more notebooks are sold than desktops too. Apple is merely extending that customer preference to the desktop. The benefits to that over the laptop are that you get more screen/hard drive/... for your money.
I don't think there is a big market for Apple in the mid-tower mid-price range because, again, we are moving away from that.
#143
Macdev8
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 03:41 PM
Love the last bit, i.e., from one analysts, "Is Apples goal to overtake the PC in market share? Jobs said, Our goal is to make the best personal computers in the world and make products we are proud to sell and recommend to our family and friends. We want to do that at the lowest prices we can.
But theres some stuff in our industry that we wouldnt be proud to ship. And we just cant do it. We cant ship junk, said Jobs. There are thresholds we cant cross because of who we are. And we think that theres a very significant slice of the [market] that wants that too. Youll find that our products are not premium priced. You price out our competitors products, and add features that actually make them useful, and theyre the same or actually more expensive. We dont offer stripped-down, lousy products."
But theres some stuff in our industry that we wouldnt be proud to ship. And we just cant do it. We cant ship junk, said Jobs. There are thresholds we cant cross because of who we are. And we think that theres a very significant slice of the [market] that wants that too. Youll find that our products are not premium priced. You price out our competitors products, and add features that actually make them useful, and theyre the same or actually more expensive. We dont offer stripped-down, lousy products."
#144
tomtom
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:14 PM
I am color blind. I can work happily with the prior iMacs and Apple Monitors. However, I was never very comfortable with the MacBook Pros which , in my seeing, have a blue haze. The glossy option changed all of that.
I look forward to a new 24 inch Mac.
I look forward to a new 24 inch Mac.
#145
hautster
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 04:22 PM
Alright, I was just checking out some of the reviews on video cards, and I'm a little confused. It's showing the ATI Radeon HD 2600 XT to be a better performer than the ATI Radeon HD 2600 PRO. If that's correct, why is Apple putting the XT in the lower-priced iMacs and the Pros in the higher priced? I understand the XT has 128 Megs and the Pro has 256, but shouldn't it still be the other way around?
I also read in these forums there was some patch done by ATI. Did that have anything to do with the performance of these cards?
Thanks!
I also read in these forums there was some patch done by ATI. Did that have anything to do with the performance of these cards?
Thanks!
#146
tallscot
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 05:15 PM
Quote:
Well you're wrong if you think the market is moving even more towards towers. I think that's the point here. We're looking at where the market is headed. I don't think anyone disagrees that on the pc side you see ~100% towers for desktops.
Like you said notebooks are a big indication that people prefer AIO devices. ON the pc side more notebooks are sold than desktops too. Apple is merely extending that customer preference to the desktop. The benefits to that over the laptop are that you get more screen/hard drive/... for your money.
I don't think there is a big market for Apple in the mid-tower mid-price range because, again, we are moving away from that.
Quote:
It's not just my preference, it's the vast majority of desktop owners.
Many consumers don't know what the buzz words are, but they do know when they are told their computer isn't compatible with a product they want to use.
If 95% never upgrade their systems, why do I see a ton of store shelves dedicated to just that? Tell that to Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, CompUSA that nobody upgrades their PCs with new WIFI ability or video cards...
A very, very, small, tiny number of people are using desktop all-in-ones.
Quote:
That may be your preference, but 95 percent of the population never upgrade their windows box, never tune into a launch like this, and don't understand what blu-ray is. This is the vast untapped market which apple is trying to hit. They honestly do not care about the hackers, system builders, and folks who like to upgrade PC's. As they stated, these are PC's for the rest of us.
Quote:
The largest common denominator is an inexpensive Windows PC desktop that is not an all-in-one. And the thing I like about them is you don't have to go buy a new computer to utilize 802.11n like many iMac customers do. And you can put a Blue-ray drive in them right now. You don't have to wait for Apple to do it. And you can upgrade the video card easily.
