[grahamR]

Hi there! Hope someone here can help me.

I'll soon be getting the new Intel based iMac. Unfortunately the power cuts here unexpetedly so I was wondering if someone can let me know of a good Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) I can buy.

Thank you very much for your help in advance.

Kind regards,

Graham

[smax013]

grahamR said:

Hi there! Hope someone here can help me.

I'll soon be getting the new Intel based iMac. Unfortunately the power cuts here unexpetedly so I was wondering if someone can let me know of a good Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS) I can buy.


Thank you very much for your help in advance.


Kind regards,


Graham

Personally, I have always use APC UPS...whether for Macs or Windoze PeeCees. They have a useful "selector tool" as well.



You can get them at just about any place that sells computer stuff (for example NewEgg sells them).

[Rcovell]

I also use and can recommend APC units. I've had one for several years and it's worked without problem, just what I want.

Bob.

[dougster]

-Hi,

I agree APC has a very high rating. You might check out: http://www.cc-inc.com/clubmac/

You get a better deal by calling or email vs whats on their website. 800-258-2622 Ext 7645 Joe McNeeley or email: joem@ clubmac.com. There is also hardware not on their site that might be discontinued. We've got killer deals.

[bud]

I have a new 24" Intel iMac and I used a new APC BE550R uninterruptible power
supply (UPS) for 3 months. Then, suddenly, the iMac started abruptly
shutting off about once per day. I finally isolated the problem to the new
UPS.

I called APC for advice and talked to 2 different technicians on 2 different
days and got incorrect advice. Finally, I emailed back and forth with a very
knowledgeable technician and he will be updating the APC web page with a new
recommendation for the kind of UPS needed for Macs.

It turns out that the problem I experienced (as he explains, below) was
probably due to the transfer time on the standard APC units being too slow
to keep up with the Intel iMac. The most inexpensive UPS units with sufficiently
fast transfer times are the Smart UPS units, and they are quite expensive.
He says APC will now be recommending Smart UPS units for all Macs. However,
I think Mac prior to the Intel Imacs have fared quite well over the years with the less
expensive Back UPS units.

I have attached the APC technician's last response to me below. For the
record, he discusses my 2.8 GHz 24" Intel iMac that has a maximum wattage
rating of 280W and he concludes that I need a UPS (and a smart UPS at that)
having at least 350W capacity. I calculated that my iMac would run for 9.5
minutes on the recommended smart UPS ($320) in the event of a power outage.

--------------------------
Rationale for Smart UPS for iMac

Apple uses Power Factor Corrected power supplies in their computers. When we
size a UPS for a computer with a Power Factor Corrected power supply, we
multiply the watts by 1.25. So, for the purposes of choosing a UPS for your
Mac, we would use a wattage of 280W x 1.25 = 350W. This would exceed the
watt capacity of the BE550R which can handle a load of 330W. I will place a
link here to a document that describes Power Factor Corrected power
supplies.

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/namen.cfg/php/enduser/stdadp.php?p_faqid=888
3&pcreated=1193079387&psid=JU8cSF2j&paccessibility=0&plva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNo
PTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NCZwX3Byb2RzPTAmcF9jYXRzPSZw
X3B2PSZwX2N2PSZwX3NlYXJjaF90eXBlPWFuc3dlcnMuc2VhcmNoX25sJnBfcGFnZT0xJnBfc2Vh
cmNoX3RleHQ9cGZj&pli=&ptopview=1

However, there is another consideration. Macs are more sensitive to power
fluctuations than comparably sized PC's are. My assumption, based on the
information provided, is that the BE550R may have been having very brief
transfers to battery caused by harmonic distortion in the input power. This
type of distortion is common and is not normally a problem. But, when your
UPS transferred to battery, one of two things probably occurred. Either the
overload issue caused your Mac to shutdown or the transfer time from on-line
to battery caused the Mac to shutdown. The BE550R, being a Back-UPS ES, has
a transfer time of around 8 - 10 milliseconds. The BR units have a transfer
time of 4 - 5 milliseconds. We have noticed that Macs need a quicker
transfer time than this. For this reason, we now recommend a Smart-UPS for
all Macs. Our UPS configurator is being updated to reflect this
recommendation. A Smart-UPS has a transfer time of 2 - 4 milliseconds which
works well with Macs. So, to make a long story short, we would recommend an
SUA750 for your Mac. I will place a link to it here:

http://www.apc.com/r...nclude/techspecindex.cfm?basesku=SUA750&tab=d
ocumentation

The SUA750 is very quiet and should not have any more noise than your
current units.

