[bgoodz]

Hello,
I need some clarification to some confusion I have regarding Bootcamp and or Fusion. Looks like I might have to load one or the other or possibly both in order to run a windows application WinQuicken 08 on my relatively new Imac which I have been resistant to do so far as I've been trying to divorce myself and our home network from PC's. Because of all the chaos around QuickenMac. I have been using the only network PC just for that application.

If I install just Fusion then XP standalone do I need to install bootcamp? or is it best to install bootcamp and then Fusion / XP? I like the option of switching on the fly so I can access Excel on the Mac for recording specific information.

If I install Bootcamp what are the best selections and what not to select? specifically HD partition allocation size, file type (I think I read pick NTSF) and I think I read somewhere something about file size questions related to nothing larger than a specified size. I just don't want to go to these setups and pick the wrong selections and end up have a mess on a new Mac.

If I just install Fusion does it partition the HD to isolate the XP OS? and this is where I a bit unsure. If Fusion accomplishes all this then what's the need of Bootcamp? unless you want to boot or reboot into a stand alone XP or OSx

I have a 500GB HD on the Imac and not much on it at this stage and don't want to hog it up with a bunch of PC stuff but at the same time willing to allocate enough area for Windows to function smoothly without restricting the Mac side.

After reading some posts I don't understand the need for both bootcamp and or Fusion and IF I don't need both then all the better. But if I do, I will install both.

At some point hopefully in the not too distant future QuickenMac is supposed to be coming out with a better version ( 08) and at that point if if is as good as QW08 then I'll more than likely blow off Bootcamp/Fusion XP just for simplicity.

Thanks for any advice and explaining the differences and what would be the best action for use of these two options.

bgoodz
2951 CLSS (Combat Logistical Support)
RAM Team
USAF 1969 to 1973

[Typhoon14]

No need to install Boot Camp if you just want to use Fusion. Install boot camp only if you need to do a direct boot into windows. You can, however, install the Boot Camp drivers for Windows within Fusion, and I recommend doing this, as it enables additional features in Fusion (full Bluetooth support, for example). To do this, simply load up fusion and insert your Leopard system DVD.

I do recommend the NTFS filesystem. It has better reliability and support for large files. Note that you will not be able to copy from the mac side to the Windows side (although vice-versa will work) if you use NTFS, as the Mac does not support NTFS writing. Allocation is really just whatever you think you will need. If you really just want to run that one programme, you could get by with as little as 10 gigs allocated to the Windows partition. If you think you may need to install other stuff down the line, stick with the 30 gig default partition, or if you want to install something like games, up it to something like 50 or higher. You aren't really going to damage your mac with any allocation - you will just have less space available on the mac side.

Fusion does NOT partition the harddrive. You have a disk image (a virtual disk) containing Windows. It is just like a big file on your mac that Fusion reads from. If you want to be able to Boot into Windows on occasion, but still use Fusion, you can actually set Fusion up to boot your Windows partition in Fusion, allowing you the most options. note that Fusion booting your boot camp partition is slower than using a virtual disk and forces you to boot the entire OS each time you want to use it (normally, fusion lets you freeze the image when you are done with it, meaning it takes only seconds to access Windows when you need it, and you can leave applications in Windows open)

Boot Camp has several advantages. It's free, for one, and there are also things you can only do when booted directly into Windows. For example, Fusion does not allow the Windows side direct access to the Mac video card (only a basic emulated video card) so you can't do 3D-intensive work or play modern games in Fusion. Honestly, gaming is the big reason most people would choose to use Boot Camp. If you don't game in Windows, Fusion is more convenient in most respects.

[bgoodz]

Thanks Typhoon, I think I've got it....

I can load Fusion then XP and when needed have Fusion access XP without rebooting........or

Load Boot Camp then XP but will have to boot or reboot into XP (boot back and forth)....or

Load Boot Camp, then XP, then Fusion for the most options... either booting straight up into XP or accessing XP via Fusion into the Boot Camp partition when I'm in the Mac OS.

If I decide to use Boot Camp I will select the default 30GB default and NTSF file system when loading XP SP2

Now, when you load XP after Boot Camp does it find the partition or do you point it to the 30GB partition?

Is there anything I should not select during these processes?

Excuse the basic questions please but I like to know what am facing prior to loading up and guessing. I think I would get tired of re-booting if only Boot Camp is used because I will need to access Excel to document various transactions for year end Tax purposes.

Bill

Thanks again,

[Typhoon14]

Sounds like you've got it.

Once XP (or any other OS) is installed, on a separate partition, you can use the EFI boot loader to select the OS. Just hold down "Option" at startup and you will be presented a list of all available operating systems. Simply click or use the arrows to select the one you want and click the continue button. Alternatively, you can select the OS to start in using the "Startup Disk" preference pane. Simply select the correct OS and click the "Restart" button.

The process should be pretty straightforward. When installing Windows, make sure you select the correct partition (look at the sizes carefully) so you don't delete your Mac OS partition. Also, I recommend formatting the NTFS partition again before installing Windows (the XP Installer will let you do this by pressing a letter on the screen where you select which partition to install on), as I have heard of some issues with the NTFS formatting applied by Boot Camp's partitioning.