Quote:
No, you can't complain. Especially when you don't understand how a business operates, Sherlock. A huge consumer product company must target its products at the Largest Common Denominator of customers, in order to sell a lot of product, in order to generate money, in order to keep operating. If that means you don't get nine Firewire 800 ports and a 1GB user replaceable Radeon card in your new iMac, too bad: The World Does Not Revolve Around Your Needs. You should've learned this around age 23.
No, you can't complain. Especially when you don't understand how a business operates, Sherlock. A huge consumer product company must target its products at the Largest Common Denominator of customers, in order to sell a lot of product, in order to generate money, in order to keep operating. If that means you don't get nine Firewire 800 ports and a 1GB user replaceable Radeon card in your new iMac, too bad: The World Does Not Revolve Around Your Needs. You should've learned this around age 23.
Quote:
Quote:
Yes, the announcement of new iMacs is indeed the Darkest Day in Apple History. Every person who is responsible for this abomination should commit suicide. I hate Apple. I hate my mommy.
All you whiners need to go talk to your parents and find out why you weren't given more love.
We're potential customers. We life in a free-market capitalist society. We can complain all we want. Yes, the announcement of new iMacs is indeed the Darkest Day in Apple History. Every person who is responsible for this abomination should commit suicide. I hate Apple. I hate my mommy.
All you whiners need to go talk to your parents and find out why you weren't given more love.
The largest common denominator is an inexpensive Windows PC desktop that is not an all-in-one. And the thing I like about them is you don't have to go buy a new computer to utilize 802.11n like many iMac customers do. And you can put a Blue-ray drive in them right now. You don't have to wait for Apple to do it. And you can upgrade the video card easily.
That may be your preference, but 95 percent of the population never upgrade their windows box, never tune into a launch like this, and don't understand what blu-ray is. This is the vast untapped market which apple is trying to hit. They honestly do not care about the hackers, system builders, and folks who like to upgrade PC's. As they stated, these are PC's for the rest of us.
It's not just my preference, it's the vast majority of desktop owners.
Many consumers don't know what the buzz words are, but they do know when they are told their computer isn't compatible with a product they want to use.
If 95% never upgrade their systems, why do I see a ton of store shelves dedicated to just that? Tell that to Best Buy, Circuit City, Fry's, CompUSA that nobody upgrades their PCs with new WIFI ability or video cards...
A very, very, small, tiny number of people are using desktop all-in-ones.
Well you're wrong if you think the market is moving even more towards towers. I think that's the point here. We're looking at where the market is headed. I don't think anyone disagrees that on the pc side you see ~100% towers for desktops.
Like you said notebooks are a big indication that people prefer AIO devices. ON the pc side more notebooks are sold than desktops too. Apple is merely extending that customer preference to the desktop. The benefits to that over the laptop are that you get more screen/hard drive/... for your money.
I don't think there is a big market for Apple in the mid-tower mid-price range because, again, we are moving away from that.
No, people are buying laptops because they are laptops, not because they have a built-in screen and can't be upgraded (though laptops are more upgradable than iMacs).
With your logic, if the Mac Pro cost the same as the iMac, the iMac would outsell it because people actually want to have Apple decide which monitor to get and don't want an extra two cables running behind their desk.
#147
tallscot
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Posted 07 August 2007 - 05:22 PM
Quote:
I disagree completely. When you can buy a new PC for less than half of its parts bought seperately, and get a new keyboard, mouse and monitor with it, why would you upgrade. I agree that 95 percent of users do not use AIO machines, but that is because of the brainwashed sales folks telling the customers that they can upgrade this and that when they are looking at PCs.
In todays world, the new salespeople are smarter if they don't want the customers coming back at them in a month or two. iMacs are an easy sell. I spoke with a sales manager in Futureshop (Best Buy) and he said they couldn't keep iMacs in the store at Christmas because they were simple to use, worked out of the box and required no set up.