The software used with an SUA750 is not supported for use with Mac OS 10.5.
We recommend using the Native Shutdown option of the Mac operating system.
It can be located on the Energy Saver screen.

[Martian]

bud said:

The software used with an SUA750 is not supported for use with Mac OS 10.5.
We recommend using the Native Shutdown option of the Mac operating system.
It can be located on the Energy Saver screen.

I don't see any "Native Shutdown option" on the Eergy Saver. Please explain.

[duality]

bud said:

...he will be updating the APC web page with a new
recommendation for the kind of UPS needed for Macs.
... He says APC will now be recommending Smart UPS units for all Macs. ...he concludes that I need a UPS
(and a smart UPS at that)
having at least 350W capacity. I calculated that my iMac would run for 9.5
minutes on the recommended smart UPS ($320) in the event of a power outage.

This really pisses me off!

I just bought a BE550G a few days ago. I was perplexed by what the ReadMe said about the software's ("PowerChute") shutdown routine (effectively, there really isn't any?the UPS simply stops supplying power after some period of time determined by a user-selectable setting, or when the battery runs out of juice, whichever comes first). The ReadMe also indicated that the software supported up to OS X 10.4.5?and I, like you, have a new iMac, running 10.5 (recently upgraded to 10.5.3). So, I contacted APC. My phone conversation went nowhere (got a kid on the other side of the world who was not Mac-savvy); I did get a response to one of 3 eMails I sent via the APC website, indicating that PowerChute doesn't support Leopard, and that I should try using Leopard's Native Shutdown feature.

I am still waiting for a response to another eMail I sent re: power requirements (a question prompted by a statement regarding the runtime for the 550 that the APC tech made while on the phone: He said it would run only for 3 minutes at 165 watts! Mind you, the UPS is rated at 550VA/330 watts, and promise a runtime of "up to 43 minutes." Now I realize that 43 minutes is an aggressively optimum estimate...but when I'm told not to expect even 10% of that estimate when operating at 50% of the rated load, well, I find the 43 minutes/550VA/330 watts claim to be a complete misrepresentation (an insult compounded by the fact that the 550 was one of the units still recommended by APC's website online configurator!)

Now I hear from you that the 550 won't even meet the absolute minimum needs of my iMac. So, in essence, I bought a UPS and ended up with an expensive surge protector (which, by the way, I already have...and, yup!...it's an APC device, costing one-third what I paid for the 550).

[duality]

Martian said:

I don't see any "Native Shutdown option" on the Eergy Saver. Please explain.

I didn't see it either, until after I hooked up my APC UPS (i.e., plugging my iMac into it, it into a 120 VAC electrical outlet, and running the APC-supplied USB cable from the UPS's data port to one of the iMac's USB ports). It then showed up as an additional drop-down menu item option in the Energy Saver panel.

[Martian]

My 4-5 year old Belkin F6C1100-UNV works great with my Mac Pro. It is rated at 1100VA and 660W. I think it cost only $100-150 (if it is still available).
I have no idea if it is “smart” and there are no millisecond ratings on it, but the power switchovers work without a hitch.
I hadn’t bothered to attach the USB line to the Mac Pro because I remembered the USB connection had caused all kinds of sleep problems with my old PowerMac running OS 10.3. and the Belkin software caused excessive activity on the PowerMac if the USB connection was removed.
But I just USB connected it to the Mac Pro now and without any Belkin software, the Leopard “Energy Saver” recognizes the 4-5 year old UPS and the shutdown settings work perfectly.
All I need now is a new battery — I don’t seem to have much reserve time, though probably the 2 modems, 2 routers, 2 monitors, and cordless phone base station don't help here.

