[Ronald_Schoedel]

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Being beholden to a telco provider is the lowest form of slavery.

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{sarcasm} Amen. Picking cotton and being whipped daily has NOTHING on being beholden to a cell phone contract you sign and agree to. {/sarcasm}
Ronald Schoedel

[lkrupp]

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Fortunately for the consumer, it is this kind of customer abuse that invigorates the competition. In a few years, this will be about as important as eWorld. I want your product, I don't want to marry you Apple.
You want to track me? Track this (|)

/forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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As Fake Steve Jobs would say..."SIOOMA!"

[TexasMacMatt]

I love Apple. I love their products. But some of their policies are as dumb as they get.
I pay for lots of things in cash merely because I don't like getting credit card bills at the end of the month. If I want an iPhone, Apple will either sell it to me for cash or I'll do without it. It's not like an iPhone is a necessity. I get done all I need done with my Nokia, thank you very much. Bad Policy.
I never liked Apple's non-upgrade policy on OS X Server - there is none! You want the new server software, after you've bought the full license for any number of versions immediately prior to the new version - pay up Bozo! Bad policy.
I don't like AT&T. I wouldn't have their service, iPhone or not. If the iPhone doesn't work on the network of my choice, I'll do without it. It's not like AT&T is a necessary service nor is iPhone a necessity. You don't think they'll be an iPhone knockoff that'll work on every other cellphone provider's network? Guess again, sweetie. They're just around the corner.
Apple may be an interesting, exciting company - and I make a darn good living off of consulting on all things Apple - but it's not the only company in the world for exciting technology.
Love you Apple but you ain't worth $200 a share by any measure of rational economics. Talk about irrational exhuberance! Talk about dumb, stupid, moronic, greedy, irrational investors who are about to lose their shirts! There isn't a chance in God's green earth that Apple is more valuable than IBM or HP or any number of other companies with vastly larger market shares and profit margins for their products and services. Not a chance.
So the cash thing and the AT&T lock-in thing are just more bad policies in a long line of bad policies. Makes no difference to me. I ain't buying under these conditions. Caveat vendor baby!

[Hocko]

Here's a few questions for all of you.
1) How many of you own shares of Apple stock?
2) If you do own stock, are you in favor of "bypassing" the terms of purchase (with respect to selling or using an unlocked iPhone)?
3) Finally, if you don't own a piece of Apple, do you want them to continue to turn a profit, to be around for your lifetimes and to invest in the development and production of neat, whizzy items for you to purchase?
Get the point? The actions of the type some here are championing (OK, let's hear the chorus, "Don't try to lay that guilt trip on me! Apple's makin' a ton of money and this ain't gonna hurt 'em!") are ultimately removing a portion of the cashflow that goes toward development of cool products such as the iPhone. It's also potentially taking money from the pockets of investors (who may, in fact, be some of the same folks who are unlocking or using unlocked phones). Yeah, you can pass this off as fanboy rah-rah ... but that'd signal that you're in complete denial.

[Macdev8]

Not any different than what is happening at rock concerts and major sporting events, i.e., on-line, internet, phone orders via credit card. Must pickups at the box office with photo ID and the card used to order the tickets.
Just do a google on "curb scalping concert tickets" and see for yourselves.

[Hocko]

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Love you Apple but you ain't worth $200 a share by any measure of rational economics. Talk about irrational exhuberance! Talk about dumb, stupid, moronic, greedy, irrational investors who are about to lose their shirts! There isn't a chance in God's green earth that Apple is more valuable than IBM or HP or any number of other companies with vastly larger market shares and profit margins for their products and services. Not a chance.

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I think you'll find that quite a few folks might disagree with your insightful and thoughtfully tendered analysis of Apple's worth ... probably numbering in ... say ... the millions. But, really, what do those morons know. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[MacGeek1955]

Walk into a car dealership with say $30,000 cash and see how easy it is to buy a car. You can probably do it but someone would be investigating you. Try buying a $300,000 house with cash. Cash isn't always the preferred instrument of exchange. Go ahead try to purchase Steve Jobs' jet with cash. In fact Steve Jobs used to take only $1 salary from Apple, but those stock options were pretty sweet.

[phdtop]

> If one analysts estimate is correct, those unlocked phones are costing Apple millions of dollars...
No no no no no! Someone who buys a phone specifically to unlock it and sell it elsewhere is obviously someone who never intended to sign up with AT&T and give Apple its share of the AT&T revenue stream. If Apple had prevented that from the beginning, then those phones would never have been bought by those entrepreneurs in the first place.
Apple is losing money on such sales ONLY if the phones are loss leaders. Some have suggested that the profit margin on the phone itself is slim, but I haven't seen anyone say they're actually losing money on them (as Microsoft is supposedly losing money on every Xbox sold).
So please, Mr. Analyst Sir, do not twist reality (however gently) just because you've fallen under the influence of the Apple spin cloud. /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
(Note: I don't own an iPhone but would love to)

[doglesby]

I think you're being a little to literal. Since the concern is tracking purchases, I'm sure debit cards are accepted (most people don't even distinguish between debit and credit cards because the transaction is effectively the same). Personally, there is no way I would buy a Mac Pro with cash. I don't feel comfortable with that much cash on me at any time and credit cards have perks.

[Philbert]

What is this 'cash' you speak of?
From fountain drinks at 7-11 to my iPhone at the Apple Store, pretty much everything I purchase is with my bank debit card. (look ma' ... no CC bill!) /forums/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Seriously, I've been using cash less and less over the years - if it wasn't for the occasional toll booth or vending machine, I'd never have a need for the stuff.

[Hocko]

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If 250,000 people out of 1.4 million were willing to circumvent perhaps the tightest locking controls ever designed in the GSM world, then it stands to reason that a big percentage would have opted to purchase an "official" unlocked version, perhaps for more money upfront.

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I don't disagree with that. I certainly would've paid more for a "carrier of your own choice" phone, but that ain't a possibility at the moment. Until something changes (either through legal means, forcing Apple to offer an unlocked version in the US, or through Apple re-negotiating with AT&T to allow an unlocked version), AT&T negotiated for an exclusive. Maybe Apple didn't accurately gauge (or, perish the thought, completely ignored) interest in an unlocked version ... who knows. Things may change based on the current uproar, but circumventing the process doesn't make the ticked off consumer right, within the current guidelines.
As was previously said, either opt for a different phone and carrier or invent one of your own that works with all carriers. To me, whining about the rules in this case are akin to buying into a poker game, losing all your money, then whining about how unfair the game was and bugging everyone to give your money back. Don't whine about the rules when you knew what they were before you bought into the game.
With respect to the credit to early adopter credits, I wasn't for that for the 8GB buyers, even though I was one of them. Given that the credit had to be re-spent at Apple, your argument loses much of its steam. The 4GB owners had a bit of a different gripe, since their product was obsoleted, so an outright credit there, I think, was warranted.

[Tournstone]

So I run down to the bank (or Kroger for that matter) and get one of those refillable/disposable Visa or Amex cash cards.

[gaefstan]

that the article states "Apple wont let anyone without a credit card or debit card in their name" (emphasis mine) and generic cards do not have a name attached to them (which is why they make such good gifts from afar). This may be an error of the employee quoted but until further researched it seems you must have a CC/Debit card with your name on it.

[AtomicPunk]

I think you missed the point. =)