I do neighbourhood support and I can tell you from experience that most of them do not even know how to find out what version BIOS is in their windows machine. These are the people I am talking about, even half of the executives here have absolutely no idea how a computer works.
In your world, there may be a lot of folks upgrading computers, but in my world, as long as it does what they need it to do and their teenage kid is happy, they are happy. Heck, most of them buy a new computer because their old one has become so full of junk that it slows down to a crawl and they get rid of it and buy a new one from Dell for 599.00 which is cheaper than buying a good video card and hard drive. Heck I can get a core 2 duo machine from Futureshop cheaper than i can buy the CPU and motherboard so why bother.
A
I disagree completely. When you can buy a new PC for less than half of its parts bought seperately, and get a new keyboard, mouse and monitor with it, why would you upgrade. I agree that 95 percent of users do not use AIO machines, but that is because of the brainwashed sales folks telling the customers that they can upgrade this and that when they are looking at PCs.
In todays world, the new salespeople are smarter if they don't want the customers coming back at them in a month or two. iMacs are an easy sell. I spoke with a sales manager in Futureshop (Best Buy) and he said they couldn't keep iMacs in the store at Christmas because they were simple to use, worked out of the box and required no set up.
I do neighbourhood support and I can tell you from experience that most of them do not even know how to find out what version BIOS is in their windows machine. These are the people I am talking about, even half of the executives here have absolutely no idea how a computer works.
In your world, there may be a lot of folks upgrading computers, but in my world, as long as it does what they need it to do and their teenage kid is happy, they are happy. Heck, most of them buy a new computer because their old one has become so full of junk that it slows down to a crawl and they get rid of it and buy a new one from Dell for 599.00 which is cheaper than buying a good video card and hard drive. Heck I can get a core 2 duo machine from Futureshop cheaper than i can buy the CPU and motherboard so why bother.
A
Your argument has nothing to do with being able to choose which monitor I want and having expansion slots.
Anyone who argues against expansion slots has no credibility with me at all. None. Expansion is better than no expansion.
Plugging in a monitor is not difficult. It's very easy.
Like I said already, the idea that nobody is upgrading their computers is ludicrous and contradicted by the sheer volume of peripherals and cards and RAM and drives that are sold off the shelves of brick-and-mortar retailers and online retailers.
I'm not talking about radical mobo replacement either. I'm talking about spending a few bucks and having gigabit ethernet, or 802.11n, or a better GPU.
This is very simple - Apple doesn't want you to upgrade your system. They'd much rather sell you a new system than have you pay someone else for a card. You want a bigger monitor than the 17" one built into your iMac? Buy a new iMac! Ugh.
#149
Luke_Macwalker
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 02:47 AM
Quote:
Funny, isn't it. Pro snobs said CRTs were better than LCDs for photos. But CRTs are glossy. Now LCDs have glossy screens, just like CRTs, and now pro snobs say glossy can't work. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Funny, isn't it. Pro snobs said CRTs were better than LCDs for photos. But CRTs are glossy. Now LCDs have glossy screens, just like CRTs, and now pro snobs say glossy can't work. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Where did you get this idea that CRT are glossy?
All the CRT I owned, starting with the Apple Monitor //, had an anti-glare coating that made them matte and not glossy at all.
#150
SteVoz
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 09:59 AM
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Dude, you need a girlfriend or something.
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I've been waiting aaaaaaall day for this. Having a 9 hour time difference sometimes stinks! I hope it doesn't disappoint!
I've been waiting aaaaaaall day for this. Having a 9 hour time difference sometimes stinks! I hope it doesn't disappoint!
Dude, you need a girlfriend or something.
i think apple could get a lot of money from ifriends - paid chatrooms, with video for sure /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
#151
moose_n_squirrel
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 12:07 PM
Quote:
Where did you get this idea that CRT are glossy?
All the CRT I owned, starting with the Apple Monitor //, had an anti-glare coating that made them matte and not glossy at all.
