[charlieartist]

Good idea--but the Edsel is probably a more apt analogy...

[MacCheetah3]

Hi
Why don't they just say Beta and get it out of the way. Overall it's O...K... but I do indeed prefer XP. I dislike the new Control Panel scheme of splitting everything up. It's a mess. THe UAC is probably one of the biggest complaints. Run an installer ( "Are you sure?" ). Run something a little bit administrative ( "Are you sure?"). Even better is that the default user is now not an admin. OK...So you must run / install some anti-virus, anti-malware applications using "Run as Administrator" ) but yet I'm sure those writing the malware know how to gain admin access even while running in a non-admin user. It'd be partially OK if you had an option to "Never ask me again." It's performance is OK on some systems.

Simply...I don't find it terrible but after so many years and so many promises it is indeed a flop and the demand of swapping back to XP is a true sign.

[charlieartist]

Cheetah,

When do you think MSFT is going to admit the fact that they may need to ditch a lot of the bloated legacy support and start clean-slate? I realize it may freak out some of their dedicated IT base, but it may be the best course of action. Ironically, some IT folks are among the most hidebound professionals (may also have to do with the cottage industries created fixing known problems). Look, Apple did it with OS X...

[tallscot]

The biggest disappoint about Vista, to me, is the user interface is basically the same as XP with the seriously flawed task bar filled with truncated task buttons, MDI applications not giving you documents in Flip or the stupid Flip 3D, and the features you want easily being hidden several levels down, under Properties buttons and Advanced Properties buttons, or under one of a dozen tabs...
Anyone know how to turn off those annoying pop-ups off of the system tray? I forgot how to do that. Every single time I boot, I get a few of those damn pop-ups and I have to click on the tiny x to dismiss them.
The UI in Vista is actually worse since the Start Menu now has me scroll my list of applications in a tiny window instead of utilizing my big desktop. It's like forcing Finder windows to be 400 pixels high.
The bread crumb is a welcome addition. I guess that can't do Column view because of patents? The Folders pane desperately needs multiple panes like Column View.
Having said that, there are two features Windows does have that I wish OS X had:
1. Global uninstaller for applications
2. System Restore

[tallscot]

>Chris Pirillo who is or was a MVP for MSFT offered hundreds of suggestions to improve on longhorn. Did Mr. Sweatypits listen? NOPE.

Chris switched back to XP a while ago. Is he back on Vista?

[MacCheetah3]

Hi
System Restore is a huge pile of steaming guano. Great in theory, terrible in implementation. It mostly deals with reverting the registry but that does you squat if your problem is a corrupt driver file, ... Most professionals will tell you to disable it. And for viruses, yeah, you better have it off or they'll just keep coming back. Don't even get me started on Norton GoBack, ...

The Add / Remove Programs Control Panel isn't really universal, it simply references the installer / uninstaller provided by the developer. It's nice to have all in a nice little area but I'm much happier with the drag to trash simplicity of most applications for the Mac OS. Now if only the larger applications like Photoshop would all include an uninstaller. I've heard not even Final Cut Studio comes with an uninstaller, if true, t-s-k t-s-k Apple. Microsoft has the Windows Installer and Apple has the Installer applications as far as an actual universal installation utility ( application ) but the software developers just need to use it.

[MacCheetah3]

Hi
On that subject, PS/2 ports have just finally got to die...That and parallel. Bring on USB, eSATA, FW, and HDMI as standards. Legacy is nice for awhile to help make transitions but as much as it can be problematic, it seems much better in the end.

[aalexzander]

I have used a utility called, "AppZapper". I have not tried it on anything as large as photoshop, but it so far has worked great for me. Basically it finds everything that has something to do with the installed program and creates a list for you to see. If you agree, hit zap, and it all goes in the trash. If you don't agree, un-check the items you wish to stay and they stay while everything else gets zapped.

[tallscot]

Quote

System Restore is a huge pile of steaming guano. Great in theory, terrible in implementation. It mostly deals with reverting the registry but that does you squat if your problem is a corrupt driver file

I've used it many times where it saved me a ton of time.

Windows lets you roll back your driver to the previous one.

OS X has squat in this regard. People get screwed on OS X all the time in this regard. The user forums have people asking, "Did you update? Does Lightwave/Cinema/Photoshop still work?"

Quote

Most professionals will tell you to disable it.

Is there anything to disable? You create restore points. You use it if you want to go back to any of the points.