[duality]

Martian said:

My 4-5 year old Belkin F6C1100-UNV works great with my Mac Pro. It is rated at 1100VA and 660W. I think it cost only $100-150 (if it is still available).

That is a significantly more powerful rating (twice as much) as APC's BE550.

Martian said:

I have no idea if it is “smart” and there are no millisecond ratings on it,

I'd guess that if it were "smart" (in the sense of the referenced APC models) you'd know about it: It likely would've cost you a lot more than you paid for the model you got.

Martian said:

but the power switchovers work without a hitch.

Perhaps the APC tech got it wrong re: the switching speed issue...perhaps it's more a power issue?

Martian said:

But I just USB connected it to the Mac Pro now and without any Belkin software, the Leopard “Energy Saver” recognizes the 4-5 year old UPS and the shutdown settings work perfectly.

I'm not sure what the "shutdown routine" actually accomplishes. It seems to me that all it does is postpone the inevitable loss of power to your Mac. In other words, if you're not around to "gracefully" shut down your Mac (save docs, quit apps, and click on "Shut Down...") when an outage occurs, eventually the UPS battery will drain and your Mac will suffer the same kind of "rude" shutdown that would occur in the absence of the UPS.

Martian said:

All I need now is a new battery — I don’t seem to have much reserve time,

From what I've seen and heard, most UPSs don't provide an awful lot of runtime to begin with.
though probably the 2 modems, 2 routers, 2 monitors, and cordless phone base station don't help here.
Is purchasing a new battery cost effective compared to buying an entirely new UPS?

[smax013]

duality said:

I am still waiting for a response to another eMail I sent re: power requirements (a question prompted by a statement regarding the runtime for the 550 that the APC tech made while on the phone: He said it would run only for 3 minutes at 165 watts! Mind you, the UPS is rated at 550VA/330 watts, and promise a runtime of "up to 43 minutes." Now I realize that 43 minutes is an aggressively optimum estimate...but when I'm told not to expect even 10% of that estimate when operating at 50% of the rated load, well, I find the 43 minutes/550VA/330 watts claim to be a complete misrepresentation (an insult compounded by the fact that the 550 was one of the units still recommended by APC's website online configurator!)

Keep in mind that how long a particular UPS will run is ENTIRELY based upon how much load in on it.



I am not sure where the 43 minutes comes from...the I see no such claim on APC's website for the BE550R (did not see a BE550G but did see a BE550GE). Now, this chart does show that if you only have 50 watts or 80 VA running on it, you can supposedly get 65 minutes but 50 watts is NO computer. Per the Apple specs for a current iMac, a 20 in iMac draws a maximum of 200 W of continuous power, which per the chart would be about 10 minutes for a BE550R and a 24 in iMac draws a maximum of 280 W of continuous power, which per the chart would be about a little over 4 minutes for a BE550R. And this assumes that you plug NO other devices into any of the other battery backup plugs (i.e. no additional load other than the iMac).

[duality]

[quote name='smax013']

>

duality said:

>
> I am still waiting for a response to another eMail I sent re: power requirements (a question prompted by a statement regarding the runtime for the 550 that the APC tech made while on the phone: He said it would run only for 3 minutes at 165 watts! Mind you, the UPS is rated at 550VA/330 watts, and promise a runtime of "up to 43 minutes." Now I realize that 43 minutes is an aggressively optimum estimate...but when I'm told not to expect even 10% of that estimate when operating at 50% of the rated load, well, I find the 43 minutes/550VA/330 watts claim to be a complete misrepresentation (an insult compounded by the fact that the 550 was one of the units still recommended by APC's website online configurator!)
>

Keep in mind that how long a particular UPS will run is ENTIRELY based upon how much load in on it.

Of course. But one would think that a unit spec'd at 330 watts would be sufficient to support a 280 watt iMac for some reasonable length of time (i.e., enough for the user to effect a graceful shutdown).
[quote]

smax013 said:

I am not sure where the 43 minutes comes from...the I see no such claim on APC's website for the BE550R

It's prominently displayed on the front of the box that the unit comes in?there's a stylized clock icon with the words "up to 43 minutes runtime" right next to where it says "550VA/330 Watts," which likely is meant to suggest that the unit will support a 330 watt device for a period of time a helluva lot closer to 43 minutes than 3-4 minutes!

smax013 said:

(did not see a BE550G but did see a BE550GE).