Quote:
Funny, isn't it. Pro snobs said CRTs were better than LCDs for photos. But CRTs are glossy. Now LCDs have glossy screens, just like CRTs, and now pro snobs say glossy can't work. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Funny, isn't it. Pro snobs said CRTs were better than LCDs for photos. But CRTs are glossy. Now LCDs have glossy screens, just like CRTs, and now pro snobs say glossy can't work. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Where did you get this idea that CRT are glossy?
All the CRT I owned, starting with the Apple Monitor //, had an anti-glare coating that made them matte and not glossy at all.
A CRT with antiglare coating is still much glossier than a matte LCD screen. I've got a CRT television and a CRT monitor next to an Apple Cinema Display, and LCD laptops that I use every day and the CRT reflections are more annoying than the diffused matte LCD reflections.
#152
2fast4DOS
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Posted 08 August 2007 - 06:45 PM
I still want an update to the CINEMA DISPLAYS!!! It's highly unfortunate that features such as Front Row are inaccessible to us Mac Pro users.
Apple- Give me updated CINEMA DISPLAYS with iSights and an IR port built in!!! Ship it with a trusty little remote as well please!!!
Apple- Give me updated CINEMA DISPLAYS with iSights and an IR port built in!!! Ship it with a trusty little remote as well please!!!
#153
eskaywoo
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 01:20 AM
It's been a long time since I posted anything in these forums.
It is my opinion that the 'It's about the Mac' = 'It's about the iMac'.
The Mac started out as an all-in-one kind of machine. And the iMac was somewhat a rebirth of the original Mac. And with the evolution of the iMac to this incarnation, the roots of the Mac have come a long way.
So when SJ introduced the iMac in the so called session that was focused on the Mac, it isn't so far from the truth (at least in Apple's eyes and historically speaking)
Many argue that the market is not what Apple is saying - that people really want AIO macs/pcs. And many argue for Apple's point of view.
I don't really know what the ENTIRE MARKET really is. Maybe no one here does.
But I do know what people around me think and what they are after.
For the past few years, the power of the PC has reached the level where the most basic of commercially available machines can accomplish what we do mostly - write, edit text documents, spreadsheets, internet, email and an occasional game. (I understand many here are extreme users, either graphically or scientifically, but I'm merely pointing to what most people regularly do)
Mostly, they switch on their computers to do their work and switch off when done. Not caring so much what is in it, what kind of cache etc. Even their monitor is not something they really care about.
Most never upgrade their wintel boxes. The huge availability of such upgrade materials and their huge sales kinda defeats this argument. But there is another explanation. There are many younger ones who are more technically inclined who build their own computers from scratch. Also there are many who, after buying a PC box, find out that they didn't get what they needed, and hence had to go out to buy - A ethernet card, an additional USB board, a new DVD-RW drive, or hard disk.
Also the people I know would love to have a smaller machine - meaning less clutter. That literally translates to an All in one.
The laptop computer/notebook computer has also evolved and improved so much that these mobile computers are as capable in the daily tasks as mentioned above, that they are appealing enough in price that they have now become a real choice for people who want a computer that does not take up much space. And they have the added portability too!
Generally, these people, just use the computer in their home/office. Not like mobile professionals. They are not focused on battery life for that fact. Most of the time their notebook computer is tethered to the desk. Like a smaller PC box - but more elegant and smaller foot print.
This could be one of the reasons laptop sales have picked up so much in the past few years.
So Apple's argument that AIO computers are the way the market is going makes sense. At least to me, with my experience and the feedback of people around me - which includes University lecturers, Print professionals, business owners and computing pros.
Well, I just hope this blasting around and name-calling would cease. Apple is never going to make the perfect device for EVERYONE. Particular people like that tend to build their own PC's. One million people have one million different ways of doing the same thing. So go figure.
It is my opinion that the 'It's about the Mac' = 'It's about the iMac'.
