[Macworld]

Post your comments for Opening up Psystar's Open Computer here

[lwdesign]

It's kind of neat that Open Computer is actually producing Mac clones, but with all the figure-out and tweaking, updates and missing features, wouldn't it be easier and much less expensive to just buy a Mac? My time is valuable (I bill out at $200/hr) so the time spend on doing all this stuff to just have the Mac do what it's supposed to would cost me a fortune.
After all, isn't the reason we're Mac users because "it just works"? The biggest advantage the Mac has always had over Windows is that the hardware and software have historically been very stable, with very little downtime due to hardware or software problems. So, why would anyone want to get one of these computers, thereby eliminating the "it just works" functionality that is the hallmark of Apple, Inc.?
I can see this as a hobby project but not as a serious Mac that you would use to get actual work done. For the price of an Open Computer you could get a fully functional Mac mini.

[shadash]

Since video cards are the big way that Apple distinguishes its products...
The big difference between a regular Mac and this is the video card and the ease of changing it out to upgrade in the future.

[Grapho]

I agree with you. To me it makes no sense ether. But that is probably because we make our living through our Macs. Their is simply no way I would trust this hardware to make my living. I just upgraded to a MacPro, it basically paid for it self the fist 15 day I had it.

Cables getting stuck on fans? No keyboard startup key magic? No upgrading to 10.5.3? This simply has to many negatives for my taste, but some like it cheep, and you always get what you paid for.

[RacerXcar]

I agree with many of the comments here with one notable exception and missed point...

Not only hobbyists will buy this clone, so also will gamers because Apple does not offer such a product that can play the latest games well with the possible exception of the highest end iMac and the Mac Pros, both way above the price range of this Mac, which allows you to swap out to the best gamers' video card you can find practically!

If Apple offered this mythical mid-range slightly expandable gamers type tower, Psystar would be out of business like yesterday. But alas, Steve Jobs is stubborn and refuses to offer such a Mac, so I expect Psystar to sell more of these than people think.

I'm even thinking of buying one myself, of course not as my everyday work computer, but just for games, both Windows and Mac. It seems like the perfect machine for this purpose, with a little hassle of course, but how ELSE can you get such a Mac?

Earth to Steve Jobs...

[corpmac]

Why isn't anyone doing a price comparison? It looks to me as if a Mac mini beats a similarly-specced Psystar machine - why would anyone want to pay a premium for a machine that is barely supported now, uses unlicenced firmware, and from whom support will end in a hurry once the inevitable Apple lawsuit decends?

The only viable explanation is that they have a real product to launch in the future. And they've taken the entire Mac press and bloggers with them on this. Unless someone actually calls bullshit here, they've gamed you.

[hautster]

I can think of a couple of reasons not to compare the Open Computer with a mini. First, as the article pointed out, you can add a dedicated graphics card to it, but you cannot on the Mini. That reason alone gives a huge advantage to the Open Computer. If you're not sure about that, take a look at any of Macworld's speed test between a Mini and an iMac, and the numbers show a clear advantage to machines with the graphics card.

The second reason is the parts used between the two. You are getting a regular desktop hard drive on the OC. The Mini can only fit a laptop HD with it. That limits the size of the drive and generally, the performance.

The third reason is with the OC, you can put up to 4 gigs of ram in it, whereas you're limited to 2 with the Mini.

Of course, with the Mini, you do have that awesome form factor that the OC would never touch, as well as the lack of hassles using a bona fide Mac.

[roscoe]

this just shows there is a demand for a midi tower from apple that is easy to expand, why is Apple so against building one themselves?

[anothersite]

Thanks for getting an Open Computer for testing.
I understand the mid tower Mac requests that folks have. I wish Apple would come out with one for all those folks looking for one, even though my days of wanting one are long since past. I want my computer to be a toaster, as my wife has put it. I just want it to work, and I don't want to have to upgrade computer hardware, ever.
I am going to throw out an idea that I am sure has been written somewhere, but I have not read it. Do you think that Apple is reluctant to put out a mid tower, because Mac Pro users will go for the high end limited graphics card variability, etc. while mid tower users would be all over the map with what they were trying to put in the mid tower, especially the "switchers"? Put that way, for the mid tower Mac sounds like a lot of work for a limited market, because let's face it, most desktop users will still be happier with the iMac. And remember, more and more people are buying laptops, not desktops, as their sole computer.

[Martian]

I think a mid price Mac tower would sell in huge numbers — but from where would these customers come from in this almost zero sum game?
# Additional converts from Windows…a big big win for Apple.
# iMac customers…Apple breaks even both on profit and on market share.
# Mac Pro customers…here Apple loses considerable markup and only breaks even on market share.
# Mac laptop customers…probably not significant.
# Additional sales to Mac laptop owners who would be enticed into having an additional computer in the household… another big big win for Apple.
Who of us knows where these sales would come from? I for one am very happy with my Mac Pro, but I probably would have bought a tower at the iMac level if it were available.

[lwdesign]

this just shows there is a demand for a midi tower from apple that is easy to expand, why is Apple so against building one themselves?

-----------

This question has been asked thousands of times over the last few years. During the pre-Jobsian times, the Mac lineup became dispersed with many different models. When Steve came back he simplified the Mac lineup. I'm thinking that there is concern that a midi tower would eat up sales from both the iMac and the Mac Pro, which it would, but I think it would offer a broad range of consumers the exact Mac many have been looking for.

The midi tower should be about half the size of the current Mac Pro, have a separate AGP or PCI video card (replaceable), enough slots for up to 4GB of RAM, at least 2 additional PCI slots, space for 2 internal 3.5" hard drives, a Superdrive, and a range of dual and quad core CPUs. The stock video card should be able to run any of Apple's 20", 23" and 30" monitors. It should cost about $200 than a similarly equipped iMac (depending on configuration of course).

This would be, in my humble opinion, the perfect Mac for at least 50% - 70% of users who want a desktop Mac but don't want the all-in-one iMac.

[jpmhughes]

Len,
As usual you are right on the money here.
A mid tower would eat up iMac and Mac Pro sales.
After all, sales are good, why rock the boat right?

Most people don't really seem all that concerned about upgrading their machines.
And no, I don't include the members of this forum in the "most people" category.

It will be interesting to see how Psystar's sales go.
I think this may be one of the reasons Apple has not commented on Psystar yet.
The wait and see approach..

Jim

[BradPDX]

From Apple's point of view, a mid tower doesn't make sense for the reasons stated. The iMac is plenty of power for most, and the Pro is all business. The lineup is pretty good for the marketplace, as evidenced in sales.
That said, I really don't believe that there are really all that many Mac users who really give much of a damn about games, despite the vocal nature of the crowd. While that market appears hot now, it is guaranteed to decline for good reasons: computers are general purpose devices and games are better addressed with consoles. Over time, I expect PC-based gaming to go away except for low level, simple games, especially as mobile computing begins to dominate.
I'll wager Steve Jobs thinks so, too.

[CheeseHead]

I would be happy with an iMac with an upgradeable video card and double the memory to 8gig. I am fine with adding external hard drives since it would take up less space than a mini tower anyway.