[MW Forums]

In a demonstration at this year's DEMOfall07, British VoIP provider Truphone showed conventioneers how to use the iPhone's built-in Wi-Fi capability to make calls over Truphone's VoIP network. more

[michaelb]

Apple is fairly neutral on third-party applications and they wont deliberately try to break them.
How ironic this statement is in light of the 1.1.1 devastation.
Apple's Greg Joswiak, who made this statement to PCMag, was being extremely disingenuous.
In actual fact, Apple has spent the last 2 months tracking the efforts of 3rd party developers, and has deliberately encrypted the firmware, changed iTunes communications protocols, and otherwise locked down all access to the iPhone's file system.
If this isn't "deliberately trying to break them," then I need a new NewSpeak dictionary!
Apple, imposing draconian restrictions on product use is one thing (and a separate argument in itself), but telling the press outright lies to mask your behavior is quite another.

[OM_user]

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the program is a native application that is installed through third-party application installers

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This program doesnt do anything that Steve Jobs says not to do, said Smith. Apple is fairly neutral on third-party applications and they wont deliberately try to break them.

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Huh?? Has this guy been asleep or were these statements made before Apple issued the 1.1.1 update? Because if this uses the same method that other 3rd party apps used to "install" then this ain't gonna work. Right? /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[Quoth_the_Raven]

Oh, for chrissake! The whimpering and whining over this is getting old and pathetic. Don't buy the blasted phone if you don't like the terms.

[michaelb]

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Oh, for chrissake! The whimpering and whining over this is getting old and pathetic. Don't buy the blasted phone if you don't like the terms.

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As is the fanboy defense of a company's duplicitous behavior.
You have your opinion, I have mine.
It's a public forum - expect to see opinions you don't like.

[michaelb]

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Huh?? Has this guy been asleep or were these statements made before Apple issued the 1.1.1 update? Because if this uses the same method that other 3rd party apps used to "install" then this ain't gonna work. Right? /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

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Yes, you're right. The timing is unfortunate. I think the VOIP prototype came out the eve of the 1.1.1 update, which by its very structure, contradicted most things stated by Apple, or to be more lenient, assumed by the 3rd party community.
The VOIP guy was quoting Steve's reference to the SIM unlock, which it didn't need, hence "not doing anything Steve said not to do," and PCMag's interview with Apple's Greg Joswiak, "we're neutral on 3rd party apps," which obviously wasn't interpreted correctly!
In hindsight, the assumptions were wrong: Apple doesn't want 3rd party apps on the iPhone. That may change in the future if they release an SDK, but their actions for the present make it abundantly clear:
"Develop a 3rd party app, and we'll destroy it, and put more barbed wire there to stop you trying again."

[bsfa]

Apple's Greg Joswiak: Apple is fairly neutral on third-party applications and they wont deliberately try to break them.
Well, I can only hope that he brings his car in for a mainenance check one day, only to find that not only the engine is running fine, but also that the glove compartment is as pristinely empty as when he bought the car, the ski-rack has been cut off (Car dealer: Yes, we push the car through a chainsaw contraption 1 inch from the car), the tank nearly empty from the gas that Greg pumped somewhere else, and the I heart Apple sticker removed.
That's "We're fairly neutral when it comes to other people's property" for you, Greg.
Bert
Who hates it that cell phone manufacturers/phone companies think that your phone is only your phone if you drop it in the toilet

[adobephile]

Same goes for you pal.

[adobephile]

As if you expect Apple (or AT&T for that matter) to kindly give up control of their product leaving any miscreant free to rip it apart with whatever hacks they please.
The iPhone is still a nascent product, and they're not ready to allow 3rd party apps, though I fully expect them to in the future. In the mean time, I'm glad they're locking out these jackals from ruining the iPhone's integrity and ever-growing good reputation.

[adobephile]

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Apple's Greg Joswiak: Apple is fairly neutral on third-party applications and they wont deliberately try to break them. . . .

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This could mean that Apple is indeed neutral on third-party applications. In other words, they're not FOR, and they're not AGAINST them--at this point in time. They're simply not ready to allow them yet.
So they have to do whatever they need to do in order to maintain control over the product. They can truthfully not deliberately break apps directly while doing stuff to the system which makes them incompatible.
Just as a company has the right and obligation to defend its trademarks and copyrights, it has the right and obligation to defend its software licenses.

[MacOldHand]

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Apple is fairly neutral on third-party applications and they wont deliberately try to break them.
How ironic this statement is in light of the 1.1.1 devastation.

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Devastation? Why so overly dramatic? I'd wager that those negatively affected by the 1.1.1 update amount to an insignificantly small number of iPhone users. How sad if their "loss" was devastating to anyone.

[alansky]

The iPhone is still a nascent product, and they're not ready to allow 3rd party apps, though I fully expect them to in the future. In the mean time, I'm glad they're locking out these jackals from ruining the iPhone's integrity and ever-growing good reputation. adobephile
Totally agree. The iPhone is not just a new productit's the first iteration of a whole new class of products that will undoubtedly go through a lengthy development phase like the iPod before it; and Apple is doing its best to protect its latest creation, as well it should. If Apple even tried to factor all these screwball hacks into their updates, the iPhone development team would go stark raving mad. People do have a right to do whatever they like with any product once they've purchased it. But expecting Apple to support unauthorized tampering is ridiculous. It ain't gonna happen, nor should it.

[feefer]

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Just as a company has the right and obligation to defend its trademarks and copyrights, it has the right and obligation to defend its software licenses.

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Uh,, via the court system, right? For if Apple feels it's IP is being violated, then it should defend their position in court, not via these cat & mouse games (which means nothing from an IP law standpoint)...

[rjwill246]

This is a great little program that operates out of Safari and, unlike Skype, does not need you to have your computer on. It has been great to use, but you have to have WiFi available.
It will be super when true Apple blessed or at least SDK equivalent programs turn up. Apple really is dead wrong on the issue of breaking the phone with 3rd party apps. Clearly, it is they who have done the breaking. Once hackers have worked around 1.1.1, I wonder if that will have exhausted Apple's trump cards and further blocking by Apple will be nigh on impossible. I hope so.
While I believe that Apple is legally entitled to block whatever it wants, it will find itself the center of properly aimed ire in the future if it does not ease up on the phone and make it the real PDA it could be. The current whining and angst is mostly about the unlocking part which is petulant prepubescent foot stamping for the most part and not about the demolishing of the 3rd party apps.
It is, however, quite stupid of Apple to not have embraced the 3rd party apps and encouraged them. Steve Jobs is cannot be unaware of the frustration about this, so something else is behind his stance.
There is not doubt he wants the iPhone to be successful. Perhaps 3rd party apps will have to go through Apple and the ITMS and the customers will be charged by Apple for the applications, with the iTMS taking in some of the profit. This would not be surprising. So the 3rd party developer gets 80% and Apple 20%-- or if you would believe the anti-Apple bashers, the other way around.