The 550G is the new version of the 550R...supposedly a more energy-efficient version.

smax013 said:

Now, this chart does show that if you only have 50 watts or 80 VA running on it, you can supposedly get 65 minutes but 50 watts is NO computer. Per the Apple specs for a current iMac, a 20 in iMac draws a maximum of 200 W of continuous power, which per the chart would be about 10 minutes for a BE550R and a 24 in iMac draws a maximum of 280 W of continuous power, which per the chart would be about a little over 4 minutes for a BE550R. And this assumes that you plug NO other devices into any of the other battery backup plugs (i.e. no additional load other than the iMac).

Yes, that's what I read as well. But again, I find that any runtime estimate?such as most of those shown in the chart?that is so outlandishly unrealistic (a 50 watt computer???) at best misleading; at worst, false advertising. And how is what might be a more realistic runtime estimate of 3-4 minutes going to make any pratical difference to a user anyway? Without software that provides a graceful automatic shutdown, a UPS with minimal runtime characteristics is little more than a very expensive surge protector.

[smax013]

duality said:

It's prominently displayed on the front of the box that the unit comes in—there's a stylized clock icon with the words "up to 43 minutes runtime" right next to where it says "550VA/330 Watts."

If so, there is nothing false about that statement. It is true...if you run a lamp with a 75 watt bulb or some such in it. I will admit that it is somewhat misleading, but I will also say that a buyer also has some responsibility to know what it is that they are buying. With the knowledge that a UPS' run time will depend on load, one should easily realize that "up to 43 minutes" is giving a maximum run time with minimal load.

duality said:

Yes, that's what I read as well. But again, I find that any runtime estimate—such as most of those shown in the chart—that is so outlandishly unrealistic (a 50 watt computer???) at best misleading; at worst, false advertising. And how is what might be a more realistic runtime estimate of 3-4 minutes going to make any pratical difference to a user anyway? Without software that provides a graceful automatic shutdown, a UPS with minimal runtime characteristics is little more than a very expensive surge protector.

Excuse me...but where on that chart does it ANYWHERE mention computer. That is an inference that YOU make. UPS devices are NOT only useful/used for computers. Granted that is one of their most common uses, but you can plug ANY electrical device (assuming it does not over load the UPS) into a UPS. I have my cable box/DVR plugged into a UPS...one that is likely less powerful than the BE550G. And considering how little power it draws compared to a computer, it would likely last quite a while.



FWIW, when I plugged in an iMac into the APC Selector (it was a G5 iMac as they did not offer the option of anything newer...but according to Apple specs it is 180 W maximum continuous power, which is similar to a current 20" iMac), it does not give me anything less than a 800 VA unit unless I specify a desired run time of 6 minutes or less.

And for what it is worth, UPS devices are NOT meant to be long running with a computer. The intent behind a UPS is to provide enough time before you loose power to save files, quit programs and shutdown the computer yourself. They are first and foremost aimed at helping you when you are ACTIVELY using your computer and loose power. Rather than having your computer do dead instantaniously, they allow you to save what you are doing and shutdown. Thus, they are not meant to allow you to continue working so long periods of time. Thus, something on the order of 3 to 5 minutes is well within the intended primary use of a UPS. This is not to say that you cannot get a MUCH more powerful UPS and end up with a system that might run for a longer period of time (which is why I tend to buy 1500 VA UPS...that and at least one system is desktop with two monitors, one of which is currently a 20" CRT...aka a power hog).



Now a side benefit is that most UPS devices can also work with some shutdown software to shutdown a computer automatically when power is lost and you are NOT in front of the computer. But that is not really their primary intent, per se.