Quote

The Add / Remove Programs Control Panel isn't really universal, it simply references the installer / uninstaller provided by the developer. It's nice to have all in a nice little area but I'm much happier with the drag to trash simplicity of most applications for the Mac OS. Now if only the larger applications like Photoshop would all include an uninstaller. I've heard not even Final Cut Studio comes with an uninstaller, if true, t-s-k t-s-k Apple

No, Final Cut Studio doesn't have an uninstaller, and it's a total nightmare that reminds me of DLL Hell.

Go to the Apple Motion and Compressor forums and you will find people with Motion and Compressor problems and the only way to fix the problem (i've had it myself) is to manually hunt down all the files (Frameworks included) and delete them and reinstall. You have to go to a hidden directory, even. It's a joke.

In regards to Adobe, I have the suite installed from a downloaded version. How do I uninstall Photoshop in OS X? In Windows, I use the built-in uninstaller.

In these two areas, Windows is very Mac-like and OS X is not.

[MacCheetah3]

Hi

tallscot said:

I've used it many times where it saved me a ton of time.

You're very fortunate than. I've had it help a few times but that's about it. It really depends where the problem lies.

tallscot said:

Windows lets you roll back your driver to the previous one.

An OK feature and I have indeed used it but doesn't help so much if one can't boot into Safe Mode, no previous driver saved, and could be more than tedious if one has no clue which section ( audio, video, system, .. ) has the 'bad' driver.

tallscot said:

OS X has squat in this regard. People get screwed on OS X all the time in this regard. The user forums have people asking, "Did you update? Does Lightwave/Cinema/Photoshop still work?"

I won't argue this one bit.

tallscot said:

Is there anything to disable? You create restore points. You use it if you want to go back to any of the points.

Oh yes. Options are located under System Properties ( Right click My Computer or Computer and choose Properties ) The system makes automatic Restore Points during some updates and application installations, especially those that use the Windows Installer. These Restore Points can contain backed up malware, spyware, virus, ...

I'm not at all keen to listening too much to what Symantec has to say but for a reference...

Quote

Taken from 32.Sobig.F@mm Removal Tool - Symantec.com

>> System Restore option in Windows Me/XP
>> Users of Windows Me and Windows XP should temporarily turn off System Restore. Windows Me/XP uses this feature, which is enabled by default, to restore the files on your computer in case they become damaged. If a virus, worm, or Trojan infects a computer, System Restore may back up the virus, worm, or Trojan on the computer.

No, Final Cut Studio doesn't have an uninstaller, and it's a total nightmare that reminds me of DLL Hell.

Go to the Apple Motion and Compressor forums and you will find people with Motion and Compressor problems and the only way to fix the problem (i've had it myself) is to manually hunt down all the files (Frameworks included) and delete them and reinstall. You have to go to a hidden directory, even. It's a joke.

In regards to Adobe, I have the suite installed from a downloaded version. How do I uninstall Photoshop in OS X? In Windows, I use the built-in uninstaller.

In these two areas, Windows is very Mac-like and OS X is not.
I wouldn't put it that way. It's just that Adobe and Apple need to get their hands slapped for not making an OS X uninstaller ( or uninstall option in the installer like back when ). It's not the OS, it's the developers slacking. OS X is very much capable of having an uninstallation for every application, whether using their own uninstaller or built in options.

[tallscot]

Quote

An OK feature and I have indeed used it but doesn't help so much if one can't boot into Safe Mode

Better than nothing at all where you just have to go ahead and reinstall the whole OS.

Apple doesn't have to copy the implementation. I want the feature with Apple's wonderful implementation.

Quote

The system makes automatic Restore Points during some updates and application installations, especially those that use the Windows Installer. These Restore Points can contain backed up malware, spyware, virus

I don't have any malware on my system that I know of, but I use my Mac most of the time.

This point you are making is moot since we are discussing having the feature on OS X. We don't worry about malware on OS X. ;) If we did, Time Machine could bring back a file that is infected. Any backup could.

>I wouldn't put it that way. It's just that Adobe and Apple need to get their hands slapped for not making an OS X uninstaller ( or uninstall option in the installer like back when ). It's not the OS, it's the developers slacking. OS X is very much capable of having an uninstallation for every application, whether using their own uninstaller or built in options.

My view is the OS should provide the leadership. Apple does this so well in many areas (user interface - HIG) and they could easily create an uninstaller that developers would then use.

If Apple had a mechanism for this, I'm guessing that I could easily uninstall FCS and Adobe's suite right now without having to go hunt for a disc (don't even have one for Adobe's suite since I did the download version).