With Fusion, consider carefully how much RAM to allocate to the Windows image, as it can have a big effect on performance both of the Mac OS and of the Fusion image. You should have at least two gigs of RAM installed to use Fusion, and 4 gigs is even better. My recommendations are, two gigs or less, don't go above 512 MB for the Windows image. With 4 gigs, you can allocate 1 gig to Windows with no issues. It is unlikely you will need more RAM than this in Windows XP on Fusion for your needs.

[bgoodz]

Hello, Ok I ordered Fusion from Newegg and it should be here is a couple days. I went to the Fusion site and printed a copy of the installation instructions to read up on and have a couple questions from the instructions and one question from a suggestion in a prior post by Typhoon.

I plan on using Fusion and XP with no boot camp, will use default 30gb and allocate 1gb memory to XP. No gaming, only doing this for 1 application but not worried about allowing HD space incase needed later.

Fusion Installation / Advanced Disk Options choices:
Allow all disk space now (select or not?)
Split disk into 2GB files (select or not?)

Typhoon suggested earlier:
"You can, however, install the Boot Camp drivers for Windows within Fusion, and I recommend doing this, as it enables additional features in Fusion (full Bluetooth support, for example). To do this, simply load up fusion and insert your Leopard system DVD."

Understood to a degree, after I load the Leopard system DVD after Fusion is installed then what? select windows drivers? and point them to the Fusion directory or will they load there? I haven't put the Leopard Install DVD in this Imac yet so don't really know what is available on it other than Leopard.

Thanks for all the assistance, it is appreciated and sorry for the bonehead questions but I want to do things right the first time instead of walking the cat backwards to untangle a mess. I'd like to keep things as clean as I can and really don't even want to do this but I'm getting annoyed by having to pull out a monitor and firing up the last remaining PC just to use one app.

Thanks again,
Bill

[Typhoon14]

Allocating all drive space will take the full 30 gigs out of your available disk space now, regardless of how much data you actually have on the Fusion image. This can avoid slowdowns associated with the image auto-expanding if you add large amounts of data (although I haven't had any issues with them). I would tend to say leave this option off, since it sounds like you are not likely to need the full 30 gigs right now.

Splitting into chunks. I would recommend using this option. It can make it easier to fix a damaged image, and it also makes it easier to shrink an auto-expanding image should you desire to do so. As far as I know, there is no real downside to splitting.

Regarding the Leopard DVD. You actually insert the DVD while Windows is active in Fusion, so Windows, instead of the Mac OS, is handling the DVD. The driver installer should automatically launch in Windows when the DVD is inserted (the DVD actually contains two filesystems - one mounted in OS X with the full Leopard install, and one that mounts in Windows and contains the Boot Camp drivers). To install, simply follow the installers prompts (mostly just click "next" a couple times).

[bgoodz]

Thanks a bunch Typhoon!
Loaded Fusion and the Windows Easy install via Fusion and everything went smooth. The default HD space was 20GB so I left it there. Assigned 1GB memory to windows. Someone said that windows xp ran a little snappier on the mac and it sure appears to, better than on a PC....LOL. Loaded the lone app that I needed (Win Quicken 08) and uploaded the data file from CD backup and kabam...worked slick as a whistle.

The only thing is the right hand numeric keys on the mac wired keyboard isn't working within Quicken, have to use the number keys on the top of the keyboard which is nuisance. Is there a way to activate the right hand keypad/

From within windows I inserted the mac install disc and it wanted to load Bootcamp so I backed out. You had mentioned it was a good idea to load the windows drivers but I didn't want to install bootcamp. Maybe that is the only way to load the drivers? At any rate everything seems to be working pretty slick.

I suppose there is no way to load some windows utility apps I had stored on the mac to the fusion/windows? other than burning them to CD the load from windows.

Thanks for your assistance,
Bill

[griffman]

Press Clear (top left of numeric keypad) within Fusion to enable Num Lock in Windows.

-rob.

[Typhoon14]

You do indeed want to install Boot Camp. This includes all the Apple hardware drivers and a utility that allows you to easily switch boot OSes and adjust certain hardware settings (Brightness, remote settings). You won't have any use for the utility, but the drivers will be helpful. Just do the normal boot camp install and everything will be good. This is totally supported by VMware - if you try to use certain features, it will actually tell you to install Boot Camp.

Moving files between Fusion and the Mac OS is easy. You can either create a shared directory in the VMware settings, or you can simply drag and drop files into the Virtual Machine window.

[bgoodz]

I backed out because I didn't want Bootcamp to partition the HD possibly since Fusion/XP is working great in the virtual state, pretty slick actually, so I thought why partition the HD with BC if no need to.

Thanks Typhoon

[bgoodz]

Thanks Grifman, that will be great.

[Typhoon14]

Sounds like a good decision on your part. I don't see any reason why you would need a separate partition for your purposes. Glad to know everything is working for you.