[duality]

[quote name='smax013']

>

duality said:

It's prominently displayed on the front of the box that the unit comes in—there's a stylized clock icon with the words "up to 43 minutes runtime" right next to where it says "550VA/330 Watts."
>

If so, there is nothing false about that statement. It is true...if you run a lamp with a 75 watt bulb or some such in it. I will admit that it is somewhat misleading, but I will also say that a buyer also has some responsibility to know what it is that they are buying. With the knowledge that a UPS' run time will depend on load, one should easily realize that "up to 43 minutes" is giving a maximum run time with minimal load.

>
I agree. But few users would expect that 43 minutes is an ?up to? statement reserved for 50-watt lightbulbs!
[quote]

[quote name='smax013']
>

duality said:

Yes, that's what I read as well. But again, I find that any runtime estimate—such as most of those shown in the chart—that is so outlandishly unrealistic (a 50 watt computer???) at best misleading; at worst, false advertising. And how is what might be a more realistic runtime estimate of 3-4 minutes going to make any pratical difference to a user anyway? Without software that provides a graceful automatic shutdown, a UPS with minimal runtime characteristics is little more than a very expensive surge protector.

Excuse me...but where on that chart does it ANYWHERE mention computer. That is an inference that YOU make. UPS devices are NOT only useful/used for computers. Granted that is one of their most common uses, but you can plug ANY electrical device (assuming it does not over load the UPS) into a UPS. I have my cable box/DVR plugged into a UPS...one that is likely less powerful than the BE550G. And considering how little power it draws compared to a computer, it would likely last quite a while.

APC?s entire section on UPS products is heavily oriented towards computers?not televisions, radios, or 50-watt lightbulbs, none of which folks would have much of a need to ?protect? during a power outage.
[quote]

smax013 said:

FWIW, when I plugged in an iMac into the APC Selector (it was a G5 iMac as they did not offer the option of anything newer...but according to Apple specs it is 180 W maximum continuous power, which is similar to a current 20" iMac), it does not give me anything less than a 800 VA unit unless I specify a desired run time of 6 minutes or less.

True. And I?m sure that?s what bud (above) understood when he bought his unit. And, quite frankly, so did I. And I wasn?t all that concerned about the precise amount of runtime I could expect, as I also expected that the PowerChute software (touted as ?Automatic Shutdown Software?) would be compatible with my OS (but it?s not), as well as provide a ?graceful? shutdown in the event of a power outage (but it doesn?t?regardless of the OS).
>

smax013 said:

And for what it is worth, UPS devices are NOT meant to be long running with a computer. The intent behind a UPS is to provide enough time before you loose power to save files, quit programs and shutdown the computer yourself. They are first and foremost aimed at helping you when you are ACTIVELY using your computer and loose power.

>
Tell that to bud (above), who was told by the APC tech that he needs to buy a ?Smart UPS? rated at 500 watts/750 VA and designed to protect networks and servers ( not desktop machines), at 5 times the cost of the 330 watt/550 VA unit he just purchased, to ?protect" his 280 watt iMac.

smax013 said:

Rather than having your computer do dead instantaniously, they allow you to save what you are doing and shutdown. Thus, they are not meant to allow you to continue working so long periods of time. Thus, something on the order of 3 to 5 minutes is well within the intended primary use of a UPS. This is not to say that you cannot get a MUCH more powerful UPS and end up with a system that might run for a longer period of time (which is why I tend to buy 1500 VA UPS...that and at least one system is desktop with two monitors, one of which is currently a 20" CRT...aka a power hog).

Let?s put it in perspective: I dare say, no one expects the mpg ratings coming out of Detroit to be accurate predictors of actual on-the-road auto performance. However, I doubt that folks would find a car advertised as getting ?50 mpg in highway driving? to be anything near a reasonable claim if the car only gets 5 mpg in ?real life? on-the-road use.
[quote]
Now a side benefit is that most UPS devices can also work with some shutdown software to shutdown a computer automatically when power is lost and you are NOT in front of the computer. But that is not really their primary intent, per se.
...and APC leads folks to believe (incorrectly) that the PowerChute software it includes with its products serves such a purpose.

Do you know of any freeware/shareware that provides ?graceful shutdown? during a power outage? If so, then the reasonableness (or lack thereof) of APC?s runtime estimates would be almost moot.