The Mac started out as an all-in-one kind of machine. And the iMac was somewhat a rebirth of the original Mac. And with the evolution of the iMac to this incarnation, the roots of the Mac have come a long way.
So when SJ introduced the iMac in the so called session that was focused on the Mac, it isn't so far from the truth (at least in Apple's eyes and historically speaking)
Many argue that the market is not what Apple is saying - that people really want AIO macs/pcs. And many argue for Apple's point of view.
I don't really know what the ENTIRE MARKET really is. Maybe no one here does.
But I do know what people around me think and what they are after.
For the past few years, the power of the PC has reached the level where the most basic of commercially available machines can accomplish what we do mostly - write, edit text documents, spreadsheets, internet, email and an occasional game. (I understand many here are extreme users, either graphically or scientifically, but I'm merely pointing to what most people regularly do)
Mostly, they switch on their computers to do their work and switch off when done. Not caring so much what is in it, what kind of cache etc. Even their monitor is not something they really care about.
Most never upgrade their wintel boxes. The huge availability of such upgrade materials and their huge sales kinda defeats this argument. But there is another explanation. There are many younger ones who are more technically inclined who build their own computers from scratch. Also there are many who, after buying a PC box, find out that they didn't get what they needed, and hence had to go out to buy - A ethernet card, an additional USB board, a new DVD-RW drive, or hard disk.
Also the people I know would love to have a smaller machine - meaning less clutter. That literally translates to an All in one.
The laptop computer/notebook computer has also evolved and improved so much that these mobile computers are as capable in the daily tasks as mentioned above, that they are appealing enough in price that they have now become a real choice for people who want a computer that does not take up much space. And they have the added portability too!
Generally, these people, just use the computer in their home/office. Not like mobile professionals. They are not focused on battery life for that fact. Most of the time their notebook computer is tethered to the desk. Like a smaller PC box - but more elegant and smaller foot print.
This could be one of the reasons laptop sales have picked up so much in the past few years.
So Apple's argument that AIO computers are the way the market is going makes sense. At least to me, with my experience and the feedback of people around me - which includes University lecturers, Print professionals, business owners and computing pros.
Well, I just hope this blasting around and name-calling would cease. Apple is never going to make the perfect device for EVERYONE. Particular people like that tend to build their own PC's. One million people have one million different ways of doing the same thing. So go figure.
#154
UncleRoss
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Posted 09 August 2007 - 12:12 PM
Since buying my G4 mini I have installed a second hard drive, optical drive, LCD monitor and speed boost. That's because technology leapfrogs and it's one way I can (sort-of) incrementally stay current without having to put out a ton of cash for a new system every couple of years. Jobs can afford new computers, I don't have that luxury.
The new keyboard concerns me. I hate my laptop keyboard because it is so small, plus the darned trackpad has never worked right.
But my biggest beef is with this stylish fashion thing. The titanium laptop looks great, but it is flimsy as heck. And, I swap memory chips between my desktop and laptop (I use both almost daily). I'm 65, and every time I have to get down on my hands and knees to plug a chip into the back of the G4 I'd like to have a serious "For Christ's sake" session with the trendy kids who make these things look good but difficult to use. Try to plug a chip into a backside USB port sometime while your glasses are falling off, your knees are killing you and you practically need a flashlight to see behind the tower. Good design? I don't think so.
The new keyboard concerns me. I hate my laptop keyboard because it is so small, plus the darned trackpad has never worked right.
But my biggest beef is with this stylish fashion thing. The titanium laptop looks great, but it is flimsy as heck. And, I swap memory chips between my desktop and laptop (I use both almost daily). I'm 65, and every time I have to get down on my hands and knees to plug a chip into the back of the G4 I'd like to have a serious "For Christ's sake" session with the trendy kids who make these things look good but difficult to use. Try to plug a chip into a backside USB port sometime while your glasses are falling off, your knees are killing you and you practically need a flashlight to see behind the tower. Good design? I don't think so.
